This is strictly my un-researched opinion given to allow thoughtful disagreement:  the number of wraps around the standing line of a clinch, Trilene or similar knot is to provide security of the knot from slipping and coming apart when the tag is clipped short, and not to provide more strength.  A three wrap knot is as strong as a five wrap knot when the tag line is cut 1/2" or longer.  That's the current hypothesis I'm going with until convinced otherwise...

 

oe

If the tag slips, then it doesn’t matter if it’s next to nothing or 1/2 inch long tag...the knot integrity is gone and it’s only a matter of time until your leader and bait are going the wrong direction. 

Got my popcorn in hand. Let the festivities begin!!  Knots are one of the most contested and argued subjects on the forum. Always interesting to see the differing opinions and experiences. 

A factor to consider is the wire diameter the knot is being tied into vs the line diameter. The knot needs to be able to clinch tight without a space between the knot and wire.

For example tying a clinch knot using 4 lb  or .006D line onto a .062D wire yield very low knot strength and slips regardless the number it wraps or the tag end length. Using 14 on or .015D line onto the same .062D wire yields good knot strength without slipping fewer wraps.

Tom

 

When I used that slow to tie rascal 7 wraps were commonly accepted.  I haven’t used it since I discovered the Pitzen a long time ago.

Hmmmm. Like lynxcat, I consider knot slippage as knot failure. And fewer wraps can mean slippage; I discovered that ill shortcut on my own. 

 

Interestingly, line diameter does matter. The original Clinch Knot works just fine, even for big fish, if the line diameter is very fine (and presumably tied onto a fine wire hook eye). The Improved Clinch came out bc courser lines slipped. The Trilene Knot shouldn't slip regardless, with its 2 wraps.

 

Does more wraps make the line stronger barring slippage? I suppose one way to test would be to test different # of wraps with the original Clinch Knot. Testing maybe three diff line diameters, keeping hook wire roughly proportional.

2 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

This is strictly my un-researched opinion given to allow thoughtful disagreement:  the number of wraps around the standing line of a clinch, Trilene or similar knot is to provide security of the knot from slipping and coming apart when the tag is clipped short, and not to provide more strength.  A three wrap knot is as strong as a five wrap knot when the tag line is cut 1/2" or longer.  That's the current hypothesis I'm going with until convinced otherwise...

 

oe

 Looks like you may have slipped on over to the dark side ~

Right past indifference and smack dab in the center of attention to detail-town.

 

A-Jay

 

2 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

This is strictly my un-researched opinion given to allow thoughtful disagreement:  the number of wraps around the standing line of a clinch, Trilene or similar knot is to provide security of the knot from slipping and coming apart when the tag is clipped short, and not to provide more strength.  A three wrap knot is as strong as a five wrap knot when the tag line is cut 1/2" or longer.  That's the current hypothesis I'm going with until convinced otherwise...

 

oe

 

I sort of agree.  When the tag end is 1/2" longer, fewer wrap is sometimes acceptable. You have a wide "buffer" for a slippery knot.  That being said, I never cut a 1/2" tag end. A tag end that long will have weeds/dirt wrapped all around it on almost every cast.  5~7 wraps and <1/8" tag end is what I usually do. 

 

Tighten the wraps no matter how many you make, or how long the tag. Use fingers to pull from top down to get the wraps wound together. Pull down on the knot, pull the tag. Pull knot, pull tag. Repeat until it looks like it's not going any farther.

 

Oh - spit first!

 

 

Karl

   This is exactly why I learned the San Diego jam knot!     jj

SDJ is one heck of a knot! Especially the Double SDJ knot. 3 tag ends!

 

 

Karl

21 hours ago, lynxcat said:

If the tag slips, then it doesn’t matter if it’s next to nothing or 1/2 inch long tag...the knot integrity is gone and it’s only a matter of time until your leader and bait are going the wrong direction. 

Yup, if the tag slips then your knot is done for. The only reason I leave a touch extra tag end (if I'm not fishing in weeds) than I otherwise could is so I can see that it didn't slip for my own self-assurance.