MDBowHunter

With today's type of saboted slugs and and sabots for muzzies, they will fly pretty much as far as a rifle. I can take 200 yard shots all day long and group them less then 1.5" with my 20ga ultra slugger or my encore in muzzie trim. With that being said stats show rifles are no more dangerous then shotguns or muzzies. Also with the velocity of a rifle round they're more likely to disintegrate upon impact as where a slug will just keep on keeping on. The big question is how far is your furthest possible shot going to be? If they're under 75 yards I would go with a shotgun, a rifle bullet at that range would never really expand and probably zip right through the deer. Not that it wont die but you'll be tracking it, as where with the size and weight of a slug, the deer will most likely be knocked off it's feet at the point of impact. I dont know the laws where your at, but here in MD as long as your 150 yards or more you good to go with any weapon legally that is

Put a fork or spoon in the in the oven door, so it keeps it cracked slightly and you'll be golden. This is what I do, I'd rather use my oven then a dehydrator. I like the finished product better.

I know a few guys who love it, me personally I just cut it out. I think its faster to just cut it out and get it over with, plus I try and pack in as little as possible.

I wasn't going to even post on this because last time I voiced my opinion it turned into a bunch of BS, but here we go anyway. My first opinion after seeing them was they're junk, and wouldn't fly worth a d**n. Now after seeing them in action they're even junkier then I thought, horrible penetration and a crappy blood trail and fly like total sh-t. I was filming for a friend a week and a half ago and he hit a Sika hind (which is half the size of a whitetail) right in the shoulder and it didn't penetrate the bone at all, the arrow bounced right back out, and only had a little blood on the broadhead and that was it (this was out of a 70# bow). I will admit that this same guy killed a Sika stag two days prior with the toxics, but he hit it right in the heart and it still ran over 75 yards. Also I haven't seen one person yet that was 100% happy with the flight of these things. My uncle once told me that half the fishing lures out there were designed to catch fishermen not the fish, and broadheads are no different. If a broadhead wont fly as true as a FP throw it away and try another one, because your only going to waste your time and money and get really frustrated along the way. Endless go with a G5 T3 and don't look back, you wont be disappointed. And Clayton last I heard from you is that these were the sh-t and were hitting right where your FPs were, what happened?

If you have an area that you know the orange army isn't hunting, the deer will be there once the blasting begins. I have a couple of small pieces of property that I exclusively bow hunt just because of that reason, and them areas fill up with deer once the guns start going off. Once the deer hit these areas the only thing that you'll do by using a gun is just push the deer further. I generally let these areas sit until a couple days into gun season to insure the deer are there and then it's on. The deer know where the safety is at, and thats where they'll head once the woods become a sea of orange. Just remember that in most states you have to wear orange while hunting with a bow during gun or muzzleloader season. I dont know about NC but here in MD we have a 50 yard rule for bow hunting in some counties as where guns have a 150 yard rule, so in short you can creep a lot closer to a structure with a bow. Which in turn will allow you to hunt the areas that the deer will start using once the woods get packed with gun hunters. Good luck and be safe

What ever you do buy a Tenpoint and you wont be disappointed, they are a little pricey but worth it. Get one that has the accudraw or accudraw50 on it and cocking will be a breeze. Excaliber would be my second choice.

Just remember that lighter arrows = less kinetic energy. I personally wouldn't shoot anything less then 100 grains, but thats just me.

If it has a rifled barrel I would try Remington Copper solids or Hornady SSTs, and if it isn't rifled then I would use Lightfield rifled slugs. But to be honest I would grab a few different types of slugs and try them out, you'll most likely find one that the gun loves and others not so much..

I'm glad to see it worked out for you Clayton, good luck with putting one in the dirt

I use this same mix and they tear it up, the only thing is this article was written a while back and it's more expensive to make then stated: Recipe from Missouri Conservation..... The ultimate goal of mineral supplements in deer management is to increase antler size and improve overall health of deer herds by providing minerals or trace minerals that may be lacking in a given area. Although the jury is still out on effects of mineral supplements on wild deer populations since most studies have been on pen raised deer. Studies on wild population have been inconclusive and to a degree the same on pen raised deer due to other variables such as supplemental feeding that takes place in these areas. The direct benefits will probably be far greater in certain regions that lack certain trace minerals in the soil and plants. One mixture or home recipe of deer minerals we recommend to landowners is a mix of one part Dicalcium Phosphate, 2 parts trace mineral salt (loose), and 1 part loose stock salt. All of these are available to purchase at most local feed and farm supply stores. Just to give you a little background on these minerals and what they are designed to do lets start with the Dicalcium Phosphate. Dicalcium phosphate is used primarily as dairy cattle feed additive and other animal feeds. It promotes feed digestion, weight gain, and milk production, which is obviously beneficial to a lactating doe deer. Dicalcium phosphate contains roughly between 18 and 21 percent phosphorus and 19 to 23 percent calcium. You're probably asking why this is important by now. Well if your talking about growing antlers on deer you need to take a look at what is the make up of a deer antler. Hardened antlers contain 40 to 50 percent organic matter from mostly proteins while the most abundant minerals consist of calcium and phosphorus. The demands for these minerals on a daily basis can be significant for antler production. In addition, a lactating doe's milk contains high percentages of both calcium and phosphorus to pass on to their young, also causing a significant mineral drain on the doe. What makes all this significant is the fact that phosphorous cannot be synthesized by the body so it must be provided in needed levels in the animals diet. This is where a mineral mix such as this could be very valuable if an area is lacking in these naturally. Trace mineral salts do two things for deer. The first and foremost is it does have the salt/sodium to attract the deer and promote the use of the mineral. Secondly, it provides the trace minerals such as magnesium and potassium that are very important to herd health but are not found in significant quantities like others. Stock salt is again like part of the above. It has the sodium to attract deer to the minerals. Most mineral mixes have salt as their most abundant ingredient since a mix of just posphorus, calcium, and other trace minerals have little attraction to deer once mixed with the soil. As for directions of use we suggest using a 3-pound coffee can to measure out 1 part dicalcium phoshate, 2 parts trace mineral salt, and 1 part stock salt. Mix all these together once ready to use but keep components separate during storage. Dig a hole in the soil about 36 inches wide and 6 inches deep and mix the mineral well with the soil. This should be replenished after 6 months and then once a year thereafter. Most use seems to be during the spring and summer months on mineral licks. It's a good idea to keep these areas replenished and stocked in the same spot to maintain use. Print this off and take with you. WHITETAIL DEER HOMEMADE MINERAL MIX RECIPE Ingredients: Makes 200 lbs. for about $23.00 1 part Di-calcium phosphate, this is a dairy feed additive bought at feed stores. Comes in 50lb Bags at around $11.00 you need one bag. 2 parts Trace mineral salt, the red and loose kind without the medications. Comes in 50lb Bags at around $5.00 you need two bags. 1 part Stock salt, ice cream salt. Comes in 50lb Bags at around $2.00 you need one bag. Directions: -Use a 3 pound or similar size coffee can to use as your measure for each part of the mix. -Mix all together well but not until read to use, keep ingredients separate until ready to put to use. -Dig or tear up a circle in the soil about 36 inches wide and about 6 inches deep. -Mix your mineral mixture with the soil. Maintenance: -Replenish in 6 months with fresh supply of mineral, and then each year there after. Does will still use it during some of the season. Now is the time to get it out!!! The hole in the ground will get huge!!....enjoy

To be honest I hope he gets dead on, and in post 21 I did make a comment that if you could show me that I'd love to see and learn from it. But do I think it's the right route, No I do not but to each his own. The only thing that I want to come out of this, is for Clayton to go kill the biggest deer of his life with an awesome shooting bow. JB all you would've had to do is show me a vid of someone doing exactly what you described and I would've said your right, I am man enough to do that.

No they do not lock in the open position, only while closed. Once they open they will collapse right back where they were.

Hey Clayton do you know if a NAP spitfire is legal in NY, or are they considered barbed also? If they're legal I have some that I don't use anymore that I'd be willing to give you, just PM me a shipping address. The spitfires fly awesome, and I only switched to the T3s because I think that hey do a little more damage. Every deer that I ever shot with the spitfires was found within 40 yards or less and I promise that they'll hit right where your FPs are hitting...

Again my bow has only been paper tuned THATS IT. I just choose to use a BH that will fly the same as a FP along with most bow hunters that I know. I agree his bow isn't in tune thus is why I said to paper tune it in my first post, your the one who insists he just needs to BH tune it. Look Clayton asked for some advice and I gave him some. I know what I can do with a bow unlike you I do all the work on my own bow as I said. In your first post you just said take it to someone and let them fix it, so it's obvious that your going by what you've either read or been told and not what you know. But thats right if it's on the net it must be true. Also like I said earlier I went outside and tried to do this yesterday with no luck, have you? If your so confident that it can be done get a video camera and lets see it. Again good luck Clayton sorry that this thread has turned to crap. I'll say it one more time, if it was me I'd make sure that the bow was paper tuned first, then I would choose to use a BH that will fly as true as a FP. There are many out there that do and will put the deer in the dirt. Me personally I would never get hung up so hard on one BH that I would go to hell and back just to get it to fly straight, but thats just me. IMO your putting yourself through a lot of un-needed stress.

Oh I know that it can be done, my bow will put my FPs and my BHs in the same spot every time. But I also believe that it cant be done with every BH out there, some just fly like crap no matter what. I also know that I just went out and spent over half of an hour trying to move the rest and not move the POI of my FP and I couldn't do it. As I said I moved the rest a 1/8th of an inch and it moved my POI by 3 inches, thats all the proof I need. All I can say is good luck Clayton. I hope you get it figured out, and if you lived in my area I would gladly stop by and give you some help.

Come on guys it's hammer time, you cant touch this.

Just for the record the main reason I say paper tune is because Clayton said in his first post that it looks like his arrows are corkscrewing. This is generally caused by the arrow not leaving the bow straight, and then moving back and forth as the arrow tries and straighten it's self, or under spined arrows. But since he said he's getting good groupings I doubt that under spined arrows are the problem.

Ok guys, for sh-ts and giggles I took my bow outside with 12 arrows all with FP I shot the first six and then moved my rest to the left 1/8th of an inch. Then I shot the next 6 arrows and they hit approx. 3" to the left of the first group. Then I pulled the arrows went back to my spot and shot 6 arrows, then I put my rest back 1/8th of an inch to the right (or where they were before being moved) and the next 6 arrows all hit 3" to the right of the first arrows. To be honest I knew these would be the results, but with this discussion in mind I did it anyway. All these shots were taken at 20 yards with a Parker Phoenix 32 set @ 70# with a 29 " draw length not that any of that matters. But like I stated earlier try paper tuning the bow and then if they still don't fly the same, do yourself a huge favor and try a few different BHs (when the funds will allow it that is). Clayton I'm just curious as to why a T3 is illegal in NY but a rage is not, is it the cutting diameter?

If you have the coin to get it, don't think twice. But to be honest I'm with flechero on this one as I use the Weber 22.5" guy, and I have his tiny brother that I take on day trips when it's just me and the wife. All of my BBQing gets done on a Masterbuilt gas smoker which does an awesome job. The one thing about the BGE is dont ever and I mean ever use charcoal lighter fluid in it. Use a charcoal starter or you'll never get the burned fluid smell and taste out of it.

If you can find me some vids showing that its possible to do what you saying I would love to see it, as I wanting to learn as much as I can also. Because what I'm see everyone doing is adjusting the rest so the BH will hit where the FP just did, but they never shoot a FP after to show that they'll indeed hit in the same spot after the rest is moved. If your moving the rest to adjust for the flight of the BH, the field point will move just as far as the BH . So if your BH was hitting low left as compared to the FP and you adjust the rest to fix it. You FP is now going to hit high right every time. I've been tuning my bow along with my brothers bow and 3 of my hunting buddies for the last 10 years, and all of our bows will put our BHs the same exact place as a FP from 10 to 60 yards. And this is with us guys using 3 different brands of BHs. I've shot a ton of different BHs over the years and there's a couple handfulls that I found to fly the same as a FPs, I can also take one of my brothers arrows and BHs and it will hit right where mine will with no adjustments to the rest or sight. I shoot Maxima Blue Streaks with T3s and he shoots whatever Redhead carbons that happen to be on sale at BPS and 2 blade rages, I was shooting NAP spit fires before I switched to the T3s and they fly just the same as the T3s or rages. Now if you was to try and do that same side by side with a muzzy and a thunder head they will hit 2 different spots every time, I know this because they were some of the first BHs that I ever used and I've done the comparison. Now the reason that they hit in two different spots is because of the blades and how they plane out going through the air. Now if you was to take the blades off them same two heads and shoot them they will hit the same spot, but only without blades and again I've tried this myself. The only reason I even switched for the spitfires to the T3s is the damage that is caused by the T3 compared to the spitfire.

Broad head tuning will work, but if you ever go back to shooting field points or blunt rubber tips for small game you will have to re-tune your bow, or just guess at it. I just find it easier to use a BH that flies the same as a field point, blunt point, judo or whatever. Plus I don't get why guys take all the time to paper tune their bow, just to make sure that the arrow is leaving the bow nice and straight. Just to go and mess it up, and all of this to make up for an ill flying BH. There are a ton of BHs that will fly as true as a field point and more then get the job done.

First off I would definitely paper tune it, it's super easy I'll give you a link at the end of this that will show you how to do it. If your shooting those toxics, I could definitely see where they would plane out and fly different then a field point. I know them toxics look great but do yourself a favor and try some G5 T3s, they fly just like a field point which is great when practicing. For one you can practice with field points and you wont tear up the blades on your broad heads or your target. Also when practicing with broadheads you run a high risk of cutting vanes off or just hit another head thats already in the target. Once you have it paper tuned then if you want to use them toxics you'll have to tune in your sights for the broadheads, but at this point you'll be stuck practicing with a head that you can't sharpen so you better stock up on a bunch of extra blades. But long story short paper tuning lets you know that your arrow is leaving the bow nice and straight. Good luck.

Two very nice bow kills Blue, and an awesome story to boot. Congrats

I don't have any of their binos, but I can say that I own 5 of their scopes and they are the best I own. This is compared to nikon, bushnell and simmons which I also own. I have two buddies in my hunt club that uses the Leupold range finders and they are also awesome, way more crisp and clear then the nikons and the bushnells. I wouldn't hesitate in buying anything Leupold, they have some of the best customer service out there also.

Thanks BB, He was taken from a 2 acre patch of woods behind a warehouse that a buddy of mine worked at, him and two other nice ones were living there during early season because of the tons of wild grapes that were there. Yes nice fox Clayton, I've been after a fox for years now the problem is I've never taken the time to just hunt them. It seems every time I see one while in a deer stand it's just out of bow range, and when I'm hunting with a gun I just dont want to blow the deer out so I don't take the shot. I hunt a farm that has numerous albino squirrels on it and I'd love to have a fox mounted with one in it's mouth. Bow season here in MD starts Sept. 6th, I can not wait...