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Improved Palomar For Braid Question

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I've seen videos on tying this knot two different ways. One way has the looped line going through the hook eye once, the other twice. Both versions have two overhand knots over tag and main lines prior to inserting hook through the loop and cinching down. Logic tells me that twice through hook eye would be stronger, but is it that much stronger? Would you use twice for lighter lines and once for heavier?

 

Thanks....Joe

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Link to pics or vid?  I'm having trouble....trouble envisioning it, trouble figuring out why....trouble imagining tying a knot that goes through the eye more times than a palomar already does with aging eyes and hands. 

Palomar knots with slicker 'n snot 12# Gliss don't slip, so I've never wanted for something more complicated

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13 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Link to pics or vid?  I'm having trouble....trouble envisioning it, trouble figuring out why....trouble imagining tying a knot that goes through the eye more times than a palomar already does with aging eyes and hands. 

Palomar knots with slicker 'n snot 12# Gliss don't slip, so I've never wanted for something more complicated

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi5n9v_ktPjAhUJ0KwKHUlVCfYQwqsBMAB6BAgJEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DplWiMa1hla0&usg=AOvVaw0eJK7mAPt63r5vAqyN3Rkm

 

 

Here ya go.

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Thanks.  Hope it works for you.  I still don't see any value at all for me.  In fact, I'm not even certain I could pull all that tight without a pliers.

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It ain't easy! The Salt Strong guy has another one with the run of the mill palomar for braid!

Run of the mill for me.

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Why bother? Never had a Palomar fail in 30 years of using braid.

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56 minutes ago, 5/0 said:

I've seen videos on tying this knot two different ways. One way has the looped line going through the hook eye once, the other twice. Both versions have two overhand knots over tag and main lines prior to inserting hook through the loop and cinching down. Logic tells me that twice through hook eye would be stronger, but is it that much stronger? Would you use twice for lighter lines and once for heavier?

 

Thanks....Joe

I’m another that has ever had the normal Palomar fail with braided line. Has it been a problem for you that you feel the need for a stronger knot?

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Solving more problems that don't exist.

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1 hour ago, Scott F said:

Has it been a problem for you that you feel the need for a stronger knot?

No, not with other lines, the straight palomar was fine. It's that I have never used braid before and in the past I would not try to get into heavy cover. That's something I would like to try in the future and thought I would need a heavier palomar knot. But Mr. Francho's point is well taken!

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2 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Thanks.  Hope it works for you.  I still don't see any value at all for me.  In fact, I'm not even certain I could pull all that tight without a pliers.

Tried it and your assumption was pretty much my experience. Revert to the good ol Palomar and everything is just fine. I didn't have much line break at the knot since using Palomar anyway...

 

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Solving more problems that don't exist.

If it's not broken, don't fix it... We sometimes fix it till it is though !

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Can the same be said with a improved clinch knot and braid?

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Never had a regular ol Palomar fail and I frog in HEAVY slop.  

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Yes, a bit of unintended misdirection in the original question/comment. The line is doubled and passed through the eye of the hook in BOTH cases. But, just once. The only difference is that in the so-called "double Palomar," there is one extra wrap.

 

The real value of a Palomar, other than its simplicity? It is the fact that when you double the line and form a bight (a loop), then make your little granny knot, then pass the bight back over and around the hook, it:

 

1) anchors the knot better, this over a knot terminating in a cut off tag end;

2) and, it has two lines through the eye.

 

For the latter, imagine hanging with one arm from a chinning bar, with 4 fingers, then 3, then 2, then a single finger (if you can). The more fingers, the more the load is spread out. A Palomar has "two fingers" around the bar (hook eye) instead of "one finger" like most knots.

 

I've tied the double Palomar, likely stronger, but I agree with others: it solves a problem that doesn't much exist. 

 

I'm a uni knot guy anyway!!!

 

Brad

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