RDB

For some strange reason we seem to be going in circles. I AGREE with you. I have said multiple times that I agree one fish may be present. I have also said that the majority of anglers do not have the equipment that these researchers have and typically do not know the numbers of fish present. I’m not talking about researchers/studies. For what it’s worth, just because there is one fish present today when I look at Livescope doesn’t mean there won’t be more tomorrow. Frankly I’m surprised they need new studies to verify that one fish may be present at any given time...it’s not controversial. Good to know my fishing license purchase is going to such worthy studies ?. As far as Ivie, the fish were not caught 40-60 feet deep...they were caught mostly on Alabama rigs suspended in specific spots much higher in wood and it is not known what the water temp was at whatever depth they were holding (though probably not the warmest). And that was not the deepest water in the lake...that lake reaches depths of over 100 feet . And the water wasn’t frozen. I know a number of TPWD folks and I have not heard that the weather was the determining factor as to why the fish were in those spots. As a matter of fact, I have had discussions with a number of folks much smarter than I who are thinking that these fish may spend the majority of their lives in these deeper water areas. I am one of those that thinks that is a possibility.

No wonder they are always sold out. What is the name of your eBay store? ? ? ?

Fair enough...I was probably making some assumptions as well. I guess my main assumption was if he was going to use leader for glides & swimbaits only, why even include frogs in the question. I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume that the inclusion of frogs without other clarifying information might indicate the question of leader use was for all 3 applications. Edit: There are a lot of things people say they do on this board that I would have thought were rare ?.

Was the distinction made in the post? Where exactly does it say he would be using braid only for frogs? It says he would be using a specific rod and reel for glides/swimbaits and frogs and wanted to know what leader to use. If you were the buddy referred to and had unshared information that could influence feedback, why wouldn’t you or the OP clarify when asking others for advice? And if you are the buddy, why not say so when you said he was using braid for frogs. I wouldn’t have said you assumed and this whole convo could have been avoided.

As far as Ivie, I think that is your assumption. These guys have been catching giants using this type of deeper approach for some time...Ben is a Livescope master. What they did at Ivie is not new, it just went viral and got people talking. I saw them shortly after doing the same thing at Joe Pool. A lot of the talk has been around a population of fish that spend the majority/all of their time in these deeper water locations that are often overlooked. As for the second part, I think we are agreeing. I have had some involvement in several telemetry studies in the past and that’s why I suggest that a one size fits all approach is the wrong approach. Some bass are resident, some migrate in a small range, others in a much wider range, some bass seem to have more of a loner nature, others seem to travel in wolf packs. Can a spot hold one fish...absolutely. Can a spot hold 50 fish...absolutely. Can you be sure without some sort of live imaging (which a small percentage of anglers have)...not very reliably. Even telemetry will not tell you if other fish are present.

Video please ?

Lol...I think you have made an assumption...I don’t see that distinction in the post or in the replies. It has even been suggested to ditch the braid and go straight mono. People use braid to leader for multiple reasons and while your assumption may be correct, there is certainly nothing in the post to suggest such.

My experience is that as soon as you start applying rules to a creature that doesn’t follow rules, you limit yourself. I have seen shallow water cover hold many fish, just like I have seen it hold 1 fish. Remember, if you can see a bass, a bass can see you. As far as mid depth, this past Friday I fished a clear, highly vegetated lake and found the fish relating to rock/gravel spots the size of a car surrounded by weeds in 7-10’ of water. I could toss a drop shot to the bare spots and catch anywhere from 1 to 10 fish off a single spot. I probably caught 40 bass running that pattern. I often find groups of bass in 4-12’ of water. And yes, the majority of bass move in and out of these environments. While every lake likely has a population of “resident” fish, the majority of fish in a reasonably sized body will transition throughout the year in a wider range than would be considered resident.

I agree that there are times when a spot can hold only one fish. I also believe a spot often holds multiple fish. The overall use of Livescope is still small and telemetry even smaller. In my opinion, when you hear about fishing 1 bass spots, it typically refers to a place that you have a high chance of picking off at least 1 fish...not necessarily that there is 1 fish there. It’s just semantics. As far as resident fish, I think what has been going on at O.H. Ivie is making some rethink what they consider fishable water. If you have read the news or seen the videos, Millikan and Zark were catching monsters in 40-60’ of water suspended in wood in February (during our terrible storm). I think their 5 fish bag for the day was 60ish pounds with a 16.4 and 2, 12’s. I believe it is quite likely that some of those fish spend the majority (if not all) of the year in these areas and probably rarely see a lure.

That is how I use my leftover as well (though I only use mono on topwater walking/chugging type baits). Speaking of mono with frogs, I also agree that there is less stretch in 8’ v. 40’ of mono but there is still a surprising amount of stretch and I don’t want any on a long cast. There are also other qualities of braid that are important in frog fishing. Braid can help slice through vegetation and help keep the fish pinned. I believe frog fishing (in the traditional sense...not chunking in open water) is the one technique where there is no exception to the rule on line. I don’t think you will find 1 pro that would introduce mono in their setup.

When I hear people talk about spots, I think about specific coordinates. When I hear patterns, I think about specific conditions/behaviors. I would consider a random isolated pile of rocks a spot. I would consider things like bass holding on the deeper outside edges of boat docks or bass relating to wood in less that 3 feet a pattern. A pattern is something you can run across the lake based on conditions/behaviors that day. As far as “1 fish spots”, I think people typically mean a spot where they feel confident that they can pick off at least one fish. I don’t think it necessarily means there is only 1 fish there (though there could be). The challenge with fishing today is that there are not many secrets anymore. With modern electronics, it doesn’t take long for many of the spots to become community holes. Local knowledge is still an advantage but not to the degree it used to be. Winter frog fishing in Florida...add that to the plus side for retirement destinations.

I wouldn’t have mono anywhere near my frog setup unless it was backing for braid. Braid 100% of the time but if you must use a leader, go with fluoro. It’s hard enough to get a good hook set on a long frog cast without introducing mono into the equation.

The reason I asked about length was because if you are a pretty good skipper, shaving a few inches of rod length might not have a big effect...at least for me it didn’t. I learned with a 6’8” but now am just as accurate with my 7 footers. As far as the Conquest, I had the 7’, 3 power and it is an awesome stick that will skip all of the lures you mentioned well. I will add that mine snapped on a hook set fishing a small finesse jig but Shimano replaced under warranty (sounded like a gun shot). I ended up switching out for credit.

Line twist is most likely your problem. Tie the end of the line to something, let out 20-30 feet (or more), and with the bail closed and the drag tightened, give it a little stretch and the coils will disappear. I also believe you may have a problem with loose line. If you enlarge your pic and compare to MN Fisher, you can see that his line all runs in the same direction and is consistent. On the other hand, your’s is running all over the place...up, down, diagonally. You need to make sure that when you are reeling in slack line, you are holding some tension with your off hand so it is laid on the spool properly.

Do you skip now and if so, how long are the rods you have been using? What is the weight range of the jigs you are planning on skipping?

There is no one way to fish a swimming worm. You can buzz them topwater, swim like a traditional swim bait, or drop into vegetation or wood and fish like a Texas rig...all in the same cast if you choose. Fish can be moody like my wife so sometimes you just have to figure out what they want.

As far as leverage, I think it’s just semantics. It takes approx. twice as much effort to lift 1 pound with a 10 foot rod v. a 5 foot rod. However, all else being equal, the 10 foot rod will move the lure 2 times farther and 2 times faster than the 5’. I think when pro’s and manufacturers talk about “leverage” in longer flippin’/pitchin’ type rods, they are talking about the hook set (velocity and tip travel). Whether leverage is the correct term is debatable. However, if I had to choose between minimizing the effort exerted during the fight or maximizing the likelihood of getting a good hook set, give me the hook set. The other benefit of longer rods for these underhanded techniques is that you can improve accuracy and distance with longer rods.

Before this weekend, I thought my 7’4 flippin’ rod was perfect but Saturday a boat pulled in behind me and a guy picked up a rod that had to be over 10’ and started pulling bass out reed pockets I couldn’t touch. Kind of looked like cane pole fishing. I would have asked about it but I was too butt hurt that he was catching fish in my used water. Now I’m in the market for a 11’6” NRX.

Got it...I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the bass guys used these alternating mono to fluoro tapered leaders as well and I couldn’t imagine the purpose. I don’t know much about the fly world. Thanks for the clarification.

I use them for larger swimbaits but have never tried with a skirt. I would assume they work fine as they have a skirt collar. If you haven’t used before, they have a larger, heavier gauge hook. They are quality heads.

Just curious...have your bass guys shared their reason for tapering their leaders this way?

Agree...99% of the time it’s the only control I touch. The only Lew’s I own and it’s on my deep crank rod.

I am fine with tape. My baitcasters hold from 100-120 yds. of 14 lb and spinning from 160-220 of 8 lb. With largemouth & smallmouth, I have never been remotely close. If I were to ever let that much line out without chasing the fish down, shame on me. That is a LOT of line. If you have a fish big enough to pull that much line, an arbor knot isn’t going to save you.

Rookie Didn’t watch the video but I’m going to switch from scotch tape to masking tape. Much easier to get off the spool.

Guessing you broke your other gaff landing the fish in the pic.