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I think that what you have now is something like a 6'7" MH Mod. Should still be decent for short range crank baits and jigs?

I buy from US makers when it is to my advantage. Their job is to make sure that buying their product IS to my advantage. I buy grapes from Chile because I can buy them in April. When an American company can sell me a rod made in the USA that I like better than Megabass, then I will buy it. It's complicated economy. What do we do about cars? Do we put money in the US maker's pockets by buying domestic cars or into US auto workers pockets by buying Japanese and German makers who have outsourced their assembly here? Unless you have found some way to avoid buying everything else that you buy from China, why pick on Falcon? They are also an American company with American employees and were in fact one of the companies that held out the longest for American made blanks. So now you want to punish them because they can't get an American blank at a competitive price? (That is, if they can get any American blanks at all)

I try to buy USA made stuff too. But you have to realize that the Global economy is not just a random thing that happened. It is designed that way. The powers that be pretty much insist that you buy from overseas makers. It is designed to be the modern version of Mutually Assured Destruction. At this point, where you buy is almost irrelevant. It is how you vote that MIGHT be able to turn it around. Our specialty is software, grain, and making autos for the Japanese and German companies.

I understand the sentiment but what will you buy? There are so few rods made in the USA. I know that there is NFC and Batson making blanks here. And St. Croix. I believe that they are assembled in the US from Chinese and Japanese parts.

Aren't most saltwater reels sealed?

The one I have isn't even spined properly. Looks like the spin is down the left side of the rod. It is way too mushy and indistinct feeling. It feels like a slightly different rod every time I cast it, probably from the misaligned spine. As you said it is not sensitive in the least. I have a couple of old cheap graphite Johnson Century Combo rods from 30 years ago that actually feel better. I'm not an ABU hater at all. I have 4 Volatile rods and 4 Villains that I like quite a bit. Also 2 Veritas that are much better than the Vengeance, but I don't care for them either. They are pretty bad for a $100 rod. If you like them that's good enough for me. But from my experience I am curious as to some of the other rods you use that you are comparing them to. Or, maybe I just got a lemon?

I know we are all different, but I think that the Vengence is one of the worst rods I've fished since I used a old Tru-Temper telescoping steel baitcasting rod. I'd rather use a cane pole. I'm not saying that to be a snob or anything they are just awful rods. You can get much much better for 10-$20 more.

The expert is one of the best $200 rods I've used, better than some of my $300+ rods.. I never got a Cara, but a few guys who have tried both say they are similar and one or two said they liked the new expert better. Of course that is hearsay. I bought the 7' MF for one of my sons this spring as he is a big fan and I owed him a rod. Of course I used it for a few trips before I got to Texas to deliver it. I am really impressed with it. St Croix and Megabass will probably lose a few sales from me.

I wouldn't. they say oil and water don't mix, but that is not strictly true. Water and oil do mix and they homogenize turning into something that you can't drink and that doesn't lubricate for shizzle.

I like it, but then I'm kind of a "form follows function" sort of guy. I think ABU makes some decent higher end stuff. But like mostly everything else fishing, we don't get much of it over here in the US. In Japan ABU is highly respected and they get all kinds of very nicely done reels. I still prefer Daiwa though.

Falcon makes some very good rods at cheaper prices.. Ditto the Eagle...

try 7 Seas Pro Shop in Thailand. They have tons of major Craft Rods and many others not available in the US. Including a lot of rods by Abu, Fenwick, Daiwa etc that you probably didn't know they even made. The fishing rod selection available in the US is embarrassingly narrow. 7 Seas have decent prices and they are known around the world...(except the US, of course. WE get BPS)

I don't that big of a spoon, but I do a lot of vertical spoon and jig fishing. Mostly for Striper and Hybrid Stripers. I use a MH 5'10 Megabass Jig Special for that. For vertical jigging you don't really have to worry about the weight ratings too much. To me the important thing is that is short and relatively stout with a short handle.

Maybe I am mistaking your meaning, but you said, "To me the topic is older reels that are good but cheap..... like quantum..... Abu Garcia." I like my gear and firmly believe that the money spent on the older stuff is better spent in general in terms of value for the dollar. I think the OP would be better off saving a bit more money and buy one of those old Steez reels for $200 than he would be spending $70 on a used Tatula or ABU. He'd still have that old Steez working just as it always has years from now most likely. Some of the new stuff is good too, but what I would call the good new stuff makes the $200 Steez seem pretty cheap. any one of my old reels can these days be had for around $200 and they are all better reels than say a brand new Tat SV/TW for the same price. The lesser used stuff will get you by for cheaper, yes. But it is money that you will have to spend again either because that cheap reel crapped out or you want to upgrade to something decent. With the quality of many $100 or less new reels today, it's hard for me to even consider buying anything else but older reels.

Good and cheap are both relative terms. I would see old Quantum and Abu Garcia as cheap yes. But not so much as good. To me a used OG Steez at $200 is a good reel and it is cheap compared to the price anything as good would cost new. You're welcome to your cheap and good. But you won't impose yours on me.

Hmmm... I see that you are correct on that. I guess it morphed some.

It probably is an alloy. Pure Aluminum and pure Magnesium are rarely used. Ordinarily they are alloyed. Magnesium with Aluminum, and Aluminum most commonly with Magnesium and Silicon. I notice that neither Daiwa or Shimano call their material by a standard name, instead they refer to them as "Air Metal" and "Hagane". I doubt that they would be willing to out their actual materials used, but I'd bet that they aren't busy at either factories mixing up batches of proprietary alloys. Well, This whole discussion isn't about strength is it? No surprise to me that no one is posting data on various strength properties. we are discussing vibration transmission and damping characteristics. I posted as about as much technical gibber Jabber as I figured most people reading would, (or perhaps more to the point, would want to read). This is after all a fishing forum, not an engineering forum. We could I suppose we COULD discuss whether dampening in fishing reels is best expressed as the tangential angle between stress and strain vectors trying to get a read on inter-granular friction, or the relative blunting of wave peaks under forced oscillation, or maybe even the co-efficient that represents the reduction of the wave's amplitude as it travels along a material...But I don't think it would attract to many participants...Fishing reels and gear noise Mick..

Sort of depends on whether the vendor is willing to make it their problem doesn't it? Some places are willing to take things back just to make the customer happy. That is usually Bass Pro's policy, and I see no need for a guy to keep gear he doesn't like just to satisfy some unstated ethical ideology, when the vendor invites the exchange. Bass Pro is anything but a helpless victim in the world of fishing. If they don't want to exchange it they won't.

Hmm. The low resonant frequency of Mag. means that it's response curve is more linear and so, predictable for a wider range of frequencies and at lower frequencies. Important stuff when it comes to designing vibration test rigs, or structural parts that have to have some sort of external damping applied it in order to control vibration.That said: Both materials in their unalloyed forms, are highly effective transmission mediums for vibrations. A material doesn't just pass vibration at it's resonant frequency, it simply dampens less at that particular frequency maybe even to the point where a material's transmission factor is greater than 1 due to the effect of standing waves, making it an amplifier at that one frequency. (Anyone who has heard a microphone squeal uncontrollably has heard the effect of a standing wave at the resonant frequency) However nearly all frequencies will travel through both materials with the more massive material Aluminum absorbing more vibration that the lighter Magnesium. Of course certain alloys have much higher internal damping characteristics because of the changes in crystalline structure, imperfect grain boundary structures that allows more grain boundary friction, and etc. Adding Aluminum to Magnesium makes it a relatively efficient damper. I would bet that any fishing reel using Magnesium or aluminum are made of an alloy. I would think maybe MG,AL, and SI carbide ? I would say that while the resonant frequency would be a significant factor in structural design of many things, it's a moot point in fishing reels as the vibrations are so weak compared to the strength of the material and the fact that a fishing reel is not subject to prolonged vibration at any frequency, let alone the resonant frequency. Anyone who has used either an Aluminum or Magnesium reel can tell you that both in fact transmit vibration. Largely through the internal parts to the handle I suspect. but even there, the lighter material would provide less damping than the heavier through contact with the bearings and etc. So a Magnesium reel in fact would (and does) allow the user to feel more vibration. Ask anyone who has used both.

Actually, it works the opposite of that. An XF tip is the softest which allows the rod to get into the backbone higher up the rod whereas a Moderate tip, being stiffer will carry more weight and require more force to bend the rod into the backbone. Here's a couple of charts:

I would try cleaning it real well. I've had 3 of these and they were all severely over greased at the factory, literally grease everywhere. Don't know if that is the same problem that you have, but cleaning the excess grease out helped mine.

I have noticed that although the ABU handles will fit the Daiwa reels ( both are 8mm x 5mm) the hole for the retainer screw will not usually fit the Daiwa retainers. Not a big deal really, you can either use the ABU retainer and screw or order one of the ones from Hedgehog that has small slot instead of a round hole. Those will fit either.

Magnesium is a very rigid material. The downsides are that it is kind of brittle in that unlike steel, it won't bend and spring back to shape as steel will. It behaves more like cast iron in that it just cracks and breaks. Not much of an issue in fishing reels where it makes a very rigid frame. The Downsides for some people in fishing reels is that it tends to have what many call a "hollow feel". you can feel every little vibration of the gears and bearings. I kind of like that. It's like the difference between driving a big old '75' Eldorado Caddy and a 944 Porsche. Some folks like the cushy smooth of the Caddy and some folks like to feel the nuances of the road. And, has been said, it is not compatible with salt at all. If you have even a small scratch and it gets salt water in it, the reel with very quickly start to rot away and there is no way to really stop it. It does however burn very spectacularly. Kind of like phosphorus.

LOL....that's pretty much how it goes around from what I can see.

The reels I use are almost all older reels. 6) TDZ 4) Steez OG 4) Px68-R I do also have a Tat SV TW and a Tat CT-r. The only reason I bought those were because I needed something heavy so that a couple of ST Croix LTB sticks I bought would not be so out of balance. They are OK...but they don't really hold a candle to my older stuff, almost all of which have upgraded spools, ZPI bearings, Carbontex, and bling. I wish that I would have bought a couple of old Zillions instead of the Tatulas. I have a Revo SX G3 that gets used for nothing but trolling and a Pfueger Supreme XT that I use for the occasional Carolina rig. I see nothing better in the newer stuff to make me want to throw aside my old reels that are in tip top shape. I think while the spools, drags, and brakes may have gotten better in some cases, the quality most certainly has not and the spools etc can be upgraded.