Micro guide questions

[MickD]

12 hours ago, WRB said:

Realize guide ID’s vary with mfr.

That was my point above.  But the image is accurate in its point that with any reasonable line, the knot and not the line will be the issue with micros.

[spoonplugger1]

Asking the ID of a guide when your line is far smaller is about as relevant as asking what caliber bore is necessary to get the most efficiency out of a .22 LR shell. Would your line flow more efficiently in a straight line or in spirals?

[WRB]

My issue with micro guides is braid to leader knots that increase the line diameter about 3X plus tag end using bait casting rod with #4’s.  My solution is no knots using micro guides.

Spinning rods the smallest tip guide is #5 no issues.

Tom

[MickD]

16 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Would your line flow more efficiently in a straight line or in spirals?

It is my opinion (only an opinion) that that is one of the reasons why people like micros-

 

I think they cast farther for two reasons.  1.  the spiral vs straight issue 2.  The rod recovers from deflection (being loaded ) faster with lighter guides.  As I said earlier, this is easy to test for and get numbers comparing different guide trains.  The test is quite accurate and repeatable. 

 

And being lighter than most other guides, the rods built with them feel crisper, cleaner, more like a bare blank than rods built with heavier guides.  Of course when the mass differences are minor, the performance differences are minor.  And mass near the grip has little or no effect on recovery speed/crispness.  

[Sota]

In my mind. It seems a regular Titanium guide vs a stainless steel micro guide. They’d be pretty close in weight. A titanium micro would be the lightest of them. I’m not going to venture into the graphite guides. I’ve not seen them to say one way or the other.  

[MickD]

Don't forget the tiptop.  Titanium vs SS in micro sizes of tiptops makes a significant difference, too.  Titanium frame and tube, not talking about titanium plating here.

[Sota]

21 minutes ago, MickD said:

Don't forget the tiptop.  Titanium vs SS in micro sizes of tiptops makes a significant difference, too.  Titanium frame and tube, not talking about titanium plating here.

Mike’s please don’t confuse me and my 2 brain cells.  They’re having a hard fight figuring out who is going to eat who. 
  I admit I forgot about the rod tip. 
I’m wondering. Assuming same rod blanks and guides. Would adding more weight on the rid butt end make the rod feel more sensitive on the top? Like if you were to use a light weight reel on one rod. A heavy reel on another. Would the feel change that much? 

[MickD]

1 hour ago, Sota said:

’m wondering. Assuming same rod blanks and guides. Would adding more weight on the rid butt end make the rod feel more sensitive on the top?

I don't know.  It would change the balance, and if it improves the balance one might conclude sensitivity is improved.  But what is the definition of sensitivity?  I define it as the ability to feel a bite.  Is that yours? 

 

Most agree that the higher the power to weight ratio, the higher the sensitivity.  Some argue that transmission of vibration through the rod to the grip indicates higher sensitivity, and others contend that is not true.  One argument is that the longer the rod, the more sensitive, but without discussing power at the same time, I don't go with that argument.  A couple manufacturers say they have a "sensitivometer" device, but they are VERY reluctant to show it or discuss results.  Trika is an exception.  But their device is a vibration transmission device, and does that indicate sensitivity?  

 

True Natural Frequency is an objective measurement that parallels power to weight ratio, and in my experience, "premium" blanks generally have higher TNF than cheaper blanks.  But blank design is very important, and to conclude that all premium blanks have higher sensitivity than all cheaper blanks would be a mistake. 

 

This issue was discussed for about two years the last time it came up an another rodbuilding forum, and the gaining of consensus was never achieved.  Not even close.  

 

One thing I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that if one is not using braid they are not experiencing the best sensitivity possible (ability to feel a bite).  

[Sota]

56 minutes ago, MickD said:

I don't know.  It would change the balance, and if it improves the balance one might conclude sensitivity is improved.  But what is the definition of sensitivity?  I define it as the ability to feel a bite.  Is that yours? 

 

Most agree that the higher the power to weight ratio, the higher the sensitivity.  Some argue that transmission of vibration through the rod to the grip indicates higher sensitivity, and others contend that is not true.  One argument is that the longer the rod, the more sensitive, but without discussing power at the same time, I don't go with that argument.  A couple manufacturers say they have a "sensitivometer" device, but they are VERY reluctant to show it or discuss results.  Trika is an exception.  But their device is a vibration transmission device, and does that indicate sensitivity?  

 

True Natural Frequency is an objective measurement that parallels power to weight ratio, and in my experience, "premium" blanks generally have higher TNF than cheaper blanks.  But blank design is very important, and to conclude that all premium blanks have higher sensitivity than all cheaper blanks would be a mistake. 

 

This issue was discussed for about two years the last time it came up an another rodbuilding forum, and the gaining of consensus was never achieved.  Not even close.  

 

One thing I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that if one is not using braid they are not experiencing the best sensitivity possible (ability to feel a bite).  

To me sensitivity is being able to feel a fish bite or the bait as it bounces off the bottom of the river. 
 When I was fishing in Washington state. Before I knew better. I got a a Lamiglas Kenai special.  An 8’6” heavy rod. That rod took me awhile to figure things out. I tried lotta things. My go to for lure/ bait was a pink corky with pink yarn. I had to go to a heavy weight. A few feet up the leader I attached another line to tie the curly yarn. 
while I could feel the weight bouncing off the river bottom. I rarely felt the fish bite. I felt when the fish took line.  Not ideal.  
 Now that I moved to another state. I am wanting to try bass fishing. I’m looking for as much info as I can to find a good setup. 
 I started out thinking 250 ish budget for both rod and reel. That kinda went out the window. When I couldn’t find what I wanted. A med xtra fast micro guide. I’m not finding anything in the budget I was thinking of.  I’m thinking I might have to go custom or at least step up into something Mo money Mo money.