OCdockskipper

There is a lot of gray area between just leaving and the need to call the authorities. Interactions with other people are not so simplistic and usually don't fall into either extreme. Standing up for ones self is not "acting a fool" nor being "the worlds mommy & daddy". In a society where you interact with hundreds if not thousands of people a day, there are norms to behavior that are important but fall outside the jurisdiction of the law. For example, let's say a neighbor teenager toilet papers your house as a prank. Do you ignore it and just clean it up yourself? That invites the pranksters to do it again Do you call the cops and have the kid hauled off to jail? A little harsh response for a prank. I would suggest the best solution would be go over to the kids house carrying a trash can, ring his doorbell and when he answers, have a big smile as you tell him "I need you to finish what you started". Most kids will get a sheepish grin having been caught and will clean up after themselves. You can even bring them out a soda as they are working and lend them a ladder to get to some of the higher spots. By showing the kid respect but also that you will stand up for yourself, you gain his respect and he learns a lesson. The best example in the fishing world was given by NHBull earlier in this thread.

While I am all for everyone minding their own business, there is a point where silence equals condoning an act. Much of this thread is about at what point do you speak up to remind a person they are going against normal everyday etiquette of society. Acts like those which have been described in this thread are nothing more than aggressive behavior towards another person. Typically they are perpetrated by someone who has no issues trying to bully others so that they can get their way. As with all bullies, once you stand up to them, they melt away faster than an ice cream cone in July.

As a fellow Golden Stater, I have to say your Californianess is showing. The lakes & areas fished by other folks in other parts of the country are oh-so different than that in both Northern & Southern California, as is the culture in those areas about guns. To apply Northern California sensibilities to Alabama, Georgia or Tennessee is very narrow minded, even if we set aside the insults you threw in. If some dude from Oklahoma came on the site & started railing about what wimps people are on the West Coast because of their restrictive gun laws, he would be out of line. You did basically the same thing from the other side of the fence and it is just as crappy.

Even if 50 anglers jump, it shouldn't be a problem. Remember with B.A.S.S.'s new format, the Elite field will be 80 anglers, not 100. There has been such interest in fishing the Elites, that the 100 man field has typically been 105 - 110. With the guys on DL, there were 110 anglers this year. Drop 50 and that puts you at 60. There will be the standard number of new invites, a dozen or so, based on Open's performance. There are a couple dozen ex-Elite anglers who didn't perform well enough and got bumped down to the opens who might want a second chance. Add in a few Legend exemptions and they will once again be turning people down for the Elite series. Plus, considering the monetary changes and some of the anglers who will be gone, I think some anglers are licking their chops at fishing the Elites, at least for the first few years. Someone like Ish Monroe, a good angler who has been near the Classic bubble in the AOY standings the past few years, could find himself as a top 20 angler once you remove KVD, Amart, Evers, Hackney, etc (Ish is just an example, I think he may jump based on past run ins with B.A.S.S. and his friendship with Ike). With the talent level diminished (for a few years at least), it creates different reasons for different anglers to stay. B.A.S.S. made an error in not making changes a few years back to head off the MLF train. However, their recent response is solid and for alot of professional anglers, it makes sense to dance with the one that brung them.

In my opinion, that is the perfect response. It conveys incredulousness without being insulting. In fact, you are subtly giving him credit for knowing better.

They are both small (100 or so acres), electric only private lakes, literally surrounded by homes. For me, fishing Mission Viejo was never enjoyable because you were constantly being crowded and cut off (the lake served thousands of residents). Lake Forest is a bit of a secret because of the reputation & shadow cast by the behemoths caught in Mission Viejo. Plus, if you fish Lake Forest incorrectly, you will be lucky to catch 5 for the day, so most folks never believe the numbers I catch until they see me do it.

Mission Viejo Lake was, until an algae bloom a while back, a big fish factory. 80 ft deep, visibility to 20 feet, heavy fishing pressure for Florida strain largemouth that fed on hatchery stocked trout. You didn't catch a lot, but with numerous DD fish including a lake record over 19 lbs, your PB was always just a cast away. Meanwhile, 5 minutes away is Lake Forest, which looks similiar from the shore. However it is a completely different animal. 12 feet deep, visibility less than 4 feet with Northern strain Largemouth that feed on bluegill & crawfish. With nearly no pressure, you will get one or two between 6 - 8 a year, but it is a numbers lake. 25 fish a day is the average, with 50 fish days expected when conditions are right.

I learned that just because the bass have been keying on bluegill fry for the past month doesn't mean they will be this week. An early crankbait bite that slowed considerably as the sun rose didn't clue me in. It wasn't until a bass shot out from under a retaining wall in 12 inches of water to grab a fluke that I began to figure it out. I took a brown Senko, colored the tips Orange and began skipping it to gaps in the wall. The next bass confirmed what was happening by revealing a small crawdad in his throat when I caught him. The bass had changed their menu from bluegill to crawfish and it changed where they were & the best way to present a bait to them. It only took me 4 hours to figure it out...

While a case could be made for either over the other, you are cheating yourself if you only use one.

As I was thinking about which big name pros would jump from the Elite series to MLF, I thought of one that I think won't. Gerald Swindle fished for a year or so on the MLF Selects and then backed off (possibly injury related). He is an extremely loyal person and theoretically would be the Top Dog on the Elite Series if the KVDs and Amarts left. It would be interesting to hear his rants from the Elite stage if he does indeed stay.

There are a couple of colors of Ned Worms (Holographic Shad & Orange Crusher for example) that can't be duplicated with TRD's. If I need to have that color combination, I find the Ned worms to be very effective. Not near as durable, but effective. If a TRD has a color that can work, I prefer to use it.

What is this thing you call rain? Are you telling me that water actually falls out of the sky? I know my memory is starting to go, but I can't recall seeing such a phenomena.

I thought they would visit the West Coast in 2020, after having the 50th Classic back at Lake Mead. They could do the Classic & then 2 tournaments all in a 3 week period. Since all the pros will either be fishing or working the Classic, it would be less of a deal to have a couple of tournaments right after. With this cancellation, that plan may still be in order. If they do go back to the Delta, for heavens sake don't launch way up the Sacramento River. It forces the entire field into a 2 hour run both ways.

About 10% of the docks on my lake are floating because we don't have those water level fluctuations. The floating docks usually have gaps, skipping into them is like hitting the 5 hole against a hockey goalie. Once your skill level gets to a certain point, it is tough but not impossible.

I don't think live coverage will be an issue, I would expect it to be along the lines of a golf tournament. The are tons of cameras at PGA events so nothing is missed, but most of the live shots are of the leaders or those making a run. I don't see how any pro short of KVD would turn down an invite. The payouts and lack of entry fees make the tour similiar to golf & tennis. The current setup puts fishing in with things like Poker. I recall the original MLF mission statement talking of how MLF wanted to compliment the BASS & FLW tours, not compete with them. I wonder if that has changed. If this is successful, I think it kills the Elite Series but doesn't hurt the Opens. BASS started out with all tournaments being opens, they may be forced back to it. That might make the Classic similiar to the US open out here in the West, the last remnant of a past tour. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of melding of MLF & BASS down the road, like what happened with the NFL & AFL. BASS brings a large membership & history to the table while MLF will have the star anglers and the money. They are both better together than seperate.

The mistake in your thinking is that the two (being right & being considerate) are not mutually exclusive. There is risk in causing damage when driving on the freeway, but it would be absurd to tell people to only drive side roads. Docks can be fished with consideration, in a manner that leaves no evidence that you were ever there. One example has already been given, use weightless lures instead of jigs. Don't try & make casts that are beyond your skill level or that current conditions allow. Basic consideration of another person's property. Ironically, the only time I ever really get hung up near most docks is when a dock owner is inconsiderate, leaving dock lines or extension cords in the water. That is unsafe for everyone.

Docks are the cover on my lake & I haven't had a run in with a dock owner in years. I make sure to give a friendly hello to anyone near the water & I pull my buff down & remove my sunglasses to increase the friendliness of the greeting. I believe this has a positive effect over time, when I see these folks now, they have a healthy curiosity about how I get a lure in places to catch those dock fish. I also have told others in my boat to not make certain casts because it was too tight of a target. It is out of respect to the dockowners. In the OPs scenario, I would have suggested to say "OK", stop fishing, introduce yourself and start up a conversation. Get interested in the other person and you can ask if they have had issues with other fishermen in the past. If they say yes, agree with them & take their side. By separating yourself from those who are disrespectful to this dock owners property, you are now in a different group, a group that most dock owners have no issue with.

I think the question is at what point does being quiet, walking away and turning the other cheek become a silent condoning of other peoples actions? I'm not saying to start a battle every time an angler does something like this, there have been many examples given of smart and effective ways to get your point across to another angler without it rising to the level of a major conflict. There are some folks who will continue to be rude no matter what. However, I believe there are a large percentage who still have the concept of what is right & wrong buried somewhere inside them, sometimes it needs to nudged awake to help steer them back on to the proper path.

I hear you and you have the better mindset about it. My frustration isn't with the actions so much as the person believing that they can do such actions and not be accountable for it. Like you, I can fish behind folks and catch bass that they miss. It is the arrogance of their actions, summarily dismissing another individual and the etiquette involved in public interactions that motivates me to comment or take action.

I started this thread at the beginning of summer and have one more story to end summer with. This past Saturday I was out on the lake about an hour before first light. Later, just before the sun began to light up the sky, heavy fog moved in, nearly eliminating visibility on the lake. I was near the upper end of the lake when I heard a familiar hacking and clearing of a throat. Although I couldn't see anything or anyone, I was sure the noises emanating down lake were from an angler I playfully call "Emphysema Man". A little background on Emphysema Man. He & his partner fish our lake about once a month, also out of a small Pond Prowler. You always know when they are on the water, EM has a nasty cough and often sounds like he is getting ready to hack up a lung. While I have never carried on a long conversation with them, I have waved or acknowledged them in the past. I am pretty sure they don't live on the lake, for they launch their boat illegally from a greenbelt area hidden from view of the clubhouse and always make sure to be off the water before the association security is out & about. Before it was legal in California, they used to smoke pot in their boat (our lake is small enough that the smell would float from one end to the other). I never confronted them about the illegal things they were doing, they seemed to not be causing any damage and I thought that EM might be truly ill and that the fishing & pot may be a peaceful distraction from his pain. So about an hour later, the fog lifts as I am exiting a cove headed toward the front end of the lake. I see EM & his partner on the same side of the lake as me, about 100 yards behind me. I catch a fish and as I am releasing it, I notice they have pulled away from the shore and appear to be headed to the opposite side of the lake. I took that as a compliment, I thought they wanted no part of fishing behind me ?. As I get about 40 yards from the last point on the side of the lake I'm on, I realize that they haven't gone to the other side of the lake, rather they were just motoring up the center of the lake. I waved, they waved back. Then, to my surprise, they made a quick right turn and pulled up on the point that I was approaching, both firing out casts immediately. I was truly astonished. Now about 30 yards away away from the point I said out loud "Really?". The partner looked back and asked "What?". I made sure to keep my voice calm & measured and replied "You really are going to pull in front of me like that?". Playing dumb, the partner said "What do you mean?", to which I replied "You saw I was heading down this bank to that point and you chose to pull in front of me." Amazingly, the partner responded "It's a big lake, just go fish the other side." I jumped at the opening, saying "That's my point exactly, it is a big enough lake for us two boats, why did you feel the need to pull in directly in front of me?". The partner grumbled something, then said "Fine, we'll fish the other side" and they pulled up their lines and jumped over to the other side of the lake. Now I know there is a certain percentage of people who will believe that I should have not said anything and just moved to another location. To those folks, please note that I never told these guys to move, I never claimed water was mine nor did I ever say I wouldn't go somewhere else myself. Rather, I was just asking for him to justify his actions. I am assuming shame eventually kicked in, resulting in the begrudging move without any apology or explanation. I believe the main reason I chose to call him out (in a non-threatening manner) on his behavior was I am fed up with this kind of behavior in society. These guys have operated in a way that the rules don't apply to them (& I was complicit in the past for being silent about it). Last month, my truck was totaled by a woman who felt that rules don't apply to her. She was in this country illegally, was looking at her cell phone while getting off a toll road and blew through a red light, basically ripping the front end off my truck (a second later & I would have been hit broadside). Everyday on the road, there are folks driving in an unsafe manner for no reason than they believe the rules don't apply to them. I guess I have just had enough. If I was as smart as NHBull, I would have engaged them in a conversation before making my point like the example he gave. Unfortunately I still tend to react instinctively instead of intellectually. I am curious how the next encounter with Emphysema Man & his partner will go. I for one will smile and wave, how they react will be up to them.

I have broken 2 over the past 5 years, both my fault. The most recent one was just plain stupidity, I grabbed a Veritas by the tip in order to move it over a few inches in the boat. Snap. The other one was a comedy of errors. A couple of bass were pushing some minnows up against a retaining wall. I turned & quickly fired a cast to try to intercept them. I was so focused on the fish, I neglected to notice a large tree overhanging the retaining wall. My popper ended up about 25 feet in the tree. I couldn't free it, so I moved the boat under the tree to get a different angle. Getting frustrated, I stupidly gave the rod a hard yank. Simultaneously, the rod snapped and the branch broke, falling on my head. I sat there for a minute just laughing like a mental patient.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Just the other day I was trying to hammer a nail in the wall using a screwdriver and I just couldn't get it to go in. I think there may be something wrong with my screwdriver...

Because of bass fishing, I now have a full head of hair, more energy and a 22 year old wife...and the side effects are minimal if you don't count this growth under my arm...

...And you slept at a Holiday Inn last night...?

I have: Bertrand (4th after day 1) Hackney (91st) Jones Sr (19th) Card (86th) Schultz (81st) Blecchh!! My wife on the other hand: Palaniuk (43rd) Ehrler (20th) Combs (6th) Murray (15th) Walker (2nd) I'm trying to figure out how to swap our A bucket guys so she can have all 5 of her picks in the top 20. If Palaniuk can do a great day 2 turnaround like he did last year and and her other 4 hold serve, she just might be in the running for the event. Of course, I have the B.A.S.S. membership, so her win would be $2500 instead of $3K. Day 2 should be interesting...