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I'd add the Falcon Expert to that list.

In my experience, most Daiwa rods seem a bit heavier than their rating leads me to expect. Not sure if is the the rods or my expectations that are off though.

You are probably right on that point. But just as that is one difference, another difference is that force is transferred through an object differently depending on its shape. That is why an XF tip is usually thinner than a moderate tip. The shape makes a difference. Each factor makes some difference materials, process, shape, guide placement....all of it. That isn't really up for debate that is settled physics. There are plenty of combinations that work well and plenty that don't. Everyone comes to prefer some combinations more than others. I'm not sure what the argument here is.

Hmmm...I guess to call the rods comparable then you'd have to be comparing rods that are made exactly the same as each other? LOL Of course you can get good rods in either style. In fact I said so already. My point is that there is a difference between the styles. I am not "summarily excluding" anything. I have and use both styles. But even if I was, why would I care because I would be excluding rods that I didn't like by buying the ones I like best, which is something we all try to do with each rod we buy. I just don't think it is a complete coincidence the the rods I like best tend to be the thinner style of rods.

You can pick one out from across the lake just by how it moves through the water. On a calm water day a Gambler at top speeds will have maybe only a foot of boat in the water. The other 20' is hovering 6" above and almost completely parallel to the surface. Its almost looks like it is levitating. The pad design they use is special. I think that Bass Cat might be the only other maker that uses any sort of concave racing pad like that. Of course that comes with a very special chine walk too. Heck, our 2006 was a little over $30,000 2 years ago. They are built like no other boat and hold value pretty well. Many of the Gamblers on the market have been recycled, some more than once. It seems they get used to a point where they will sell for $10K-12K, they they get refitted and come out again at $35,000.

Surely, the materials are just as important and there cheap poorly made rods made both thick and thin, but I wouldn't say that "it all depends" on it. It Let's say that each rod is made of the same material. They will still feel different. They can't help but do so. The taper of the blank is what defines the characteristic of a rod. It's power, it's action, and it's strength etc. Ask St. Croix. Their IPC technology blanks are are all about how the blanks transfer forces down the rod based on mandrels machined into polynomial curves. Other makers will choose to make that reduction to the tip in discreet steps, joining more cylindrical sections with fixed angles, or who knows, maybe using a different type of poly curve. Good rods are made in a lot of different ways. I'm not saying only thin rods are good, or that thick rods are best. Just that it is a factor that can be felt when you use the rod. And I think one that people develop a preference for.

No, but they do feel different. One of my sons and I were discussing this same thing a week ago. Both he and I like the thinner style because they feel more agile and lithe. The thicker style rods feel clumsy, rigid, sloppy and slow to us. The thin rods to someone who prefers the thicker rods always seem to be lacking backbone, fishing light for it's rating, too floppy and wimpy etc. This is something I wonder about when I'm reading all these threads asking for rod recommendations. No one ever asks about the preference of the person seeking advice. I know that this is a real thing and that it does matter because just about everybody I've talked to about it DID express a preference for one style or the other.

I have never been a competitive Fisherman and never want to be. No one will ever accuse me of being a great fisherman and I really don't care much if I ever become one. Nothing wrong with either of those things, just not for me. I have spent my whole life in the Telecom field as an engineer and am fed up with striving to learn and competing to get better. Now, I am just wanting to do things that let me relax my mind. I'm not choosing gear because of how I think it makes me look. I buy what ever strikes my fancy and if it feels good to me I use it. No more or less to it. Your Gambler looks like it might be earlier than our 95. It's hard to tell though. I'm basing it pretty much on the squared off ends of the consoles. Yours look a little more square than our 95 which is a little more square than our 2006. Great Boats I've attached a couple of pictures of our 95, can't find any of the 2006 on my computer.

I had a Daiwas Crossfire 2-pc 6'6"MHF Bait cast rod that was surprisingly decent. I bought it in a lot of assorted gear and didn't expect it to be any good. It wasn't overly heavy, thick and stiff as I find most of Daiwa's rods to be. Can't speak to the Crossfire stuff in general though. I have 4 Trions that I use on my Spider rigs for Crappie fishing. I like them and by no means am calling them bad reels. I agree that they are a good choice at the price. But I also have a couple of the Daiwa Revros reels too, and they are better reels than the Trions I think. But I think that they are about half again as expensive too. I have a bunch of Presidents, also decent reels, but I would choose the Revros over those as well and they are on the same price level.

I agree that the Eagles are good for the price rods. I don't care much for any of the HMX or most of the HMG Fenwick I've had, But the cheaper Eagles I like so far. I have an 8' UL rated up to 6lb line and 1/4oz lures that I use for walleye with small curly tail jigs that would probably be a hoot throwing plastics for small mouth. I'm not a fan any of the cheaper Daiwa rods I tried except for a Laguna MLXF 6'6" spinning rod I have. It feels sensitive responsive. Most Daiwa rods feel way too rigid for my taste, but this one is just right.

I have a few duplicate rods. I have 3 ABU Volatile ML 6'10" XF they have the same reel, Daiwa PX68R, but the reels all have hugely different spools so they really aren't the same rigs. Likewise I have 3 ABU Villain 6'6" MHF rods. I like them a lot. One is a spare, one has an OG Steez w/ Zillion SV spool on it and the other a TD-Z w/stock spool, so they are not the same rig either. I tend to build a rig for every different thing I want to do. I probably enjoy that almost as much as fishing them. One of my sons does it differently. He will usually buy 3 exact copies of each rig he has and will just rig them with 3 different baits. he says he likes being able to put a rig down and pick up another with a different bait and not have to adjust to a different feel.

I like the OG Steez reels too. The J-dream is on my short list too. Sure it cost extra to fix some of them up, but if I end up spending a total of $400-500 on these reels to end up with a like new customized one of a kind reel, I'm good with it. I figure I am getting a significantly better reel that I would be getting spending the same money on a new reel. That's not so for ALL older reels, but that is what makes some of the ones we're talking about worth buying.

Just a few of the things that I didn't expect much for the price and that I ended up liking quite a bit. The Daiwa Revros 2500H being one of them. Another is the 11'2" Mod. action BPS Crappie Max rod I put it on. a Fenwick Eagle 8' UL-Mod. action spinning rod..Both of these rigs are great for early spring Walleye on rivers below dams, throwing 1/8 oz. spinners ashore during the shad spawn, and of course Crappie spawn. Falcon HD rods and Falcon Expert rods. I went on a trip with my son this spring and we swapped gear for a day. I was blown away by how good these rods really are. The HD is better than any cheap rod I've ever fished at $70 and better than most of the <$150 rods I've used. The Expert gives my ST. Croix, Daiwa BL and some Megabass rods a run and it's only $199. KastKing Sharkey II spinning reel. I once ordered 6 KK reels at once just to see what the buzz with these guys was. The 5 bait cast reels I had no use for. This Sharkey spinning reel on the other hand, while it won't replace your Stradic, did compare very well with the rest of the cheap but decent spinning reels I have such as the Pflueger Presidents, Trions, Revros etc. Daiwa Laguna 100 reel. Sure it's a cheap carbon frame BC reel, but it works very well, and seems to hold up to long term use. It's a great reel for beginners. I've got a couple of them NIB stashed away for the Grand kid's first Bait casters. Daiwa Laguna 6'6" ML XF spinning rod. I don't much care for any of the other cheap Daiwa rods I've tried. But this one I liked. Most of the cheaper Daiwa rods feel like broomsticks to me. The XF tip and 6-6 length on this one somehow made for a surprisingly light and sensitive rod. There have been many more, but these come to mind easily.

Yeah, kind of depends on what I'm going to do with it. I have a couple of TD-Z that I use with stock spools and a PX68R that gets a lot of use and the stock spools are great.

I guess the rigs that I like best, that I use and enjoy the most are: FIRST: Megabass F3-1/2 6'3" Xti Evolution Super Griffon, Daiwa TD-Z fitted with a ZPI-PG-1 spool. 12lb P-Line Floroclear. I'm probably using either a Bomber "A" or larger Texas rig. It just feels great. Runner up: 6'9" ML Regular Daiwa Black Label with a Daiwa PX-68R (stock spool). I run 8lb Floroclear. I've probably got a small Texas Rig Lizard, A Yozuri-3D, or a Rapala 1/4 jointed shad. THIRD: Megabass 5'10" F5 MH Jig Special rod with a Daiwa TD-Z with a stock spool, 12 Lb Floroclear, and using either a Cotton Cordell silver jig or a 1oz lead vertical jig.

Sorry for the confusion. Good idea with the Ceracote thing. I have a few old TD-Z's that I've been trying to find someone to paint. They are among the smoothest reels I own but have had much of the finish worn off from use. I've seeing a lot of OG Steez reels going for under $200 that look pretty good except for some boat rash and etc. Sure, it might cost a bit to bring them up to date with spools and bearings etc. But in my opinion the build quality of the old TD-Z and STEEZ reels has never been improved upon so it is worth it.

I don't know you at all, and wasn't trying to insult you. it's just that the one phrase keeps coming up about the fish not caring what gear you use (you are not the only one who's said it). Obviously there is way more to being a good fisherman than how nice your gear is and I'd bet that we all know an old hand or two who could catch more and bigger fish than we ever will with a beer tab and some baling twine. But see, that isn't the point either. If I waited until I could catch more fish than some old salt who knows more than I ever will, I'd be fishing with my old Johnson Century pistol grip combos the rest of my life. I hope you are seeing my point. There is no requirement to "deserve" better gear either. The point is that I go fishing for the enjoyment I get from being out there and doing it. If I catch fish..then so much the better. Having nice gear to use while I'm doing it adds to that enjoyment. Why is it that this always seem to require some sort of justification? As if the only legitimate reasons one could have are things like catching more fish. And the other side of the story is that the people who for some reason can't or won't afford better stuff don't need to justify their situation either it by saying that the fish don't notice or proving that one can be a great fisherman with cheap gear. I'm going to retire within a year or two and will be in that boat too. My goal is to buy the nice stuff before I do and then try to make it last as I spend way more time using it. Like I said I do not know you, but if you are a Gambler man, I like you already. My son and I had a 95 Intimidator, then sold that and bought a 2006 (same color and everything) and still have it. That boat needed the trim tabs. Best hull on the water I think, I'm glad they are making them again. We never got to 80 quite but we have done 77-78 with an Evenrude 225. The old one we got to 74 (IIRC) with a 200Mec XS.

You know I hear this all the time from the guys who like cheap gear. I don't quite understand why people say this. As you know we are all free to do as we please with our fishing gear and money. Speaking for myself, I don't buy gear for the fish, I buy it for myself based on what I like. You are calling yourself Captain Phil so I'm assuming that maybe you are running a guide/charter service? If so, I totally understand why the cheapest functional gear is what you'd buy. But when it comes to your own pleasure why deny yourself the little perks? Who cares what the fish like. People all over the world catch fish with a ball of twine wrapped around a stick and a hook. I go fishing for the pleasure of it and like it or not using great gear is more pleasurable to me (and many others) than is using the cheapest gear that still works.

Read it again. The Steez is a $500 reel. we are talking about reels in the $150 dollar range. My point being that for $150 I would rather buy a boat rashed used Steez (a $500 reel) than I would a brand new RevoSX or whatever.

I will go maybe $350 for a reel and $650 for a rod (so far). Typically though I look for a mint used $500 reel for $350 and a mint $650 rod for maybe $350. That said I have 12-13 setups like that and then another 19 or so that are considerably cheaper that I bought while discovering that, "Yes, I can tell the difference between a $200 rod and a $400 rod". I should sell some of it, but that is such an inconvenient thing to do.

Relax I was trying for a little humor, cheap vs. Inexpensive...Get it. But if you want to be all serious then let's. The Truth is that ALL of the rods we are discussing here are cheap fishing rods. I could have bought 10-15 of any of them for the price of one Megabass. Or 5-6 of them for the price of a used Daiwa Black Label. A mediocre St Croix would set you back 6 Airds. Not trying to play the "Gear Snob" card fellas, or disrespect anyone's opinions here, but let's keep a little perspective OK? Nothing wrong with fishing a $60 rod if you prefer the quality and feel to the expensive stuff, or if you can't afford the better stuff. Or even if it is simply that you are cheap. It doesn't matter to anyone but you really. BUT...please don't jump onto my case for trying to keep it light while I suggest the best cheap rods that I have used. My experience is as valid as yours is and given the fact that I've worked my way up through the cheap stuff to the top stuff might even give me a pretty good perspective from which to judge the cheaper stuff.

If you bump your budget up to $70 you could check out one of the Falcon HD series. Most of the other ones named are just cheap fishing rods...the Falcon is merely inexpensive. It's better than it's price point. 2nd best that I know of at that price are probably the Fenwick Eagles. The Berkley Lightning feel good, but the materials and builds are cheap. But, it would be good as long as it holds up. Some do and many don't.

I just re-spool, but then again I don't use reels that take 140 yards of line. I never could understand why so many fishermen in the US feel they need so much line when as someone pointed out, half of it has never seen the water. Most all of my reels take 70-80 yards of line. I can get at least 2 full spools from each bobbin of line. After that I don't care as the line will be to old to use anyway. US bass fishermen.... 8' rods and reels that hold 150 yd. of line... The rest of the world.....6-7' rods and 90 yd. of line...???

Actually, Smith IS a well known brand...Just not so much in the US.