skeletor6

You would be much better off going with seaguar tatsu. It has all the great handling properties of invizx, but has much better sensitivity, abrasion resistance etc. On spinning gear I've found invizx to work very well because of its handling and feel it handles much better than bps and p line fluoro. Really though, with the longevity that tatsu offers and the ability to put backing on the line, you can get 3 spools easily out of the 200 yards and if you add all of that up it is not that expensive and in return you get a far superior line. Fishing line is too important to me to go cheap on. Especially with far over $100 rods and reels it doesn't make sense to go cheap on the line. In fc you get what you pay for.

He was just wondering if he could and I say why not? At the very least it will be a learning experience. And it can help with his casting technique. I actually have casted 1/8oz baits very well in 10mph wind with casting gear on the right rod and reel.

X2 nice post. The revo mgx is a sweet looking reel. It should be able to toss some light stuff but I think 1/8oz is going to be the cutoff for good accurate and desirable distanced casts. Report back!

J, I completely agree with you on such terms. Rod manufacturers designate power and action at their own will and such variances can be seen between individual product lines and across companies. The good custom rod builders that I have spoken with all measure their incoming blanks and weights and give information such as in degrees of deflection at certain weights from the tip to describe the action of the rod. Will actually weight the blank and note and know the characteristics for each blanks power to weight ratios which will give an idea of a blanks power. Rod manufacturers level it down to ml, m, mh, h, etc and m, mf, f, xf, for the tips which are only relevant to a specific line of rods and does not transcend across brands and models. What that leaves you with is ones own subjective measurements and comparisons of rods and their characteristics. That does not result in an exact science. If I had to generalize what I have experienced in my findings of dropshot rods is that the tip section of the rod gives very easily and has little power in comparison to non-dropshot specific rods. This is comparing the exact same manufacturer and models (cumara spinning vs cumara spinning dropshot, crucial spinning vs crucial spinning dropshot, NRX spinning shakeyhead vs NRX dropshot)....the major difference to me is in how soft the tip section is. One could also describe this as having a whippy tip or whatever have you, but the tips themselves are designed in such a way to allow proper presentation for a dropshot. For instance, NRX 852s spinning rod has a much stiffer tip and is much more powerful in that area than the 822 DSR or even 822 SYR. This follows my own personal preference with spinning rods. I would consider fishing small jigs, t-rigs and other heavy single hook baits on the standard spinning NRX rods, but would not consider it on the DSR. It is purely too soft in the tip to set the hook properly. On said dropshot rods that tip is not used for fighting the fish it is the midsection of the rod. Conversely, the DSR is perfect for dropshotting, the soft tip allows one to detect the softest of bites without spooking the fish, can allow one to shake the bait and not the weight easily, can allow one to check for weight on their line (which often is a sign of a fish) without ruining the presentation and so forth. Different techniques call for different rods which call for different properties of each rod. It just so happens that rods that are excellent dropshot rods IMHO are not great for other presentations due to this softness in the tip section of the rod. Last example I'll give which relates to selecting a cheaper like you mentioned $100+ version of a rod would be the expensive Megabass Orochi F3-610X4S Aaron Martens Limited. This is a great dropshot rod used by a great dropshot fisherman. If said rod were to be designated with a power and tip rating it would receive a Medium Light power and Moderate Fast Action. Its tip characteristics are soft and slow causing a smaller degree of deflection. Thus, if you were looking for a rod that is not a dropshot specific rod, but yet you want it to be great solely for that purpose, I would think you want something with a slower action. Such as a Fenwick Elite Tech Smallmouth ML/F for the $100 pricemark or some other spinning rod with a slow action. The hookset on dropshots are not strong heavy hooksets, they are more so light sweeping hooksets which pin the thin wire hook into the fishes mouth and keeps that hook pinned there. Same sort of case as to why you would want a crankbait rod in a slower action, for the give that it has. With all that said, everyone has their own preferences, some may want a stiffer tip or faster tip because it is their own style of how they fish the dropshots. Their is no right or wrong here. Moreso, meeting a rod that matches your specific requirements for the technique you are fishing. What I can say is, a dropshot rod that fits the properties that I have given as being great for dropshotting, usually will not be great for any other techniques besides dropshotting. Which is why many times if you have a smaller rod collection or go out fishing with a smaller amount of outfits you may want to bring a more versatile spinning rod to the table something a little stiffer and faster if you are going to be tying something else on besides a dropshot. I would hate trying to set the hook of a jig with my dropshot rods.

Hate to revive an old thread just thought maybe I could help this guy because I am in a similar situation. I fish in michigan and do not get on the great lakes. In the lakes I fish a 5lb bass would be my personal best. I have been using casting equipment for the last 12 years and would not consider casting equipment to be used for power set ups. I have found casting equipment to be much more useful in many situations that you can see in my post a few points back. I feel there is a misunderstanding here. It is more about the weight of your bait, and the thickness of your cover than it is the size of the fish. I believe this last year a B.A.S.S. tournament fisherman caught a 9lb fish dropshotting with a spinning rig with light line/equipment in mild cover. If you want me to get his name I can find it, but I believe it to be beside the point You CAN use spinning gear to haul out 12lb fish and you CAN use casting gear to haul in 1/2 lb fish. It boils down to personal preference. Spinning gear and the way it casts and manages line is really set up to avoid any type of disasters under most any condition. Here you do not have a spool that is spinning, more line that is coming off of a spool. Casting equipment there is the involvement of a spool that spins to allow line off of it. Heavier baits have an easier time starting up the spool and keeping force on the line to keep the line from moving slower than the spinning spool. Most backlashes are caused from the spool spinning faster than the line that is being drawn out. In such a situation, most people will find that casting equipment is best suitable for baits that are in the 1/4 ounce range or higher. There are casting equipment that is made for casting lighter baits. Such equipment entails a smaller spool, a lighter spool, and very smooth operation because the bait is going to apply less inertia on the spool to get the spool started up on the cast. Usually this equipment is EXPENSIVE. Special spools themselves can cost hundreds of dollars. A few reels come to mind in the less than $200 range for handling lighter line/lighter baits. Those are the Daiwa Sol, Daiwa Alpha, Shimano 50 series and the newer Daiwa Lexa 100 seems to be promising. The ones that are very good at completing such a task are the Daiwa Pixy type reels and are really enthusiast equipment at their price range. That being said, a spinning reel does not have to deal with such issues that a casting reel does for the lighter bait scenario since there is not a spinning spool involve during the casting process. Therefore, going the spinning route for the lighter equipment is less expensive, has a smaller learning curve, and is cheaper to get an outfit with. Which is why I personally use spinning gear for such a task. Now if I am tossing something heavier, which i consider to be 3/16oz and above you will see casting equipment in my hand. This is not to catch 12lb fish, this is to just catch fish of any size. There is a larger learning curve when it comes to casting gear. With the newer equipment and the right rod, one can get away with not really knowing what they are doing with casting equipment and avoiding professional overruns (birdsnests) for the most part since the braking systems take the place of ones thumb in controlling the speed of the spool and line. If you have yet to try casting equipment on your NJ lakes I suggest you get yourself a reel around $100 get a rod around $100 and give it a shot. With casting equipment I enjoy how it keeps the line closer to the rod which I believe plays a small role in sensitivity. I also like how quick I can get from one cast to another since to get ready for the cast its just a push of the thumb bar, thumb on the spool and off you go. Also, for cranking purposes I find it much less tiring. This is personal preference, but you may find yourself enjoying both types of equipment for certain situations just as I have. Do not limit yourself to feeling that casting equipment is for large fish and spinning equipment is for small fish because each can handle both. Again, I have yet to catch a 5lb bass and very much enjoy using casting equipment and in no way am I overpowering my fish, the smallmouth up here are known to put up a pretty good fight. The rockbass I catch just kind of lay on there side and say okay I'm caught. Kind of boring, but still fun. Just my 2 cents.

A Drop Shot specific rod...such as the shimano cumara/crucial dropshot rods with the "D" designation or an NRX DSR both are drop shot specific rods. It is in the products name and uses a blank that implies a very soft tip. Even a MH crucial dropshot stick (crsdx72mh) has a very soft tip. The power is more in the midsection of the rod not the tip for these DS specific rods not the tip. Stiffness of a tip is not in direct relationship to the power rating of a rod for the dropshot sticks I have encountered and the ones that work the best have a very soft tip. The XF action just designates the degree to which the tip bends. The steeper the degree the faster the rating and each company has its own designations of what xf, f, mf, and m, are for their rods. The actual degree to which the tip bends into the backbone is not in direct relationship to the stiffness of the tip. The power rating of the rod usually designates how stiff a tip will be but in the case of drop shot specific rods it does not hold true because such rods are designed to have the optimal tip for dropshotting which is not a stiff tip whether it be a ml m mag medium or medium heavy stick. The drop shot shimanos are good examples of this. A cusdx68m has a much different tip characteristics tjan a cusx68m. They both are medium powered spinning rods with extra fast actions with different tip characteristics. The same can be seen in mag medium loomis NRX models. The DSR and SYR have the same ratings but the DSR is much softer in its tip.

Generally XF rods are stiff, you want a drop shot rod to have a really soft tip so you can shake the bait not the weight. Dropshot specific rods that are designated xf are my favorite due to their very soft tip and their ability to set the hook well without ripping it from the fishes mouth. Also the soft tip helps in bite detection as you can feel and see the detection of a bite at your tip. My cumara cusdx72m has all the properties I look. For in a DS rod. It has the length for a perfect easy sweeping hookset and the tip is perfect it gives very easy and is plenty soft and it has the backbone to fish larger fish. It is plenty sensitive as well. To each their own I guess. DS specific rods such as the nrx822dsr also have that very soft whippy tip which is why they are only really good for dropshotting but are great at it.

I would also suggest a technique specific DS rod and would strongly advocate seaguar invizx if you are going cheap or seaguar tatsu if you want the best Kvd l&l always and the rod plays a huge role in sensitivity many of the bites are so soft and the fish may just ****** the bait and stay there, it requires very delicate sensitivity for such a technique and a good rod will solve those issues.

I believe you should have at least 1.) T-rig/jig rod for 3/16 oz to 1/2 oz this can usually toss wacky senkos well 2.) A heavier powered rod fore 1/2oz plus bottom contact and can double for frogging. 3.) A spinning rig for the light stuff and DS, shakey heads etc. 4.) A crankbait stick if you get the right one it should be able to handle topwaters jerkbait, spinners, and cranking. That would probably be my bottom line Some could probably get away with one rod for all bottom contact and frogging one spinning outfit one moving bait stick and just use those 3 but I think you will be shorted in the bottom contact area That said, I'm a huge fan of having technique specific rods, a DS spinning rod can probably only do that well maybe some other stuff alright, but its hard to cover all spinning applications with 1 rod and cover all bottom contact with 1 rod and all moving with 1 rod. There are large advantages IMHO to having a large range or rods for certain situations. You are asking a lot to have a really nice bottom contact rod to so everything you want out of jigging and t-rigging as the cover changes and conditions it gets even more difficult. There are optimal rods for optimal situations. People who gather large rod collections may not have them all out on the boat but they will bring out the rods/reels that are ready to perform well in the waters they will fish that day. Say someone is in highly pressured light cover waters they will bring different equipment from a heavy cover murky lake. I'm not at that point with my outfits but people with 20+ outfits have their reasons.

Yeah I only put about 10 yards of leader on my curado 50's...and that's only because I don't want to loose any fluoro getting the line started

1:) I can say birdsnest? I can also say Gamakatsu! Seriously its not that difficult to throw 1/4 ounce baits. Birdsnest are due to technique flaws, you most likely are trying to cast wayyyyyy too hard and wonder why your spool is spinning faster than your line everytime. Casting equipment does have a longer learning curve, but also pays off very well. I use spinning equipment for stuff under 1/4oz just because I feel that spinning equipment is more efficient at it and I like how the rod and reel holds for the techniques that call for such light baits. Such as dropshots, flickshakes, etc. 2.) Wind can be problematic if you are not controlling the speed of your spool in regards to the speed of the line being thrown out. As the bait (line) starts to slow down because of the wind, the spool will keep on spinning, you must slow this down. Most likely you are trying to cast too hard. Casting is not just taking your bait and launching it as far as possible. Casting distance is wayyyyy overrated, location and how it is presented is key. 3.) Who says baitcasters need bearing upgrades? That is optional...and I HIGHLY recommend to anyone that is having trouble casting with baitcasters to not add upgrades that speed up how fast your spool spins! If your technique is off, having a faster spinning spool will cause an increase in backlashes. That is why having many breaks engaged is highly recommended to those learning with baitcasters. To slow down the spool, not speed it up. 4.) The bearing upgrade was also not necessary for the casting reel too! That was your call, I have not upgraded any of my reels and they work great. My H20 mettles even cast just fine. Pretty sure their bearings are well below abec 7's. I use casting equipment for really anything above 1/4oz. Below that I use spinning gear. To me they both have their place. One is not necessarily better than the other, I just feel spinning equipment is great for lightweight applications and casting equipment is great for everything above what I consider lightweight. You can use a baitcaster for light stuff and use spinning equipment for heavy stuff. They both can and will do it, its just my personal preference. Nonetheless, they each have their place in my fishing arsenal.

Mods, any way to sticky the "best rods under $100 threads"? Seems like it comes up many times and would be helpful. Nonetheless, I think I would give the *** black a shot just from hearing good feedback on it recently.

All great advice. One thing you should take from all this is that the technique can be very versatile. Don't limit yourself to "X" bait. I second using tungsten, but that is your choice. I also like the idea with mono, that is something that I am going to do new this year. I was not the OP, but appreciate all the information given in the thread.

Matches well too

Keep thinking the TP if you are sticking with lews lol

6lb or 8lb seaguar tatsu, or what Toray Bawo Finesse FC If you are looking for something cheaper Seaguar Invizx

That is very true as well.

Phenix Recon 715c I dont know about the new version, but the old version weighed 3.65 ounces and could easily handle those spinnerbaits. Not to mention is the most sensitive rod in its price range in my opinion.

I highly doubt that its comparable to the NRX. They are the standard for ultra-sensitive rods at the moment. It sounds more like an advertisement to me and anyways if its half the price of an NRX it is out of this threads price range.

Actually seaguar is one of the only companies that controls every aspect in the manufacturing process of their FC's. They produce line diameters with deviations far exceeding any company out there for FC. Invizx is known for its manageability and knot strength. If you are having issues with breakoffs its most likely something to do with your knots or guides. Yozuri is an extremely well priced line that performs well. I have a 600 yard spool of it and found that it was not for me. I much rather preferred the performance of higher grade fluoros. Yozuri is probably the highest recommended line on this forum and to be honest, at its price, you really aren't taking a huge risk giving it a shot. I would not buy into or make your decision on the invizx poor quality spew, its just farce. Make your decision on what you want out of the line. Do you need the benefits of the faster sinking less visible invizx? Or do you want the extra strength and well priced yozuri? Its all about your needs.

Graphite frame kills it. Daiwa's magforce breaking systems are excellent systems for finesse fishing. You won't find a company with equivalent systems. Daiwa really sets the standard for finesse casting reels. I heard good things about the lexa reels and finesse fishing. Still not even close to a pixy. As mentioned the Daiwa Alphas and Sol are great reels as a cheaper option. I have also found that the Shimano 50 reels perform well. Kickerfish's explanation is spot on about finesse casting integrals. As much as I would love to go full out casting gear, spinning outfits allow you to finesse fish extremely well and definitely have there in my outfits. That being said, a blinged out plxy with a spool upgrade would be something fun to use, just not economically feasible to me. I usually splurge on rods though :/

You would love a used/on-sale Dobyns 705cb Glass Fast action. Its an amazing rod for cranking purposes. And is extremely versatile, it can handle jerkbaits, topwater, etc. That being said, I heard the cranking powells do a fine job as well and can find some for pretty cheap.

I have not found any articles speaking to the density differences of different fluorocarbons. Out of the three you named I would definitely take Sunline Shooter. Its a great sensitive, and low stretch line that will offer you superb sensitivity. I use this line along with Seaguar Tatsu. Tatsu wins my vote as the best overall line, it pretty much does everything you could ask in a Fluoro line at this point and the manufacturing process is extremely precise. That being said, Shooter is likely to be a tad more sensitive. Either way, I have had ZERO issues with knots with Shooter and Tatsu. I use a pitzen knot, the improved clinch and San Diego Jam/Double Jam, seem to be favorites as well. I feel the most important idea is to keep the knot neat and clean. If you tie good knots, you should not have any breakage issues with these premium fluoros. Furthermore, make sure the integrity of the line is sound. It will help gravely with breakoffs. As far as density testing goes, I have not seen any. I would like to see more fluoro testings. I also firmly believe that stretch is not the only component that contributes to the sensitivity of a line. Like you are mentioning with density, the same stretch mono and fluoro, the fluoro will be more sensitive. There are more factors that come in to play here IMHO. Density could be one of them, also the fact that fluorocarbon does not belly and lays flat with sinking baits allowing for sensitivity during any part of the presentation.

My vote goes for the Phenix Recon's and M1's. It's hard to say though the Endurances & Avids are great rods as well.

What he said ^^^^ The tournament adds the MSB system with the centrifugal breaks. The tournament pro's main difference is that it weighs much lighter. The tournament and tournament pro's are the best value in the Lew's lineup in my opinion.