2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@F14A-B First, mineral spirits to penetrate the threads, then, proper hollow-ground driver bits:  

 

1 - hollow-ground screwdriver blade
2, 3 - cheap tapered screwdriver
4 - cheap tapered screwdriver at work
5 - damage produced by cheap tapered screwdrier
6 - hollow-ground driver at work

 

Never muriatic (hydrochloric) acid - that's exactly what you're trying to get out of reels using vinegar bath.  

Have you ever seen JIS screws in reels? I work on motorcycles on occasion and see so many stripped heads on screws because people don't realize the difference between phillips head and JIS head screws. Use a phillips head screwdriver in a JIS screw and you will destroy the screw head in a heartbeat.

9 minutes ago, Kirtley Howe said:

Have you ever seen JIS screws in reels? I work on motorcycles on occasion and see so many stripped heads on screws because people don't realize the difference between phillips head and JIS head screws. Use a phillips head screwdriver in a JIS screw and you will destroy the screw head in a heartbeat.

A lot of JDM reels use JIS screws, so it's good to have a +0 and +1 JIS on hand if you're working on said reels.  The Daiwa "death screw" isn't much of a death screw if you have the right tools.  Most people that strip them out are using Phillips drivers.

@Kirtley Howe

I have a set of JIS drivers, also a set of standard Phillips Wiha drivers (yellow top).  

Most PH1 on Japanese reels respond better to the Wiha driver than the JIS driver.  

When the going gets tough, I have a set of bits with 3 different tip shapes in PH0, 4 different shapes in PH1, and 4 different tip shapes in PH2 - they also work in my T-handle wrench

The bits saved me on a loctite'd PH1 that had already been damaged (destroyed) by the previous owner of my CV-Z,   (probably why he sold it)

When you have screws to replace for damaged heads, Bolt Depot is over-the-top for piecemeal fastener sales and service - they give tiny orders the same respect as industrial orders and post 1st class mail.  

32 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Here is my thought.  The spool attaches right to the main shaft, and the main shaft to the oscillator.  Pulling out of snags is the most likely culprit from what I can see.

Yeah, that's something I've never done, so it probably wouldn't happen. Still going to grab some spares.

1 hour ago, Eric 26 said:

Is that a picture of your personal reel?

Screenshotted from the web. Never grabbed the early BG because the D series were basically identical and the wooden knob wasn't my bag.

 

1 hour ago, Eric 26 said:

If so that’s in beautiful shape, although I know reels are tools I really don’t like scratching something I worked hard

I with you on that.

19 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Daiwa "death screw"

What is this? 

 

19 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

right tools

Which is what precisely in this specific instance? 

43 minutes ago, Banned User said:

What is this? 

 

Which is what precisely in this specific instance? 

The death screw is a small JIS screw used to fasten the driveshaft retainer to the frame on many Daiwa models.  Daiwa uses red thread lock to ensure it doesn't back out, which forms a semi permanent bond.  It's called the death screw because it's a JIS head which can be damaged using a Phillips if you aren't careful.  Worst case, the head gets enough damage that a screw extractor needs to be used for removal and a brand new screw installed.  A JIS driver fits the head perfectly and won't cam out when loosening.  A high quality Phillips does work, but you have to put more downward pressure on the head so the driver doesn't cam out, potentially damaging the screw head.  I have a pair of Japanese made Vessel Megadora JIS drivers, a +0 and +1, which covers most of those types of screws you'd encounter in a JDM, or even a Japanese branded USDM reel.  The Vessel drivers are high quality and run between $8-$10 each depending on where you get them.  

 

My best advice, don't cheap out on tools.  You don't need the most expensive, but also don't buy store brand stuff since they don't fit screw heads as good.  Any brand that uses German or Japanese tool steel will be your best bet.  American tool steel is of a similar quality but can come at a substantially higher price.  Wiha precision drivers, Wiha dowel punches, and Knipex pliers are what I use.  Avoid Harbor Freight, Cobalt, Husky, etc.  Look at Wiha, Wera, Felo, or Witte.  All higher quality German made tools that won't break the bank.

3 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Phillips

To get into my Daiwa reels I've been using a flat head

 

Thanks for the details on all that, I'll be looking into some of those tools/manufacturers.

 

I was just looking at some knipex cutters the other day, never heard of them before. But 75 bucks to cut wire a handful of times a year is a hard pill to swallow.

 

If I have to replace the knock off once a year will last me 6 years, every other year and I'd probably lose them before then anyway

1 hour ago, Banned User said:

I was just looking at some knipex cutters the other day, never heard of them before. But 75 bucks to cut wire a handful of times a year is a hard pill to swallow.

Amazon has nice deals on them from time to time.  Also check garage sales, a lot of retired electricians out there.  

Pawn shops are a great place to find tools cheap.

 

Estate sales too.

Speaking of pawn shops...

 

One of the rods and reels I got in a bundle deal today is a Penn Pursuit rod 7' MH F. I wanted the rod more than the reel, but it is a Penn SV5000. I knew it was a salty dog. The reel was frozen up. Locked up tight. Would not spin. So I spent the day bringing it back to life.

 

One of the hardest things to do is take apart a reel that the parts inside are frozen in place from years of rust and corrosion and do it without damaging any of them. Sometimes the reels are not worth saving. But if I can I will, and try and get some more years of fishing out of them.

 

So today's reel was far more than just a maintenance routine. More like a restoration ordeal. Take a look inside...

 

This AR bearing has seen better days! Like when it was filling up with saltwater and beach sand was probably a good day...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think around a dozen parts received an acid bath today to help remove most of the corrosion.

 

The main drive gear is eaten up but not by the acid. This surface corrosion damage is from years of saltwater contact. I left it in the acid for mere seconds. Not long enough to do anything to the metal. And a brass wire brush did not help much either. I used a dental pick to clear out sand and debris jammed down into the teeth, but no way to fix this surface roughness caused by saltwater. To make reel smooth again, new gears is the only solution. Its good enough to catch fish with as a beater reel.

 

 

This was the tricky part. This part- the AR bearing retainer- had to be cleaned very carefully so as to not damage the small delicate little plastic springs inside each bearing slot (dental pick is pointing to one of the small springs) that pushes the bearing back into place.

 

If these small delicate springs begin to fail, the anti-reversing of this bearing will begin to fail.

 

ADDED: And BTW, that little tiny plastic spring in each needle bearing slot is the reason grease is NOT used on most AR bearings. Grease literally acts like a glue keeping the needle bearings from moving into correct positions for proper operation. Shimano used to stamp "no grease" right onto their AR bearings. So oil only! And not super heavy viscosity oils. Lightweight machine oils or similar are recommended here. I use full synthetics only.

 

 

Shimano makes it very clear! NO GREASE in AR bearings! The spinning reel AR bearing shown below has steel springs to move needle bearings back into place, while the bearing cage retainer shown above has even weaker plastic springs which definitely does not get grease. Yet you would be surprised at how many people shove grease into AR bearings.

 

 

These parts just came out of the acid and thorough rinse. Have not been scrubbed, brushed or sanded yet. There is still some corrosion on the bearings, and AR bearing housing shows pitting inside caused by saltwater contact and where the housing is pitted is where the needle bearing sat for an extended period of time to cause some galvanic corrosion damage like this. But a little sanding smoothed it right out.

 

 

Some pitting on the needle bearings before sanding smooth again...

 

And the housing was sanded some.

 

Now its back together and working again, if I were to order parts for it I would order up new set of gears, a new AR bearing and that's about it. This reel won't look like new again and make the show and tell thread, but it sure does work good again, not as smooth as it once was, but its a good solid reel with some extra 'nine lives' years added back on. Trash turned into fishing treasure again! I was not going to let this $5 pawn shop reel beat me today!

 

And I did not have to replace a single bearing in this reel, so that was a bonus. Not sure if I am going to buy any parts for this reel. I might just use it as is, and see how far down the road my son can get with it. Another workhorse "beater" reel I never have to worry about.

 

 

Parts swapping in shiny brand new reels for the show and tell thread is no where near as fun as raising from the dead these old salty dogs! These are a real challenge.

 

I should mention that once I take apart a salty dog old reel, when it goes back together I put a thin coat of grease between the metal parts, outside of bearings and reel frame to prevent seizing. This helps it come apart down the road a lot easier than how I got it today. I had to hammer some of those parts out of there.

 

Tomorrow is looking like a twin curado day... and maybe get to a NASCI reel as well. And I am supposed to be retired! Maybe I'll start sending my salty dogs to DVT so he can have some fun as well!

8 hours ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

 

See the pink metal on the shaft - that's dealloying corrosion, it's how brass pits.  

Both copper and zinc dissolve, zinc salts out, copper re-plates as a structureless metal mat, which also traps more cupric chloride to corrode both this part and any part it gets spread to.  

Sanding didn't solve the problem - see vinegar bath.  

After vinegar bath, you can chase those pink spots with sanding and polishing, but the part will have changed dimensions.  

You are right!

 

That photo was right out of the acid bath and thorough rinse but had not been touched otherwise. I did not sand that part. I just wire brushed it as clean as I could get it trying not to damage it.

 

Its interesting the pink is only where the steel sleeve from AR bearing sat rusting away down inside there. I had to hammer it off. So is that a galvanic corrosion situation of two dissimilar metals? Both corroding at same time helping each other along?

 

I tried cleaning it all the way back to metal after that photo, then treated it with a military grade corrosion inhibitor to hopefully stop the corrosion process.

 

It may not be perfectly done, but I think this old reel could reel in fish for another good 5 years or more. A better alternative than the trash can!

 

I did not want to sand that spot because of the change in size as you noted might make the AR roller sleeve loose.

 

Its never a perfect world once saltwater starts eating away at reels.

 

Do you use a corrosion inhibitor in addition to lubricants?

 

This photo was taken right after I hammered off the AR roller sleeve.

 

And this one was taken right after the rinse from acid bath before any cleanup. It turned pink in the acid. I'm not a scientist. Just an old reel tech trying to make things work again if I can, but its interesting the things we run into inside of reels like this.

 

 

When I'm cleaning parts for reassembly, they usually get Boeshield swab and rub last, which is a mineral spirits swipe (the carrier), and leaves a corrosion inhibitor wax that is specific to aluminum, but also works for steel and yellow metal..  

 

Vinegar is acetic acid - there's no HCl in it, and HCl from cupric and ferric chloride is what you're trying to get rid of, not add.  It's also the right strength acid to passivate the metal surface.  

Caveat about magnesium - keep far away from all acids - the only thing that passivates magnesium is soap.  

So I should change acids? Vinegar is too slow for me. I don't want to wait hours on a part.

 

When you say "add" is that only when in contact with the acid? Once rinsed the "addition" is now gone? Can you explain a little more please.

 

Is this HCL addition only in relation to brass or all metals?

 

And when you say passivate the surface metal, not sure what you mean. When the part is rinsed from acid is there something harmful left behind? Should an acid neutralizer be considered?

 

Chemistry was not a subject I paid attention to in class. And I never made it to metallurgy class!

 

What do you recommend for acid besides vinegar?

Look again at this cross section and note the surface area in the dealloying pit is 100,000 times the original metal surface area - you can only clean that by removing it.  All residual deposits are a sponge for bad corrosion actors. 

Just looked up Boeshield. It said this:

 

"Boeshield T-9® dries to a clean, waxy, waterproof film that won’t wash off in rain, puddles or mud."

 

Is Boeshield military grade with mil specs? I did not see it if it is.

 

I use corrosion X who also makes reelX as well. 9 of their products including the one I use are all military spec'd products.

 

https://www.corrosionx.com/products/corrosionx?variant=45808527704309

 

I use this on most metals and especially steel bearings going into saltwater environments. I have never had a bearing rust up on me in years of use. And it does not dry out and turn into a waxy coating. The corrosion X stays the same on the items as it is in the can. It does not dry out at all and remains constant viscosity even in temperature changes. Its a 100% full synthetic top notch lubricant. It works really well. Here's the difference from what I can tell:

 

"CorrosionX is the only product readily available to the public that meets the U.S. Navy's tough new corrosion prevention and control performance requirement MIL-PRF-81309H.

 

Due to Polar Bonding, CorrosionX causes common metals and metal alloys such as iron, steel, stainless steel, aluminum, copper, brass, bronze, etc. to chemically behave more like noble metals such as gold and platinum, which are highly resistant to oxidation. CorrosionX also has a dielectric characteristic, so not only is it safe on electronics, CorrosionX shuts down electrolysis between dissimilar metals. Use CorrosionX wherever you want corrosion control without paint or wax coatings. A light spray of CorrosionX on power heads, gensets and engines a couple of times a year will keeping them looking like new – even in saltwater and coastal environments."

 

And that is what is inside of this Penn reel now coating those corroded parts. Corrosion X is now in between that steel AR roller sleeve and the pinion gear. So it should slow or stop the corrosion process from going any further which is my main concern because this reel is going right back into a saltwater environment.

 

I can tell you this from experience here in Florida where corrosion can be pretty bad. When I take a new reel out of the box, knowing it is going into saltwater environment; if I pretreat the internal metals including bearings, that I never have a single bit of corrosion. It is amazing how well this product works at keeping reels working in a corrosive environment- and electronics.

 

And I use this on all my electronics circuit boards and connectors in the boat and spray my outboard motors as well. Best I have ever found.

 

I can see where boeshield has its benefits like external boat parts, but due to the fact corrosion X does not dry out and turn into a waxy coating, that I can use corrosion X for more applications than boeshield. I would not want a product inside a steel bearing that dries out and becomes a solid kind of like old petroleum grease can do. Corrosion X really works well in bearings because of its constant viscosity- even in freezing northern areas bearings will work as well there same as in Florida because the viscosity remains constant.

Boeing developed Boeshield to be a quick swipe fix for airframes, which live in a pretty crappy environment.  

I have brass parts that have been on my salt kayak for 16 years - everything gets Boeshield.  

 

I probably need to read this thread start to finish one of these days.

 

Other than an outside wipe, I've NEVER lubed/cleaned a reel.

 

I'm starting to buy some very high end reels, I need to treat them good.

 

Pretty stupid to buy a Lambo and never change the oil.

 

 

13 minutes ago, HawkeyeSmallie said:

I'm starting to buy some very high end reels, I need to treat them good.

Or take the easy way out - send them to Mike at DVT....he'll treat them right.

5 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Or take the easy way out - send them to Mike at DVT....he'll treat them right.

 

Definitely an option.

 

I think I'd enjoy doing it once I learned how.

 

The time is my biggest issue currently.

 

When there's ice here I'm in the office all day every day.

And of course the OP premise is people who work on their own reels - no one is really marketing for themselves or others, but comparing notes.  There are a few diversions, such as what should you do with a salt-abused reel, vs. when do you throw it away.  

1 minute ago, HawkeyeSmallie said:

I think I'd enjoy doing it once I learned how.

Well, take it slow, document everything and pay attention to the schematics.

 

This is what one of my Tatula 100s looks like broken down for cleaning/re-lubing...from my own maintenance cycle last winter. Most casting reels will be very close to this.

 

take even more photos, as it's coming apart - breadcrumbs to get you back home.  

Holy crap, I do the same thing if I'm disconnecting my computer (lightning strike killed the motherboard a few months ago).  

 

11 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

take even more photos

Dude - pictures from the future...tell me how you did it?

(Most of your pics are dated February of NEXT year.)

@MN Fisher

easy, I didn't reset the date the last time my camera battery died - I'll get it right before the Fall Redfish Rodeo at the end of next month.