SENKOSAM

True, both are Octopus hooks, the top one also called a Mosquito hook by Owner. Gamakatsu also sells a drop shot/split shot hook which looks like a Mosquito or Octopus hook but which is not labeled Octopus. Thanks for the correction. (Circle hooks don't do it for me.)

Which has a better hook up ratio? Which is easier to set the hook?

Let me condense The Roosters reasons: Too expensive/ don't look worth the cost. Because they're ugly/ unnatural looking / can't stand the looks of that pink color or red crankbaits except : red based plastic worms. I'll throw those all day I'm a bait bigot of sorts. Funny though, I share many of those same reasons including being a bait bigot - until someone proves the lure/color/ presentation useful by catching fish in my presence. Seeing is believing and I can't tell you how many lures/colors/ presentations I've added to my collection by being seeing it. (Doesn't mean I'll remember or continue using them... lol)

Own a bunch buying clearance items, but never had luck with them. Anyone use them or have good rigging ideas?

Won't it cause line twist on a horizotal retrieve with no weight ? Is the 3.5" size too large for smallmouth? Mad Man Craw's plastic I thought was too much like rubber - too stiff - and the claws extended further. Still a good bait?

That's the one. Thanks all. I'll be sure to use them as suggested.

I bought some bags of these in different colors and if I remember correctly did catch a bass or two on them about three years ago. They stopped working after that and now they collect dust. I originally used a long shank, wide gap Cabela's jighead with the head inside (like that for a tube). I tried a weedless football head with the head outside, but the weed guard seemed to get in the way. The lures are hollow and the only real action is provided by the claws - kind of like the real thing when a craw swims backwards. My questions are: Has anyone ever been successful using them? and Any suggestions for rigging? Thanks

1. lure versatility 2. lure does better in specific situations (seasonally, depth, water conditions, certain presentations, etc.) 3. lure is fun to use and catch fish on 4. many in my club use them (but only the first year) 5. the pros use it to win tournaments (NOT!) 6. it caught a 7 lb bass five years ago (though not much since) and is bound to be successful again (wishful thinking) 7. a lure's color and action just feels right when being fished and confidence in it stays high when it catches bass on different outings 8. I've had a chance to see it move and worked underwater (video); seeing is believing when you see a lure attacked by a bass (You Tube, Doug Hannon and In-Fisherman videos are great!) 9. I'm a sucker for clearances and good sales 10. advertising I ignore but I respect KVD and Denny Brauer (met them both)

There were a lot of fishing shows in the early 70's I watched when I was living in Texas that pushed a lot of products, some good, some not so good. But one thing the promotions were good for was to get people to start experimenting with artificials. This topic was for anyone, experienced or not, to be skeptical when claims are made on TV or in print and to pay attention to fellow anglers that input about this or that tackle, kind of act like a Consumer Reports for bass anglers. IMO misleading claims should be exposed regardless of the sponsor or media and not allowed to go unchallenged. Money can be made honestly in this sport whether it be winning tournaments or selling products and the pros don't get a pass. Again, KVD is an example that all should pattern themselves after or face derision on the many forums that discuss fishing products. (I edited out the comments about RM.)

We should put all pros in the same category as those that have mislead in the past and taken advantage of the newbies and fisherman wives that needed to buy their husbands a gift. I've always thought KVD a class act and believe that most anything he puts his name on, he's endorsed because he personally helped ensure its quality. An all American boy not corrupted by success, ego or greed IMO. But, if he ever did start mass producing crap, word would spread fast and his rep would suffer. You can tell that a pro has something of value to say that we can use when he only mentions the product name a few times or not at all. When I spoke to KVD at a seminar, he never suggested I buy anything but answered my and others questions to our satisfaction. People like KVD want to be liked and respected on or off the water because he is and has been the poster child of integrity and class. Roland Martin is a different story. Not a nice man according to others and from my own personal experience with him at a BASS invitational where he kept to himself. He shot holes in his reputation early in his career after he started losing more tournaments then he won. But once he started putting out the Helicopter Lure and his crap economy line of jerkbaits and crankbaits, he was done in my mind. I couldn't even stomach watching him on TV. (I did buy the willow leaf spinnerbait he won with on the 3 day tournie on the Hudson River and did really well with it.) It doesn't hurt to take each pro separately and give him a chance to screw up before judging him or the products he hawks. But once is all it takes in my mind to denigrate the pro's image and integrity. There are more than a few.

I pour most of my own plastics for less than a dime apiece and build my won spinnerbaits and jigs for less than a buck fifty; I'll put them up against any brand. Granted, not all cheap copies can hold up against some of the better made sponsored lures, but sometimes they do. Many of the good quality reels that I own made within the last ten years, do fine and I can't see replacing them because of the latest hype. I also have many Quantum Torsion rods from Wally World in different actions and size that match the kind of fishing I do and they were less than $30 each. A buddy of mine bought a Woo Daves rod for over $100 from Woo Davea at a seminar and it broke first time he used it as did the replacement. (He wouldn't give me the time of day unless I bought something from him.)

Question: In BassMaster magazine there is a section A Day On the Lake with...which follows a pro around using various brand name lures to catch fish. Sometimes they work, sometimes not, but one thing sticks out with these articles and most other articles about tackle - they don't claim the baits are the only ones an angler should buy, just that the baits, line, rod and reels mentioned were chosen for the task and that body of water. I would think that after years of reading into articles and videos information that wasn't included such as versatility, cost vs. quality, and comparable products, one would automatically think, what other products can do the same thing if those features mentioned are even important. For example, I hold Denny Brauer in high regard and used to watch him religiously. Though he pushed Strike King's Rage Tail Craw in the latest Bass Times, I read his reason why and from my own experience have to agree. Denny consistently offers information, for the most part, I can count on. The rest is up to us Missourans - Show Me (I wasn't born yesterday). Granted, Shaw Grigsby, Doug Hannon and Roland both lost credibility putting their names on substandard lures (Shaw's plastics are garbage), but worse is the suggestion that what they're pushing is versatile at all depths and in all cover/structure areas. The Bango Minnow does have its uses, but is nowhere near as versatile as the video claims. (I did pick up many good tips from Hannon's spot on TV, especially his underwater videos.) It's kind of like buying a used car - if you don't go under the car or the hood, you can't blame the salesman and anglers should note what information is missing in any article or video as part of the misinformation that is meant to convince us to buy stuff we sometimes end up storing or giving away. But on the other hand a lousy angler may not have what it takes or the time to effectively use a sponsored lure under the conditions it was used or the best presentation of the lure. You can't blame the messenger for that!

The problem with the lowland lake I mentioned has a problem of too little deeper vegetation because of the weed eating carp stocked a few years ago. If they aren't shallow (which is the case post spawn) then they are deep but there is no weed line to fish anymore. The large lowland reservoir lakes are always easy to figure out, but many have so much structure and cover types to chose from, you can't but help to get more than a limit. The higher elevation lakes in the mountains are also part of the reservoir system but there are far more rocky bottoms and drops than weed beds. They are tough to fish and are known mostly for large lake trout. Greenwood Lake, (NY/NJ) border lake, is many miles long, fished heavily by clubs and very tough to fish post spawn. One main reason is that the home owners destroy every bit of weeds near there properties in spring after the spawn and like my like local lake (the first one mentioned), weedlines that used to be one of the most dependable cover to take fish out of are gone most of the year. This lake has large shallow flats but also depths of over 40' in the channel. It's a mystery.

My local lake has weeded flats around 40% of the shoreline, a few points that drop to 13', two humps surrounded by 8' and average depth of only 8'. It's an oblong lake - 2 miles from north to south and 1.5 miles east to west. Once the spawn is over and fishing pressure increases in spring, the fish hide and are tough to get during the day from July to mid August. Being that it is a shallow, basically flat-bottom lake with no channels, steep drops or steps, by comparison are mountain lakes or any lakes with depths 30 or more feet more productive because of the varied structure and greater depth?

The show where I first saw them used had KVD rig them on a C-rig.

Going through my stash and I came across these baits which I never caught anything on and wasn't sure how to use them. Anyone like them and if so how did you rig and use them? (g.d. those clearance bins!! )

Looking at the photos makes me want to chose which ones to try next outing rather than decide by going through box after box. They also bring back memories of which ones caught fish even though maybe not two years in a row.

You know how you used to look forward to receiving catalogs from BP or Cabelas in January? (I don't anymore). You know how guilty it makes you feel when you have to look at all those storage containers filled with old baits you gave up on over the last decade or more? Well here's the solution to getting interested in using old lures that have potential. Make a photo catalog of each bait design and colors. Have a separate folder for soft plastics and a second for hard baits. After a week or so review the pictures and try to remember what attracted each design/color when you first bought them. You may find the lure attractive in the sense that all you've read, watched on tv or seen used a certain way, may have distinct possibilities for this or that lure. Leafing through some new and old BassMaster magazines got me thinking about the lures they used in the articles that might fit the bill without having to buy more just because a specific company's lure was mentioned. The nice thing as that you don't have to pay S/H or tax! LOL

I saw a Shaw Grigsby video of him using them (fluke) on a drop-shot rig and the action was impressive. Of course I don't know how much editing was done of him catching 2-5 lb bass on the rig, but I liked fast upward floatation.

I was going through my old plastics and noticed I still had 3X material Strike King lures: Flukes, Trickworms and lizards. I used them a few times for LM and found them a nuisance in weeds. You couldn't use them weightless because of the super floatation (like a Zoom Fluke) and they'd melt any normal plastic it came in contact with. I still see them sold but don't think I'll buy again unless I can find a use for them. At least I bought them cheap in a clearance bin. Anyone use 3X baits - the ones that stretch to arms length and are super buoyant?

Minnow beat me to it except I use flexible and cheaper floral arrangement wire thinner than what is pictured). form loop ( I make and L to stick into the plastic - optional) cut off jighead with coil attached: swimbait hook with rig attached

fishingskirts or lurecraft.com - both have comparable service and prices

I'm not sure it was useful, but I documented water and air temp water clarity (clear, muddy, algae stained, pea soup) water height (flood or very high, droping, low, tidal) weather (sunny, cloudy, rain, snow, fog, wind in mph, pre or post cold front) best structure (rocks, humps, points (compass direction), flats, weed beds, depth) Documentation with pictures does help avoid the pitfalls of a closing or closed mind and I'll bet the pros have excellent memories as well as being able to think outside the box!

Pictures speak a thousand words A digital camera 'log' can be easy and enjoyable to keep. Not all specifics have to be written down, though it helps if you partner agues he caught the biggest one on a certain date. Photos to document an outing: lures that did well How often have you looked into your tacklebox and ask yourself, did this really catch one or more fish or a lunker? I either take a pic of a lure in the fish's mouth or put aside many lures that caught fish that day and take a shot with them on the boat carpet or truck's tailgate. After you download them to your pc or photobucket.com, I add notations such as how deep fished or how fast. The date stamp should be enough to answer the question of when. Areas of a lake or river that produced well You already know how shallow or deep these areas are and from photos of the lures that were used capable of working those areas; weeds that fish were caught in or near, give an indicatation of weed growth stage; uncommon weed growth such as invasives indicate whether an area may be unfishable or that will require different tactics in the future Air quality, available light and time of day The photo shows the amount of sunlight; the water surface shows wind, ripple, calm or rain and the date stamp tells the time and day the picture was taken. photos of fish hanging from a scale or next to a tape measure, prove that your lunker really didn't weigh more than first imagined (LOL) Memory is the least accurate method of storing data (unless you have a photographic memory) and either writing short notes or taking some pictures make the past less a mystery and more, a true memory.

Starting in 1982 I've kept a log book and faithfully entered the many facts surrounding each outing. To this day I wonder the value of all that information especially after comparing year to year, keeping each body of water separate. I guess the most important thing I noticed from all the effort was that on any particular day, a large variety of lures may catch many fish but on other days only a few lure types caught them. I'd forgotten many of the lures that caught fish in the past and that are now in storage or discontinued, but it makes me wonder how well they might work now. The other thing I noticed was that the quality and quantity of fish went down in certain lakes I regularly fish. So in a sense log books may indicate changes of a the water fished or angler preferences over the years. Here are a few other observations: Looking back, one thing is a constant - fishing lore that was refuted by experiences : fish bite on cloudy days; not always. fish don't bite as well on bright sunny days just after a cold front moves in; fact - not usually true in water over 50 degrees in during the spawn smallmouth require a downsized version of largemouth lures Documented observations of patterns that almost always happened: As severe weather approaches (especially an approaching thunder storm with heavy downpour and pressure change) - fishing is absolutely nuts! When fish were very active, many presentations produced. High activity or a single pattern can last a week or more and in specific areas of a lake or river. Early summer and late summer into early fall were consistently the best times for this. Another observance (which may be a false assumption) is that some new lures may do fantastic the first year but less so from then on. This may be because being in the right place and time (of year) made it seem that those lures excelled. Strange that those lures never made a comeback and are now collecting dust in my basement. Water draw down (reservoirs and private lakes) almost always concentrates fish and catching fish is predictable and easy. *** And most important to me as a lure crafter and designer: color, size, weight, design, lure action, modification effects and comparison to others on the market; what presentation(s) did the lure work well with; it's potential for different scenarios and how seasonally universal. Hybrid lures can bring big surprises and need to be documented. Has anyone else kept logs and if so, found significant consistentcies that can be relied on for future outings?