Photos are a lifesaver, especially when it comes to the small stuff like springs, shims, and the orientation of other parts.  The most difficult reel to do is the first one, it gets easier and after you begin to notice similarities between models. 

 

This type of thing also helps you understand the quality of a reel in general.  You get to some of the no-name budget stuff, you find pot metal, self tapping screws, questionable design philosophy, and poorly implemented features copied from the bigger players.  With the higher end stuff, you understand the effort put into engineering such a fine product.  Doing this has made me a huge fan of simply constructed, yet high performing reels.  In the grand scheme of things, reels truly are simple instruments.  With some growing ever more complex for the sake of planned obsolescence, I'm highly appreciative of reels like Isuzu who focus on performance, simplicity, and thoughtful engineering in favor of bearing count, max drag capacity, and lightness.  It's a shame that very few artisan reel makers exist anymore.  Most of them do fly and center pin reels, and Isuzu is the only game in town for baitcast and spinning reels.  

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

Well, take it slow, document everything and pay attention to the schematics.

 

This is what one of my Tatula 100s looks like broken down for cleaning/re-lubing...from my own maintenance cycle last winter. Most casting reels will be very close to this.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I can do it.

 

I once took my garage door opener completely apart, replaced the worn out piece and then put the whole thing back together.

 

I did it all by memory. Now that was at least 15 years ago so I don't think by mind is as sharp. So pictures and notes will probably be required. LOL

43 minutes ago, HawkeyeSmallie said:

 

I'm pretty sure I can do it.

 

I once took my garage door opener completely apart, replaced the worn out piece and then put the whole thing back together.

 

I did it all by memory. Now that was at least 15 years ago so I don't think by mind is as sharp. So pictures and notes will probably be required. LOL

I would reiterate what’s been discussed in this very thread and in others with many of heavyweights you see here and that is to ensure you have the proper tools.. 

I did all my Curados over the winter. For sanity reasons I wanted to watch someone tear one down. I found several vid on the subject. 

 

What is funny is listening to some of the youtubers. They all have their "special" method of removing Japanese screws. I have an idea, just buy some bits specifically made for the screws you are trying to remove. 

 

One of the Curado MGL's I worked on had a stripped screw in it. Bought it brand new, at least I thought I did. Maybe one of those guys that likes to break down a reel as soon as he or she buys it, stripped the screw and returned it. Fortunately I was able to back it out with a flat head. I have replaced that screw.  

 

2 hours ago, Bass Junke said:

What is funny is listening to some of the youtubers. They all have their "special" method of removing Japanese screws. I have an idea, just buy some bits specifically made for the screws you are trying to remove. 

There are also some YouTubers that never really clean anything.  I won't name names but some probably have an idea who these guys are.  They open up the reel, flood the bearings with oil, grease the gears, and call it done.  To me, that isn't reel service.  Nothing was cleaned, nothing was checked for wear, just added more lubrication on top of the dirty old stuff.  If anything, it will perform marginally better, much less than its true capability.  The guys doing that need to be mindful because not all greases mix peacefully, some negatively react with each other and can cause them to thicken.  The cleaning process and lubes chosen are how the reel technician brands his work.  We all have lubes we like to use, and we give the feel and performance that we would achieve in our personal stuff.  

You're never a Youtube prisoner - you don't have to listen to them (unless you want to).  

Look for the assembly point you need to watch, and slew there.  

7 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

comparing notes

💯 

7 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

diversions, such as what should you do with a salt-abused reel, vs. when do you throw it away

I dont think that's a diversion at all, that's what makes it the "reel maintenance megathread"

 

I'm loving watching people with tons more experience talk through their thoughts and strategies and why etc.... 

Also @bulldog1935 @redmeansdistortion @FloridaFishinFool @Delaware Valley Tackle

@theotherththeotherwellexperiencedreelmaintainers

 

When I re-engage my spool slowly, on just about all my casters, I hear two clicks. Is this the spring/lever clacking against the buzz saw lookin thing and the thumb bar slapping the reel body?

 

I used to only hear it when I lightly press the thumb bar to keep the clack quiet, because I've seen it spook bass near the bank MANY times. But I now have one or two that it is 2 separate click clacks even when I'm not trying to quiet it down.

 

Did I mess something up? Was this description/question clear?

 

TIA

All baitcasters, including those with a full-time A/R roller bearing, still have a separate A/R ratchet at the bottom of the mainshaft.  Freespool lifts the pinion out of engagement with both the main gear and the spool.  The ratchet engages the trigger that releases the clutch.  

 

Turning the crank/mainshaft, the first click you hear releases the ratchet - the second click engages pinion and main gears.  

 

The lifting pinion, btw, was on Douglas' 1918 patent for 1st model Pflueger Supreme - on that freespool + A/R design (no drag), you turned the crank backwards for the yoke to lift the pinion from both main gear and spool for freespool.  But Pflueger dropped the complicated mechanism when they could copy Marhoff's direct-drive LW (expired patent) in 1928.  The freespool clutch we recognize today originated on 1954 Ambassadeur patent (which no one could copy before 1972).

 

Kinda like Daiwa T-wing, Douglas' LW rider dropped forward on freespool.  On retrieve, the upright rider pushed the line to either side, where the yoke lifted the line and dropped it in the rider groove.  These reels also weren't nickeled brass or even nickel-silver, but were silver-plate.  

Bulldog is already on it.

 

There are basically 3 mechanism that can click. The first is the clutch pawl that contacts with the AR ratchet plate under the gear. That ratchet pawl has a spring that makes it move into place and it might click more if grease is worn away. 

 

Look at Bulldog's photo on the right. Do you see that thick heavy spring attached to the frame and ratchet pawl? That is a pretty stiff spring right there. When it snaps that ratchet pawl into place it can make some noise.

 

The second click could be a combination of 2 things- one is the yoke engaging might make a slight noise, but the thumb bar can also click into place. That one is external and could be louder than others.

12 hours ago, Banned User said:

When I re-engage my spool slowly, on just about all my casters, I hear two clicks. Is this the spring/lever clacking against the buzz saw lookin thing and the thumb bar slapping the reel body?

Keep in mind that the clutches in modern reels are under high tension torsion springs, especially some Daiwa models that use two of them.  The top spring for the clutch cam is usually quite beefy, while the lower spring is much finer and used to actuate the kick lever.  Usually it's the thumb bar and pinion yoke returning to position that are making the noise.  If you crank very slowly, the thumb bar can sometimes return first and the pinion yoke second.  Sometimes they don't go in unison either because there is too much grease on the pinion yoke studs or the grease used is tacky.  A lot of the time, it will work itself out as grease is distributed during operation.  I wouldn't worry too much about spooking fish as modern reels are markedly quieter than the stuff we used way back.  For instance, the M1 Garand of fishing reels, the ABU Cardinal 3/4/6/7, makes a very distinctive clang when the bail turns over, especially with new bail springs.  Once they wear in, the reel can quiet a fair amount.  Pre-1991 Ambassadeurs also have a distinctive ping when the spool is re-engaged.  

On 8/15/2025 at 7:22 AM, FloridaFishinFool said:

One thing to keep in mind and you almost never hear about this, is that the red washer is also an engineered shim of a specific thickness. That red washer is a gear alignment washer that dictates precisely how the main gear fits to the pinion gear. Change the thickness of that washer and your gear alignment changes.

This is the same even in Ambassadeurs.  I've assisted some people who changed out gears on some models, namely the 6.3 gear set for the 2500C and the stainless gear sets for the 4000-6000 reels.  Both sets of gears are hobbed at a tighter tolerance than OEM, so base washer thickness needs to be accounted for.  Many of those people were complaining about noise and cranking inertia, and through my own trial and error I discovered that the OEM leather 3902 washer that a lot of people were running is 0.7mm thick, while the OEM Abu replacement carbon 3902 is 1mm.  The 3902 that Smooth Drag sells is the same thickness as the old leather 3902, so the correct thickness would either need to be made or purchased from an Abu parts supplier for those considering those gear swaps in the future.  If the gears were hobbed at factory tolerances, the washer swap may not have been necessary.  After swapping to the OEM 3902 carbon washer, noise decreased significantly and the reels became smoother as the teeth were meshing correctly. 

Shimming mainshaft/drag stacks is always important on Ambassadeur.  

(Even my 1500 CI-conversion with all-new Avail parts needed an extra 0.2-mm M4 washer above the mainshaft teflon washer)

Too often, you can bottom-out travel on drag nut before you get usable drag value.  

Avail sells 1.0- and 0.5-mm M8 brass washers for this.  

(also note how the old Ambassadeur pinion yoke resembles Douglas' 1918 version)

On 8/27/2025 at 8:12 PM, Banned User said:

Also @bulldog1935 @redmeansdistortion @FloridaFishinFool @Delaware Valley Tackle

@theotherththeotherwellexperiencedreelmaintainers

 

When I re-engage my spool slowly, on just about all my casters, I hear two clicks. Is this the spring/lever clacking against the buzz saw lookin thing and the thumb bar slapping the reel body?

 

I used to only hear it when I lightly press the thumb bar to keep the clack quiet, because I've seen it spook bass near the bank MANY times. But I now have one or two that it is 2 separate click clacks even when I'm not trying to quiet it down.

 

Did I mess something up? Was this description/question clear?

 

TIA

My best guess is that you hear the kick lever setting into a tooth on the ratchet gear and then the clutch springing back to position. At any rate I don’t think you need to worry. 

I would like to bring up something I don't ever see mentioned.

 

I learned a long time ago, so long ago I can't recall who taught it to me, but when reassembling spinning reels, I was taught to pack a small amount of grease into the cavity of the main drive gear just behind the gear teeth. Shimano does this at the factory as well.

 

The grease is about as thick as the gears are tall, and maybe a 1/4" wide amount or less equally distributed all the way around the gear 360 degrees. I just use my finger tip to smooth it out and down to an equal distribution all the way around.

 

Surprisingly I could not find any images of a drive gear with grease packed in behind the gear teeth so this one will have to do.

 

 

On some shimano gears they pack it in the cavity sometimes from the backside of the gear teeth to center axle.

 

The theory is that as the reel is used over a number of years that the centrifugal force of the spinning gear will slowly flow that packed grease feeding it into the gears to keep them lubricated over a longer period of time.

 

If grease is only put on the gear teeth and reel reassembled, how long would that grease last with none to flow in behind it?

 

If the theory is correct it sure does seem like a good idea if it does keep the gears lubricated for a longer time period of use.

 

I was wondering if anyone here does this same thing?

 

I did a little main drive gear grease packing on my son's new/used Penn Battle III 6500LE. It sure does have a pretty gear inside! Much higher quality metal than even some Shimano and Daiwa reels have.

 

 

All done now. Saltwater pre-treated for corrosion and all lubricants 100% full synthetic and ready for the big reds and snook.

 

 

Another maintenance tip on spinning reels is when I lubricate the line guide roller bearings, before screwing it together I make sure the screw is aligned to the hole it goes in on the bail.

 

Quite often the bails are bent usually to the outside, but sometimes the inside, and if they are not aligned correctly it can put side pressure on the two bail arms/holder where they are screwed into the rotor.

 

So before I put that screw into the line guide roller I make sure it is aligned straight first. Sometimes you have to bend the bail slightly one way or the other to align it, but the bail will function better with no side pressure on those two parts- the bail arm and bail holder on other side.

 

One issue with this Penn 6500LE I am not liking too much is how Penn did the drag stack. In Shimano reels the center metal key washer locks into the spool. On this Penn reel they reversed it. Now the key plates float freely and the cross weave carbon fiber drag washers are cut in such a way so as to lock into the spool. I prefer the Shimano way.

 

One day I may have to play around with the Penn and make some custom drag washers for it. Or, make some custom keyed washers and use regular drag washers and reverse the Penn to the Shimano way. I am just concerned for how long I will be able to get these Penn drag washers. Thinking ahead.

 

Penn installed the drag washers dry so I left it that way.

 

I just received my Shimano baitrunner parts in the mail, so onto that one next. Will also do a saltwater corrosion pre-treatment on that one as well. I'm dreading the baitrunner.

On 8/28/2025 at 8:39 AM, redmeansdistortion said:

spooking fish

Maybe I just got spooky bank fish, but I see scattering if I engage without holding the thumbar down and lifting slowly to engage quietly. Suddenly swirls are rippling all along the bank and sometimes bigger swirls that were probably bass.

 

Thanks for all the insight on the double clicks, I'll keep trying to keep it quiet since it seems like it won't impact the reel or anything. Maybe I'll slap a glob of grease to quiet it down internally.

@Banned User

Have the same spooky fish along the shore here.

I make my first few casts 20 feet away from water's edge always hoping for a monster. Usually catch something and by then they all scatter.

Also use a spinning set up and close bail by hand, it's more quiet.

21 hours ago, Banned User said:

Maybe I just got spooky bank fish, but I see scattering if I engage without holding the thumbar down and lifting slowly to engage quietly. Suddenly swirls are rippling all along the bank and sometimes bigger swirls that were probably bass.

 

Thanks for all the insight on the double clicks, I'll keep trying to keep it quiet since it seems like it won't impact the reel or anything. Maybe I'll slap a glob of grease to quiet it down internally.

A lot of the places I fish are heavily trafficked and noisy in general, so the fish don't spook as easily.  When I'm out in the sticks on the trout streams, that's a whole different ballgame and even casting a shadow upon the water will spook the fish.

Stealth is Everything in fishing - borrowing from a fly rod post I made on FFR:  

Stealth is everything in fishing, but it's not in the rod, except how you move the rod and present the line. It's also how you move yourself.
My all-time favorite fish story:
I was sight-fishing this bass in an oxbow on the Pedernales headwaters - she was creeping, almost yawning toward my cats whisker.
The massive yellow belly dashed out and snagged the fly. The bass then fought the yellow belly and sat down at my feet while I was handling her.
I released the sunfish, daubed the fly at my feet and caught the bass - only time I ever had a 5-lb bass wait in line to eat my cats whisker.

 

Stealth is the single most important element in fishing, and every good fish is a stealth success story.
My favorite stealth talk was given by Gary Borger - he began with an academic interpretation of fish intelligence, which gave trout an IQ of 6 (carp scored IQ 12).
His argument was natural selection - curious fish become food.
His thesis - Big fish aren't smart - big fish are cowards.

My lifetime fly-rod redfish and black drum were both sight-fished on these epoxy flies:
the redfish on the mylar spoon, the black drum on the bucktail crab.

Both fish knew I was there, but they can't tell you from a heron in a funny hat. Both also took 5 to 6 presentations to be enticed.
Easy to muff, especially with your heart in your throat.

17 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Stealth is everything in fishing, but it's not in the rod, except how you move the rod and present the line.It's also how you move yourself.

Just like Katie in her canoe...she sneaks up on the little devils.

24 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Stealth is Everything in fishing - borrowing from a fly rod post I made on FFR:  

Stealth is everything in fishing, but it's not in the rod, except how you move the rod and present the line.It's also how you move yourself.
My all-time favorite fish story:
I was sight-fishing this bass in an oxbow on the Pedernales headwaters - she was creeping, almost yawning toward my cats whisker.
The massive yellow belly dashed out and snagged the fly. The bass then fought the yellow belly and sat down at my feet while I was handling her.
I released the sunfish, daubed the fly at my feet and caught the bass - only time I ever had a 5-lb bass wait in line to eat my cats whisker.

 

Stealth is the single most important element in fishing, and every good fish is a stealth success story.
My favorite stealth talk was given by Gary Borger - he began with an academic interpretation of fish intelligence, which gave trout an IQ of 6 (carp scored IQ 12).
His argument was natural selection - curious fish become food.
His thesis - Big fish aren't smart - big fish are cowards.

My lifetime fly-rod redfish and black drum were both sight-fished on these epoxy flies:
the redfish on the mylar spoon, the black drum on the bucktail crab.

Both fish knew I was there, but they can't tell you from a heron in a funny hat. Both also took 5 to 6 presentations to be enticed.
Easy to muff, especially with your heart in your throat.

When I teach people to fish for trout, stealth is the main thing I emphasize.  You'd be surprised the amount of seasoned trout fishermen that will walk in the water and wonder why they aren't catching anything.  I'm not standing in the water unless absolutely necessary, and it's usually to retrieve a snagged lure or to get to a clear spot to cast.  Another big one I like to discuss is where to cast.  A lot of guys will pick the closest target out of habit.  On the river, you start from afar and work your way in.  If you're casting to the closest target first, those fish will spook, flee upstream, and those further out will also run because the others are signifying danger to the others.  

Reading the water is harder to teach, and I've had an inane skill since 12 y-o.  

I have many good friends - long-term on the water - who wave a fly rod and never catch a fish - they enjoy the company and the nature, and that works, too - observing most everything except what matters for catching fish.  

I've never had a problem in the water.  

Normally, I wouldn't recommend taking a dog, but I had an elkhound who was stealthy beyond words - thought it was important when the fly line was piling up on his head, and wanted to smell the fish before I released it.  He read my stealth an knew what to do, never moving until I moved.  North dogs have a natural trepidation toward the water (= falling through the ice), so his effort was a form of trust.  

On 8/27/2025 at 11:53 AM, MN Fisher said:

Dude - pictures from the future...tell me how you did it?

(Most of your pics are dated February of NEXT year.)

 

On 8/27/2025 at 11:56 AM, bulldog1935 said:

@MN Fisher

easy, I didn't reset the date the last time my camera battery died - I'll get it right before the Fall Redfish Rodeo at the end of next month.  

I charged my camera battery for next week, and swapped it in my Pelcan box for the back-up battery, which is charging now.  

When I did this, I set the date and time correctly.  

Hope I made you proud.  😁

The black Pelican is cigars.  

Cracked open my SLX MGL that I grabbed around 2019/2020. I used it for a couple years, then left it outside from about Sept-Dec exposed to the elements. After I finally brought it in it was only used a few times over the next couple years.

 

Here's how it looked

 

 

Before I did this i took it for a spin to see how it felt 

 

I'll post separately on that experience later

 

It actually looked much better than you would think, really looked fine albeit dry. I soaked a few parts in simple green, hit them with a tooth brush, and got this

Re-greased, reassembled, and along the way I swapped out the bearings for some full ceramics that I grabbed quite a while ago - before I knew about Si3n4 

That's the old bearings next to one of the new bearings

 

I've never messed with full ceramic before..

 Very interesting experience 

 

When i spun them on the end of my paintbrush they behaved way more differently than I expected. 

 

With a light flick they spun for a bit, 10-15 seconds. But if i tried to flick a fast spin into them they started up, got real loud, then slowed way down and stopped in about 5 seconds

I guess the best way to use full ceramic is a light smooth cast, as chucking hard as i can would overload them and actually slow them down. Maybe I'm wrong... idk. 

 

I plan to take it out tomorrow if I get the chance and see how it feels

What should I do with my AR bearing and the sleeve and whatever else you call that whole kit and kaboodle inthat hole? There's definitely a need for a cleaning of some sort in there

 

I'm gonna try a full tear down (or at least a few more parts like worm gear/pawl and whatever those plastic gears are) eventually, at least some point this hard water season