fishraptor

I just purchased a mint 17' Old Town Discovery Sport canoe with a square back. It's the Titanic when it comes to canoes, hold 1000 pounds and weights in close to 120# so not lugging this too far. Anyway I have been canvasing the net as to the best outboard to put on the back of this. What I am looking for is probably a 4 or 5hp Motor. 1) reliability 2) warranty 3) functionality 4) QUIETNESS (the quieter the better) It will be used strictly for fishing. Looking at the Merc's, Honda's and Yami's. (we don't really have any Suzuki dealers close so can't include them in the mix) So far I am leaning towards the Yami but some Merc dealers advise Merc is the way to go. One dealer gave me a great price on a 4hp Yami but it was a 2016 leftover and I'm not sure if it's "age" should preclude me from purchasing it. I would imagine all motors have upgrades, retrofits and so on so not sure if the new 2018/19 model would be better ?? Does anyone have any first hand experience with these three, any info would be appreciated.

One of my favorite rods is a $100 Wright & McGill "Skeet Reese" (yellow) Shaky Head rod paired with a Plueger President $60 buck reel. Got the tip from a very good fisherman and went with it. Love it.

Thanks for the post LCG...... I guess the issue that I am trying to stress is: If you "lightly" hook a fish, (and that happens more frequently than we like) say a 2 to 4 pounder in open water..... and you had to "bet the farm"... What would you rather have in your hand: a true finesse rod 7' 1/8 to 3/8 oz, 6 to 12# rating, using 8# test or a Med/heavy, 1/2 to 7/8oz, 8 to 15# rating using 15# test.... I'm going with the whippy finesse rod....... (if the drag is set right and you play him right in my eyes you have more advantage or not ripping that hook out). BUT, since I am "somewhat" green and have only been fishing for a handful of years I figured I'd canvas the guys with lots of experience and see if their was a decisive sway one way or the other but to my surprise it is not cut and dry.

JiG man, thats what I'm kinda getting at. As much as I partially agree with "Team9Nines" philosophy, I just can't help but think that all else being equal it would be harder to "pull off" on a true finesse rod. ie. Can't rip/tear a hook whan you can't get anyleverage. Once again I wish to reiterate that in heavy grass, or maybe lots of big rocks and such, you get my point, then speed would most likely be beneficial. I am surprised I did not get more feedback on this topic, either your experiences showed you you had or had not better luck regarding the two presentations. Guess I'll just have to keep a "mental" scorecard and see how things go. I thought the answer be be more decisive/ clear cut. Thanks for your post.

Totally agree but going with 4# as you say, now that is taking it to the very limit. I actually am setting up an ultra light spinning setup with 7# Sunline Sniper floro (I'm not that brave to any lower just yet). This will be for super clear open water. enjoyed your reply.

I have to admit this one has been bugging me for quite a while considering I fish a lot of true finesse drop shot rods w/10braid w/10 floro leader but have noticed that MANY guys in the league I just joined and fished in 2018 season use the common typical med/hvy rods. I noticed that many of them just flip the Bass into the boat without using a net, except for the monsters obviously. I am limited to doing this on a true finesse rod, if I tried to flip a 4+ pound bass onto the deck In my estimation I would be taking a chance on breaking the rod (maybe this is just my "greeness". Anyway the question is: Finesse guy using a true finesse rod NRS 842 with 10# line VS other guy using med/hvy rod with 15# plus Do you think a guy with a true finesse rod has more or less of a better chance of landing the "same size" fish as another using a heavier rod with heavier line. Obviously we'll stay "light weeds to open water" as heavy weeds would obviously give the edge to heavier line rigging. My thoughts are a Bass, pretty much any size would have a harder time coming off a finesse application (using the analogy of fighting your way out of a paper bag) then the heavier set up. The guy with the heavier obviously can haul that same fish in faster without fear of line breakage but "tearing the hook loose" would give the edge to the finesse rigging in my opinion. I really really do not know who would have the advantage. My opinion is the finesse rigging would be harder to come off of because of the "whippieness" of the rod and hence have an advantage. Obviously big "slobs" are not included in this discussion or heavy weeds and such. I am looking forward to hearing everyones views/opinions and any hard facts that they might know.

good point and I totally agree. I too feel sometimes funny mentioning my collection of $400+ rods and $400+ reels especially since I am pretty much a beginner as I don't want those people to immediately associate "Hey this guy has super high end stuff so he must be a super fisherman". I do not brag, I buy them because they are awesome to fish with. At the end of the day when SOME have tired wrists, forearms, arms, shoulders and such I do not. You can fish with these combos all day long and REALLY enjoy yourself, plus the fight is always more fun on a true finesse rod. With that said my 3 most favorite D/S spinning combos are: NRX 842S w/ Daiwa Certate 2510 Megabass Addermine w/ Shimano Stella 3000 Phenix MBX-S (7'6") w/Tatula Serling Silver limited Edition They all have a distinctive feel to them which makes it fun to switch between each. One last side note: Even thought the Daiwa Tatula Sterling Silver reel was only $200 bucks compared to the $7-800 Stella or $450 Daiwa Certate.... The Tatula is one awesome reel. If anyone knows of anyone who has another Sterling Silver I would love to buy as a backup.

I know where your going....great point.... but, no, he didn't give a rat's ars about my gear. I read people well..

will try to keep it short. Went to a party when I met this guy who states he knows 3 of the fisherman I know who are FANTASTIC fisherman who regularly kick ars, but he claims he can regularly beat them all, stating he showed THEM a lot of his technics and thats why their are so good. When asked what he used for gear as I use super high end stuff (Stella, Certate, Steez, Megabass and so on) he stated $150 med/heavy Bass pro rod. Now that didn't bother me as lots of GREAT fisherman used "regular" middle of the road priced gear, but when I asked him what line he was using for D/S he stated 50# braid straight to the hook. A first I thought he was joking but he was dead serious. The water in reference is stained but not enough in my opinion to be able to use anything like that. The reason it shocked me is because I have 3 super high end true finesse drop shot rods (1 NRX, 1 Megabass Addermine & 1 Phenix MBX) all spooled with 10# Suffix 832 braid w/10# floro leader. I am a big fan of floro leaders (and though the rest of the world was too) He said he NEVER uses a floro leader except for crystal clear water. To add to this story, his buddy who is also a top notch fisherman is ordering an EXTRA HEAVY 6'3" drop shot rod. Since im fairly new I have always read that drop shot was more of a finesse presentation so how can the 1st fisherman d/s w/50# braid tied directly to hook and the 2nd fisherman be buying a 6'3" XH rod for drop shotting. Did I miss something somewhere ? I was even thinking of putting a 4th D/S combo together with 6 to 8# for clear open water presentations. I don't know if I have ever read of a "Pro" drop shoting w/50# braid tied direct or using an XH 6'3" rod. P.S. In case you state gent number 1 is a BS'er, I saw the photos and he had a gazillion and most were with BIG Bass...... so it appears this guy is for real ??

Hi Way2slow, read your reply and have the following comments I hear what you say but I highly doubt it is the batteries as this problem existed with the old batteries which had far less CCA than the monsters I put in now. I think I spent close to $800 or more for the Oddyssey batteries. One is 1000 CCA (group 27) and the other is 1350 CCA (group 31) so I have a combined CCA of 2350 which is WAY more than enough to get the job done. They were FULLY CHARGED that morning before I left. Plus when it didn't fire I jumped it off my F350 Dually which also has two new big batteries. So we can rule out batteries (current). Just got back from the Merc dealer, told him the issue.... he said could be a lot of things...... Temp sensor could be failing not telling the motor to "choke", he mentioned a number of things that I could not do as you needed diagnostic equipment. He advised that the 200 DFI Opti are not known to start hard in cold weather, he advised, somethings a muck.... so I decided I will bring it to him to scope out.

I always prime (pump up) the bulb hard prior to starting and this problem only exists when below 40 degrees so would not guess these would be the issues. thanks anyway..... nice video !!!! now theres a man who likes to "start early" I did check with a Merc mechanic and was advised that the 200 Opti do start fine in cold weather. That is one thing that I have not done..... dissassemble the A/B switch to see if corrosion. I would imagine they do come appart as you have to afix the battery cables inside them. This I will do. Thanks for the reference.

answering some of WRG q's... No, engine doesn't backfire, just cranks... do I prime the engine using the key ?? When I bought the boat I was told just to turn key, don't know about priming.... didn't know that function existed...... but would assume that after trying key SEVERAL times there would be adequate fuel for a "fire".... is there a "check" for the Power packs or is it just a "replace" and hope for the best. They sound expensive.... I guess I never did ask the million dollar (most important) question: Do Optimax 200's generally start good in cold weather (say 20 to 40 deg) or are they typically scoundrels ? If I knew everyone elses motors were firing good to great at these temps then I would know that I definately have an issue. Oh, by the way..... when I use the boat during the summer the motor runs SUPER strong with lots of power and throttle response. Could not be happier..... and in the summer at the Cape she will fire dozens and dozens of times during the day. Other than the "problem" starting in cold the motor rips...... P.S. I JUST thought of something..... While at the Cape I do a fair amount of trolling at idle, for long periods of time, 30 min to 1 plus hours..... After trolling at idle for that long period of time I DO NOTICE she will run a tad rough (skip slightly) for say 30 seconds at full throttle before she "cleans out" and returns to 100 smooth running. I have NO IDEA if that has anything to do (related to) the "cold weather starting" issue. You would think with todays "hot" ignition systems that you could idle the motor forever without it "loading up" so to speak.

Thanks for the reply. to follow up... plugs are new... I ONLY used non-ethanol gas and it is always fresh and fuel filter was just changed. I do realize that batteries in parallel are only as good as the weakest battery but both batteries charge to "Zero" on the amp meter on the battery charger and hence telling me "I'm full". This problem "mainly" only happens below 40 degrees but did happen on summer day once, but quick jump and she leaped to life. You can pretty much count on it happening below 40 and that is what is puzzling me. As far as turning over slow ???? it does seem that "POSSIBLY" it may be turning over a tad slower but almost non noticible and with the jump from the Dually it should have fired. How does one check power packs, what the heck is a power pack ? Coil I presume ?? Also you mention batteries should be of the same size ??? That's a new one on me. Why ? They used to be the same size but when I replaced the older ones (group 27 or 29 ?? can't remember) I put one group 31 as the main with 1320 CCA. It is the heaviest battery I have EVER picked up. Both are those Glass lined marine batteries. Now my Basscat Cougar only has one battery and it is a 250HP and she fires fine but battery is infinately closer to motor. Looks like I have to find a real good Merc man to cure as I need this motor to fire for the very late fall bite. The day that the Opti 200 didn't fire at 38 degrees, next day temp was close to 50 and she fired, not quickly but did. This has been an ongoing problem for a few years now it's just this past time that a jump did not fire her.

I have had my 21' Mako w/the Opti 200 for 5 years now. Boat is not that old, think 2012 or so. It has always been a relatively good starting motor however except for just a few occasions, most (but not all ) being in the colder late fall weather. On those occasions the motor turns over but simply does not fire and quickly drains and needs a jump. Upon jumping it fires immediately. I suspected batteries so replaced with BIG dollar "glass lined" boat batters. It has two and both are in front lower compartment ahead of steering wheel. I replaced with one 1000CCA and the other 1320CCA so when A/B switch is switched to both theoretically I have 2350 Cold Cranking amps. Even this did not solve the problem as again this past late fall when temp was 38 degrees she cranked and cranked but did not fire and this time when I pulled her out of water and jumped off my F350 Dually (which has 2 batteries) she did not fire and I gave up. The boat batteries were JUST CHARGED that morning and amp gauge on battery charger went to zero indicating batteries were fully charged. All connections are ABSOLUTElY spotless and super clean. I have NOT taken apart the A/B switch to see if there is any corrosion but the boat is not that old and I am guessing not the issue. Do these switches go bad ? Someone advised that since boat batteries are a LONG way from the motor (14' guessing) because of long cables to compartment in front of driving wheel thinking maybe a drop of voltage, but having 2350 CCA should overcome that I would guess. Others state maybe Mako did not use heavy enough battery cable and to switch to double Ought. ?? In summer warm weather starting is great..... There is a conneting "block" in the bilge area where battery cables coming from front fasten with eyelets and opposite side cables heads out to Optimax 200.... that block is mint clean. I found NO corrosion so far. I have not checked ground in/on Opti block but supposidley marina did and all looked good. Can anyone shed any light as to what the problem might be ? I would assume Optimax's will not start under low voltage but I have 2350 CCA !!!!! These batteries are monsters. One group 29 and one group 31. brand new. Boat did the same with older batteries so guessing that the batteries are not the issue. Plus everytime the problem arouse I quick jump and the Opti leaped to life EXCEPT for this past fall when it was 38 degrees. Hope someone can help......

Thanks for the post ...... I have a Helix 10 Mega w/Side imaging. How does the 360 work/compare ? Are their any advantages to my set up ?

This fishing season has just ended and I am already chomping at the bit for 2019. I'm fairly new to the game, a few light years of freshwater fishing....so wish to get some help/suggestions from the veteran fisherman. Anyhow, just replaced my Minkota Fortrex trolling motor with the new Ultrex that has the spotlock feature. I do not have any marker buoys and not sure if I even need any since I have GPS and Spotlock. Would their be any application or reason that I would need to have a marker buoy or two. If so, any recomendations on brands or styles ? or would a homemade one be to any advantage as i have a TON of lead pyramid sinkers, bank and flat sinkers of nice size. They are cheap enough to buy but if one could make a superior design marker they that would be the way I would go. I just don't understand how they do not let out line in semi rough water till it reaches the end of the line which by they might place buoy well off target. Thanks,

A-Jay and Francho..... great but what knot are you recomending for both ends. i take it that it is slimmer, stealthier than the crimping sleeve method ?

Hello, I joined 2 clubs since my previous posts..... a Bass Fishing league and a Fly Fishing league. Our first "outing" with the Bass club is a Northern Pike team tournament. I have never fished for Northerns but have all the needed lures but I do realize that a steel leader is necessary. Was going to use some of the "steel" leaders that I already had but was advised by one of the guys in the club that going Titanium was the way to go. Softer, some stretcj and more flexible allowing better lure action. So...... I purchased two 15' spools of leader. One of 20# and one of 30#. Not sure best way to prefab up some 8" to 12" leaders though. Know you can buy some double barreled furrells and crimp them which is common but was thinking to keep it smaller and "stealthier" was thinking of possibly just using one "single barrel furrell" and looping the titanium back in and crimping. Attaching a snap swivel (or maybe just a plain snap) to the loop at one end which will affix the lure then the other probably just leave the fabricated loop or maybe add a ball bearing swivel to that loop on the other end which will then be tied to braid. The question is: I am not sure what size furrells to purchase (ID). Ratings on each Titanium wire are: 20# wire is rated at .35mm (mic'd up at .0013") 30# wire is rated at .38mm (mic'd up at .0015") If I were at a Tackle shop I could easily "eyeball" the inside diameter and pick correct size but I'm going to order online so would like to know which "style" ferrules to use (single bbl or dbl) and correct ID. Can anyone advise best rigging technique and possible sizes to buy. Also, is it imperative that I buy one of the "crimping" tools or just use Electrical crimping tool. If so, any brands recommended as there are quite a few out there from cheap to expensive. Also, possibly rigging with out using Ferrules might be a better option (ie. Modified Albright ???) and if that is the best way then maybe I might pursue that. thanks,

Your comment "consider a boat handling course if on big open water"....... I did not know they had such a thing. I have been boating on the Cape for 4 years and boating on inland lakes much longer than that. Is this course for very first boaters that don't know diddly or can someone that has boated on the ocean for quite a while learn anything. I don't mind taking a course but not looking for the simple basics and such. Where are these courses listed and taken. Thanks.

50% of the time for me on the boat it's Heavin and hoeing.... 40% of the time for me it's when my girlfriends on the boat it's "humping and pumping"... and the last 10% of the time when I'm on the boat when I have had a few too many beers it's "shuckin & duckin'

Just bought the Basscat a year ago so basically only one "light" year of experience Bass fishing with the new toys (boat/rod & reels). Bought quite a few rod/reels, many per suggestions from this site and now wish to add one more finesse setup but having trouble determining which one to get and could use some advise. Plan on focusing a LOT more this coming year on finesse fishing. The only two finesse rods I currently have are: Wright and Mcgill - WMESRMSH72S1, 7'2", Fast, 1/8-3/8oz., 6-15lb., (marked Shakey Head/Senko on rod) BUT listed as a "drop shot" rod on all of the online store sites. NRX 842S SJR, 7', Fast Medium, 1/8-3/8oz., 6-12lb. (listed as "Soft Plastics / small jigs) Even thought both rods list throwing the same weights....he W&M rod and the NRX feel pretty different. The W&M is very wippy and soft (parabolic) while the NRX is quite a bit more stiffer but much more sensitive and accurate casting is a breeze. I use both for drop shotting & Texas rigging. (have not tried shaky head yet) I was considering buying another finesse rod POSSIBLY for drop shotting (labeled specifically as such) but not positive if that would be the best move. Since I will be focusing much more on finesse fishing I like the idea of having three rods rigged up on the boat ready to go, possibly: 1 rigged wacky, 1 texas senko & 1 maybe creature/lizzard option. Would assume I should lean towards spinning rod considering application and most likely rig with a Stella. Since I am still new at this I would like to get some suggestions from the members on wether they feel my consideration of another finesse rod (possibly drop shot) makes sense, or... considering what I have already as far as rods....if I should be considering a slightly different application of a finesse rod considering the 3 rigged soft plastic setups I wish to have ready on the boat listed above ..... what do you feel would be my best option. I believe I have all of the OTHER necessary applications covered (topwater, jerkbait, deep cranking, lipless cranks and such) with the other rods I have, but again... if anyone feels I am lacking in a certain area I would very much welcome their suggestion/s on what I should add to the collection, possibly with the application and a specific rod/reel brand per such. I have been looking on the Net at high end drop shot rods. The ones that seem like they might be a nice choice I have listed immediately below, however if anyone feels that there are others I should consider, please by all means advise. I am looking for shear quality and not real concerned about price, I would say if I found some really really sweet I would go up to $650. I am a big fan of diversity so I kind of like the idea of adding a new rod brand to my collection, one that I do not currently have, regardless of it's application, but that is NOT set in concrete and I WOULD get another of same brand if it ends up being my best option. The few finesse rods that I thought would be a good choice are: NRX 822DSR Phenix K2 or Phenix Ultra MBX S700L or S700M Hi end Megabass (possibly Destroyer) Not sure what specific models to consider... St. Croix Legend Elite or Extreme (LES76MLXF) (I already have two St. Croix's but they are for my Saltwater fishing) *** ?? Also would assume some of the elite rods from overseas (JDM) might be a nice choice but don't know specific brands/models..... The rods that I currently have are listed below so you know which rod brands I would prefer not to duplicate BUT will if ends up being my best option. Megabass OROCHI XX - F4.1/2-68xx Jerkbait special (6.0 Metanium reel) Kistler Z-Bone - LEXF-4MH-73 (6.3 Daiwa Zillion SV TW reel) My all purpose rod Steez STZ-741XHFBA-XBD (7.1 Steez ST TW reel) Frog / Topwater rod Dobyns Champion XP - DC 736 C SH - (7.1 Steez ST TW reel) 2nd frog/topwater rod) Dobyns Champion XP - DC 806 CB - (5.0 Abu Garcia Revo Winch) Mag/Crankbait 10XD rod) NRX 842S SJR - (Daiwa Certate reel) Soft Plastic/Jig rod Wright & McGill - WMESRMSH72S1 - (Pfueger President 6930 reel) - Drop Shot / Shaky Head Fenwick Eagle - FE60L (6' , 1/16 to 1/8oz, 2-8#) Trout rod St. Croix Avid Inshore, 7' , MH/Fast, 10-20#, 1/2-1 1/4oz. (my saltwater rod) St. Croix Avid Inshore, 7', H/Fast, 15-30#, 3/4-2oz. (other saltwater rod) In regards to the Phenix K2, I know it's blank is highly touted and used in customs as it is super light and extremely sensitive BUT read a few guys snapped their rods super EARLY for no apparent reason so that scares me a lot. Was thinking of calling Phenix personally to discuss.... ?? I look forward to hearing any suggestions anyone might have, Thanks..... Fishraptor

Appreciate the comments..... hummmm....very interesting. O.K. couple of comments..... You state "hardness" is not a factor in distance..... I didn't do all that well in Physics class but my instincts tell me that "all else being equal he who has harder guides "theoretically" should cast farther. So..... you further state that ring height, size and progression are the factors....... so..... what won't the Torzites do that the KLH do ? I'll assume you can get the Torzites in the same height, size and progression as the KLH's..... or is there a design difference between the two (shape). I was told the Torzites are extremely light which is a plus.... Redtop led me to believe that by just changing to Torzites I would be able to feel the difference in lightness of the rod ... if that were in fact true that would be a good thing. The ONLY reason I use the 30# braid instead of the 20, as that is all you need for Albies is the fact that I am terrified of latching onto a huge striper one day while fishing for Albies and loosing it because of the lighter line, which I know I should be able to handle a big fish but .... so that is why I run 30#. Small tight FG's are not a problem. I have never had one fail........which I am very proud of. That stress test you refer too..... even though my TFO 8 1/2'er only has 6 guides on it..... it bends in a perfect parabolic smooth even bend, not sure if that is guide placement or characteristic of the blank. So..... who is qualified to look at my TFO and determine if in fact it is "as good as it's going to get" or......" definitely room for improvement. and just like Jurassic Park.....we spare no expense.....

I do agree with you Scott regarding the "more guides = more friction"..... BUT if your rod is not set up correctly (wrong guide layout) you will loose distance and adding more guides to correct that problem will enhance your casting distance. Guides set up correctly control the line "spool" which in turn adds distance. Bad line slap on a guide will do more harm than the friction of an additional guide to two. So your theory of "more guides ='s more friction is not always the case. You have to control the line. Scott if your theory was 100% correct we all would have just a few guides on our poles 3 or 4 but that is not the case. Also you need the correct number of guides to allow/make the rod bend evenly. And regarding you comment about the knot connecting the mainline to the leader, I agree totally and that is just one reason I use the FG, it's the best.

Read your reply..... wonder what steps I would take to "determine" if the factory guide setup is working optimally on my TFO rod...... and yes I do realize that the Alconite are best bang for the buck, but both the SIC and Torzite have them beat. The gent at Redtop Tackle said just by changing guides you could lighten up the rod a lot and it would be noticible. Just that in itself to me would be worth the cost. I just do not know if a better guide which will be harder will increase casting distance, even minimally due to less friction. I am going to guess that the difference most likely would be almost insignificant ...... but until I find out for sure I will continue to pursue. That comment you made about static testing determines the number of guides, not length is greek to me. Would like to know more about the concept. Let me side step her for just a moment....... If someone walked up to me and said they could build me a rod that would DEFINITELY out cast my TFO by a solid 10 to 15 yards using the same 3/4 to 1 1/4 oz lure I would just at the opportunity. I realize that one of the main keys is that you have to have the rod "load" fully to help you lengthen the cast and I would further assume that the material used in that rod I would have to have a very fast "recovery" to again help in casting distance. Then add the correct guides and of course the choice of spinning reel will also make a difference in distance. I am currently using the Stratic CI4 4000 which I ABSOLUTELY love. Extremely smooth and feathery light...... but spool size is not the largest and it may not be the optimal choice for distance but I wish to keep the rig as light as possible. When you cast for 6 to 8 hours it can make all the difference in the world so I doubt I will ever change reels. Plus the reel is burgundy and the rod has some burgundy..... you know where I'm leading.... it looks matched... The reason I like the 8 1/2 foot TFO is because of it's light wippy feel with nice power when you need it. The rod is classified as a surf rod but it has a relatively short butt for it's length so it has a regular spinning rod "boat" feel to it, not clunky. You can actually cast with one hand if need be. The last thing I want is a surf casting rod on the boat.

From what I've read and video's watched I would argue that point, I would bet the farm that guides COULD make a difference on a spinning rod and video's can prove it. Lighter line..... I am already running 30# braid, if push came to shove I could drop down to 20# but the benefit I believe would be very minimal..... and skill can only take you so far....