Hub Selection & Install Help?

[AJ Hauser]

Hey boys,

So not too long ago I posted in this forum asking for some help with my hubs. Today, I removed them. I would like to swap them out with new ones, and I believe these are a fit: https://www.northerntool.com/products/ultra-tow-xtp-ultra-pack-trailer-hub-4-on-4in-1250-lb-capacity-572041

 

My bearings are L44643, which measure 1" and show that inner diameter online as well. The spindle is straight. However, I'm not sure if these 2 large washers need to stay on the spindle with the new hubs? The one closest to the rear of the spindle seemed to be caulked into place - it was hard to remove... the small pieces shown in image 7 fell out when I took the hub off as well. 

 

I'm hoping that swapping for the new hubs will keep the rear grease seal from blowing out. Again. There is a slight gap between the washers and the back of the hub on the other side that you can see - I did not remove that one yet. Wonder if that's a problem? 

 

Any help would be appreciated - I'm way out of my element. AND... I do have jack stands now. Last time I posted that was strongly suggested so I just wanted to mention that

 

Thanks!

 

 

[TnRiver46]

I had to go to northern tool and equip 3 times to get the right ones haha, depends on the staffer back there in the hub section……

 

tractor supply also has them I believe 

 

they use the same bearing in several hubs so that can be slightly misleading 

 

 

[AJ Hauser]

5 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I had to go to northern tool and equip 3 times to get the right ones haha, depends on the staffer back there in the hub section……

 

 

Supposedly they're showing up tomorrow - so we'll see if they fit... o_0

 

[TnRiver46]

Mine has a different diameter for inner and outer bearing

[AJ Hauser]

Welp - they showed up today - we'll see how it goes. Happy Halloween! 

[Alex from GA]

Use enough washers to get the cotter key in the hole.  If the spindle has grooves worn in it there are Spindo Sleeves to repair it.  Grooves will allow the grease to leak out.

[AJ Hauser]

48 minutes ago, Alex from GA said:

Use enough washers to get the cotter key in the hole.  If the spindle has grooves worn in it there are Spindo Sleeves to repair it.  Grooves will allow the grease to leak out.

 

Got it - thank you - do the "spindo sleeves" cover the entire spindle, and are they low profile enough that they fit within the existing hubs & bearings? Like a tight fit right over the spindle? I'm actually wondering if I have some notches in those now...

 

Thanks! 

[Way2slow]

I have one suggestion, if you have access to a welder and know how, replace those spindles.  

I have been messing with boats and boat trailers for close to 60 years and I've never seen those on a boat trailer.  Northern tools sell the spindles also, but this is the type you should have, and notice, there is a shoulder that the seal runs on.  This picture is just one I grabbed for reference and not necessarily the proper size for yours.  Yours look like it's probably a 1500-lb axle.  The 1500-LB is usually a 1-3/8 diameter spindle.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/305214747397?campid=5338767525&customid=4581939849542915_710314500_o.952b981426cd117f0aa2fd55fd844c41&mkcid=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&toolid=20006&var=0  

 

As you can see, the spindles are cheap, having to pay someone to put them on is not cheap, unless you know someone.

 

Anyway, what you have, those two large washers will go on first, and then the smaller one and then that ring.  That ring is what provided the spacing to keep the bearing and hub off the big washers and the surface the seal runs on.  I don't see how that's supposed to keep water out, but going by the looks of it's age, I guess it worked somehow.  I just know I wouldn't want it.

 

Also, I seriously doubt you can get a speedy sleeve to work on that, with that spindle not having a shoulder the sleeve is supposed to fit on.  You might could press one onto that ring and it stay.  Another thing would be it might make the seal fit tight enough to make that ring spin on the spindle, which could cause it to start cutting into it.

 

To clarify, the repair sleeve will only go over the surface the seal is running on.  It does not and will not go over any part of spindle the bearings inner race is on. There is not enough clearance for that.  The outer part of that sleeve that goes on last and up into the hub is the surface the seal runs on and that's where a repair sleeve would have to go, NOT on the actual spindle.  The way that thing is made is probably the reason the bearings inner race was spinning on the axle and wore the grove into it and it looks like that ring was spinning also.  There is nothing you can do to repair that grove and the new parts are most likely still going to continue to spin on the spindle.  The only repair for that is to replace the spindles. 

 

I know you said you bought new hubs, I don't see anything wrong with your old hubs, that would warrant replacing them.  All your problems are with the spindle, not the hubs.  Get the right spindle and you will throw all those washers and crap in the back of it away.  

[AJ Hauser]

Dude! @Way2slow thank you so much for that info and for taking the time to write that! Ok, so the washers & crap are all starting to make sense. These were put in place like this: 

 

2 Big Washers > Smaller Washer > Smallest Wide Ring

 

You are correct. The smallest wide ring actually sits slightly inside the seal on the new (and old) hubs. I think that the highlighted red section - Section B in my image - on the spindles you linked would do the same thing, right? That's what sits inside the seal?

 

Does the left edge of the widest section - Section C - sit against the edge of the hub, or is there always some space there? I think this is what the washer / ring combo is trying to mimic - which makes me wonder if this old trailer was just repurposed or built and not originally meant for a boat? 

 

I added a few more pics of the trailer for reference. 

 

I popped the new hubs on just because I had them and wanted to go through the process and hopefully learn and retain a thing or two... but if the spindles are the issue, it sounds like I'm stuck for now. I am very curious to see if the new rear seals blow and I start flinging grease again right away, because the new hubs do not have the bearing buddies, just a dust cap.

 

 

[TnRiver46]

Bearing buddies are available about anywhere including wal mart 

[TnRiver46]

@AJ Hauser, ironically my smaller boat with dust caps never slings grease. My bearing buddies on the bigger boat have slung grease all over America, granted I’m a notorious over greaser. seals are overrated 😂 

[Way2slow]

That inner most ring that goes into the seal and against the bearing is doing the same thing as that section B you highlighted in red.  All those other washers behind that ring and only serving as spacers to get the hub out far enough to prevent the back side of the tire from rubbing the trailer.  The one smaller washer behind that ring going into the hub is also a spacer the keeps the back of the hub from rubbing on those larger washers.  That ring going into the seal is the sealing surface for the seal, but not being part of the spindle, it's can't fully seal between the spindle and the inside of it.  When new, it probably fit snug enough that it worked ok, but once worn some, it's going to spin on the spindle and cause it to even wear more and it's to let grease come out and water go in.  One thing, if do put new spindles on, make sure you have that RED should part out far enough that the back side of the tire has clearance from the trailer.

Now, typically, a 1,000lb spindle is 1-1/4" diameter, a 1,500lb spindle is 1-3/8" diameter, a 2,000lb spindle is 1-1/2" diameter and a 3,500lb spindle has two different size bearings, with the inner back one being large the outer one.  So, if you do decide to try and replace the spindles and since you already have the new hubs and bearings, get spindles that match what you already have on hand. 

 

There are typically only a couple different size Bearing Buddies for boat trailer, so the ones on you old hubs stand a good chance at fitting your new hubs.  

 

AJ, that's why they make those slip on Bra's for them.  You also have to be careful about putting too much grease in them.  You might find you get to the lake or back home and you notice you are looking at the greasy nut and junk on the axles rather than the Bearing buddy. Too much grease will push them off.  I've lost a few over years and always kept a spare in the boat because of that.   

 

[AJ Hauser]

Got it - thank you very, very much @Way2slow. I see Keith in your signature, so if that is in fact you, thank you Keith. You are a gentleman and a scholar! 

 

[Way2slow]

Not a problem, I don't mind helping when or where I can.  

I do sometimes get a little self-conscious about it.  I guess I'm fortunate to have a very broad knowledge base because I've always been of a very curious nature and constantly doing different things and not satisfied until I have mastered them.  That's why I am a master mechanic, have a degree in electronics, was a state certified welder, licensed HAVC person and very good with refrigeration, excellent carpenter, a very good gunsmith and build my own precision rifles, and know how to shoot very well, had a 211 league bowling average.  Make a pretty mean pizza in a large wood fired oven I built, and the list can keep going.  There's just not many hobbies I haven't had or have.  I even make very nice looking and sounding Native American Style Flutes. 

Because of this and the many different subjects I get into, I feel like sometimes I get thought as one of those "Know-It-Alls" so I've gotten where I try to stay out of a lot of topics because of that. 

I had a good doctor friend I took bird hunting a lot used to tell people I was the biggest liar on earth when it came to shooting, but somehow, I always backed them up. 

[AJ Hauser]

All good. I'm just a dummy that makes websites that likes to fish

 

Thanks again!

[Way2slow]

That's where you have one on me. Back in the late 80's and up into the early 2000's, I used to build my own computers and computers for friends.  I also did some programming in assembly language and C++ but tried to build a website for a business my wife had back in the late 90's and finally gave up on that idea.  Of course, they were nowhere near advanced as they are now.  

[AJ Hauser]

@Way2slow it's been a wild ride - I started building them (well actually, butchering code and cobbling them together) while I was in college studying philosophy because my band was broke and we needed one. That turned into building sites for other broke bands, and then when I graduated I moved back home with my folks - much to the dismay of my father - and started a business at the dining room table. 

 

Thankfully, it's worked out - but I'm pretty sure everyone in my life (including my girlfriend who is now my wife) thought I was crazy!

 

Good times

 

Have a great weekend!