chelboed Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'm trying to wrap my mind around this for a second. If we're coming up with more effective brakes...what's the point of putting faster bearings in a reel? Won't you just need to turn up you're centrifugal or magnetic brakes even more? Example: My reel generally sits at around 5 on the mag brake. Why would I want an even potentially faster free'er spool? So those of you who shelled out $45 for ceramic Boca ABEC 7's...why didn't you just turn your cast control / spool tension down? What kind if distance increase are you experiencing? Is it consistent? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Scott F Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 So you can get even more impressive backlashes. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ahhh, catching on to it I see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelboed Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 I would think the best place to increase casting performance would be longer spool to levelwind distance (BB-1), T-wing, KR Concept...or maybe line type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lower startup inertia, consistent casting with less effort, and contrary to what many think, better bearings in many cases actually require less braking. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 My ceramic bearings are lighter than steel bearings. Startup is easier I do believe and with less weight, run on is lessened some. And on some of my reels I have both magnetic and centrifugal anti-backlash braking, but I keep the magnetic on zero and use only 2 brake shoes and my thumb. I seem to get a little more distance out of a reel this way. I like that my spools spin easier with ceramic hybrid bearings, maybe it is just a confidence improver if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User Jrob78 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lower startup inertia, consistent casting with less effort, and contrary to what many think, better bearings in many cases actually require less braking. I've found this to be true as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelboed Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 1- lower start up inertia I can buy if you're casting light lures...but above 1/4 oz...I'm less likely to bite. FFF: I would think you would have more consistent casts with your magnet than your thumb. Thumb-draggers would be difficult to be perfectly consistent even if only due to varied outside shape of your lines spool due to line overlap. (Not being argumentative at all...just discussing the engineering of it all) So how bout raw data. How many yards can I expect out of super zoot bearings? (This is a good topic, I'm diggin' it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 1- lower start up inertia I can buy if you're casting light lures...but above 1/4 oz...I'm less likely to bite. FFF: I would think you would have more consistent casts with your magnet than your thumb. Thumb-draggers would be difficult to be perfectly consistent even if only due to varied outside shape of your lines spool due to line overlap. (Not being argumentative at all...just discussing the engineering of it all) So how bout raw data. How many yards can I expect out of super zoot bearings? (This is a good topic, I'm diggin' it) Most backlashes occur at the beginning of the cast, think about why, and what type of braking is more effective during this part of the cast. Improved casting distance is one of the lesser benefits of improved bearings. You should be able to cast somewhere close to 40 yards using stock bearings and baits in the 3/8oz range, ceramics lessen the effort required to achieve this same distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 FFF: I would think you would have more consistent casts with your magnet than your thumb. Thumb-draggers would be difficult to be perfectly consistent even if only due to varied outside shape of your lines spool due to line overlap. This is interesting because as I understand it, even though I may have the magnets backed off as far out as is possible by a zero setting, those magnets can never really be turned off and are always "on" as magnets, so the question arises, even though I am using a zero setting is it truly a zero effect? But, now that you mention it, I guess I am saying I prefer the centrifugal brakes over the magnetic braking as more effective, because the centrifugal brakes really only work on the front side of the cast (highest spinning speed where I need it most) while magnetic braking tends to be most effective on the tail end of a cast (I am told over on TT), but for me, that is where my thumb kicks in when the centrifugal brakes are waning and I want to control lure placement at the end of the cast. But I will do some experimenting with this and try turning off the centrifugal brakes and work with trying to dial it in with just the magnetic braking and see if I can find some use for it within range. If I get some nasty rat's nests with my braid line I know who to blame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 I've been plenty satisfied with my Arb bearings, I have used ceramics as well, the pitching seems a trife easier with ceramics, but the noise factor is a turnoff and I don't see the advantage.When I replace bearings now it will more than Likely be with Abec 5 stainless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 FFF, can you give me a quick rundown of how you believe magnetic brakes work to slow/control spool speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 I've been plenty satisfied with my Arb bearings, I have used ceramics as well, the pitching seems a trife easier with ceramics, but the noise factor is a turnoff and I don't see the advantage.When I replace bearings now it will more than Likely be with Abec 5 stainless... What are Arb bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User new2BC4bass Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lower startup inertia, consistent casting with less effort, and contrary to what many think, better bearings in many cases actually require less braking. I also find this true, but if I am going to invest in better bearings, I also get the reel tuned although it is my understanding there isn't a lot that can be done to a Daiwa. Every reel I've had this done to runs with fewer brakes on. Even when I am trying to throw hard. The little extra noise from ceramic bearings doesn't bother me. In fact I find it an aid in determining spool speed and thus when I need to use my thumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 FFF, can you give me a quick rundown of how you believe magnetic brakes work to slow/control spool speed. I found this description online: http://www.stripersonline.com/t/391062/how-do-magnetic-casting-reels-work "A spinning spool, with a conducting metal in close proximity to fixed magnets, will create a disturbance in the magnetic field(s) of the fixed magnets, and this disturbance is called an "Eddy Current". It won't work with graphite or plastic spools - only spools that can conduct electricity. If you have a plastic or graphite spool in your reel, you can add a disc of aluminum or copper on the end nearest the magnet(s) and it will work." ----------------- "I asked my wife, who has a physics degree about it and she said that a magnetism and electricity are very closely related. A magnetic field is essentially an area of static electric currents. If the spool spins consistently with the polarity of the magnets, it will actually be assisted in spinning, if it spins counter to the polarity of the magnets, then a drag will be exerted on it. In other words, a counter clockwise spin may produce acceleration and a clockwise spin may create drag on the spinning conductor." -------------- "I'll try and be as non technical as I can here.... The phenomenon of magnetic damping has to due with a principle in Physics called Lenz's Law. When a metal disturbs a magnetic field, an electric field is produced in the metal. This is what happens in dynamos that are in use in hydroelectric plants. The better the conductor of electricity the stronger the electric field. Thats why aluminum is the choice even though it's not ferromagnetic. Now... The electric field in the spinning spool sets up it's own magnetic field. This magnetic field is such that it causes a force opposing the direction of rotation. Therefore... the faster the spool turns... the higher the electric field produced... the greater the opposing magnetic field... the greater the breaking force. The reason this works so well is that as the spool slows down... the more gentle the breaking... it's like having the most educated invisible thumb built into your reel! You may want to consult a high school general physics text, or do a search on Lenz's Lawe on the Web if you want to know more. I hope this helps somewhat. Prefessa" ***This description tends to contradict what I read on TT. If it involves the disruption of an EMF field created by the spinning metal (aluminum) spool, then the magnetic brakes would be at the peak effectiveness at peak RPM's of the spool rather than most effective on the tail end of the cast as the spool slows down as I read on another forum. I rarely engage the magnetic brakes and prefer to use centrifugal instead, but the magnets are always on and always there anyways and may have an effect even if turned to zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 What are Arb bearings? Lol, I know you know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lentz's Law, very cool, it's almost like magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaFishinFool Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 What are Arb bearings? Anti-rust bearings. Meaning, they are nothing more than rustable 440 stainless steel ball bearings that have been anodized with either a black or gold anodized coating to prevent rust. But keep in mind the anodized coating is only viable where it is not rubbed off, meaning, the anodization will rub off the ball bearings inside the bearing, and everywhere they touch rendering the anodized coating virtually useless inside the bearing. This is why oil is needed in them too! But the anodized coating looks nice even if does not do much of nothing where it is really needed most- inside the bearing where all the action is. ARB bearings is in no way an improved bearing. It is just an anodized regular old SS ball bearing and nothing more. And the anodized coating does not make it spin or operate one iota better than regular non-anodized bearings. It is just a sales gimmick more than anything else since the coating wears off where it is needed most on the moving parts inside. The very fact that someone would go through the trouble to anodize a SS ball bearing indicates they are trying to prevent rust. But, if the anodized coating is worn off all moving parts rendering it useless, then what was the point of it in the first place? Sales gimmick. I have shimano reels from the mid 1980's with regular old 440 stainless steel ball bearings that are as new today as they were 30 years ago. No anodized coating. Not needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yes, that was a interesting read a few weeks back aavery2, no doubt interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lol, I know you know.. I know, but I wanted you to say so that anyone who is less familiar with the acronym would be able to follow along better and not mistake Arb for a brand of bearing like ZPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Oh, I didn't say they were overly special ( ARB ) just that I'm content with them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User alonerankin2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 I know, but I wanted you to say so that anyone who is less familiar with the acronym would be able to follow along better and not mistake Arb for a brand of bearing like ZPI. Yup, good point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 So what makes ceramic hybrid bearings better than ARB or are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User tomustang Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Graphite is a conductor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super User aavery2 Posted January 25, 2015 Super User Share Posted January 25, 2015 Anti-rust bearings. Meaning, they are nothing more than rustable 440 stainless steel ball bearings that have been anodized with either a black or gold anodized coating to prevent rust. But keep in mind the anodized coating is only viable where it is not rubbed off, meaning, the anodization will rub off the ball bearings inside the bearing, and everywhere they touch rendering the anodized coating virtually useless inside the bearing. This is why oil is needed in them too! But the anodized coating looks nice even if does not do much of nothing where it is really needed most- inside the bearing where all the action is. ARB bearings is in no way an improved bearing. It is just an anodized regular old SS ball bearing and nothing more. And the anodized coating does not make it spin or operate one iota better than regular non-anodized bearings. It is just a sales gimmick more than anything else since the coating wears off where it is needed most on the moving parts inside. The very fact that someone would go through the trouble to anodize a SS ball bearing indicates they are trying to prevent rust. But, if the anodized coating is worn off all moving parts rendering it useless, then what was the point of it in the first place? Sales gimmick. I have shimano reels from the mid 1980's with regular old 440 stainless steel ball bearings that are as new today as they were 30 years ago. No anodized coating. Not needed. So why not use 304SS or 316SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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