Of course bass and stream trout are market niches in Japan, stock spools are for mono + centrifugal.  Try-Angle spools with mag brake are made for all Isuzu sizes - to me, they're simply braid spools.  

Small-frame BC420 (Ambassadeur 1500 size)

Medium-frame BC620 (Ambassadeur 4500 size)

Medium frame BC720 (Ambassadeur 5500 size)

You won't get the joy of casting one of these until the first cast.  

While you can tune an Ambassadeur close with aftermarket parts, it's never quite Isuzu.  

16 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Of course bass and stream trout are market niches in Japan, stock spools are for mono + centrifugal.  Try-Angle spools with mag brake are made for all Isuzu sizes - to me, they're simply braid spools.  

Small-frame BC420 (Ambassadeur 1500 size)

Medium-frame BC620 (Ambassadeur 4500 size)

Medium frame BC720 (Ambassadeur 5500 size)

You won't get the joy of casting one of these until the first cast.  

While you can tune an Ambassadeur close with aftermarket parts, it's never quite Isuzu.  

Nice, so Isuzu took the ABU design and engineered a much better reel, are those reels all direct drive? My father had direct drive reels on steel casting rods.. even as a kid I remember thinking, there has to be something better 😂🤣😂 I would sneak cast one and think something was wrong or I broke it! Those reels were one thing but steel rods, goodness gracious to top it off I think they had like 4 guides on it. 

Isuzu Kogyo opened as a family run machine shop in 1955.  At the same time, they took apart their first Ambassadeur.  In 1972, when Ambassadeur patents expired, they began selling their own bench reel, first as Smith Plugger (this is '21 model - you could buy this on Amazon for a few months in '21).

If you look inside both small-frame and medium-frame Isuzu, they all look like '76 Ambassadeur medium-frame - while a functional clone, parts, dimensions, spool and foot positions in the frame, are all their own.  

No, direct-drive Isuzu reels are a specific sideline - they introduce a limted run every 5 years or so, and like all model batches, they all sell out.  Previous direct-drive models were sold as Tabby, and Frog Products Revolver.  

Last year, Try-Angle, who has made aftermarket parts for Isuzu reels for a dozen years, bought Isuzu business from the family.  

You won't find many used reels out there - they tend to be cherished - here's two gorgeous examples, a Bright River F-series, and Megabass Pagani.  

 

There's a major collector's market for unused boxed reels.  

My link evaporated - someone bought the reel - but a great example of Frog Products Toy Machine Superlative IAR, which like Pagani, is Isuzu BC520X Chimera.  

If you had bought this reel new, it was 1/3 of the current asking price.  

Not all similar reels in Japan are made by Isuzu - Ebisu and Doryu also make their variants, which cover most of the Frog Products models, along with Dowluck reels.  When they were still in business, Zeal offered a really pretty monobloc.  

https://noppin.com/yahoos/detail/o153169030

32 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Isuzu Kogyo opened as a family run machine shop in 1955.  At the same time, they took apart their first Ambassader.  In 1972, when Ambassadeur patents expired, they began selling their own bench reel, first as Smith Plugger (this is '21 model)

If you look inside both small-frame and medium-frame Isuzu, they all look like '76 Ambassadeur medium-frame - while a functional clone, parts, dimensions, spool and foot positions in the frame, are all their own.  

No, direct-drive Isuzu reels are a specific sideline - they introduce a limted run every 5 years or so, and like all model batches, they all sell out.  Previous direct-drive models were sold as Tabby, and Frog Products Revolver.  

Last year, Try-Angle, who has made aftermarket parts for Isuzu reels for a dozen years, bought Isuzu business from the family.  

You won't find many used reels out there - they tend to be cherished - here's two gorgeous examples, a Bright River F-series, and Megabass Pagani.  

 

There's a major collector's market for unused boxed reels.  

Here's a great example of Frog Products Toy Machine Superlative IAR.  

https://noppin.com/yahoos/detail/h1193050168

If you had bought this reel new, it was less than 1/3 of the current asking price.  

Not all similar reels in Japan are made by Isuzu - Ebisu and Doryu also make their variants, which cover most of the Frog Products models, along with Dowluck reels.  When they were still in business, Zeal offered a really pretty monobloc.  

https://noppin.com/yahoos/detail/o153169030

They're probably the only new production reel that are an investment to some degree.  Even though the DD31x has been out just a few months, asking prices for them are already north of $600 used and $700 NIB, more if you want gold.  I paid a paltry $475 for mine.  The prices go up as time goes on.  No other reels jump in price like that, and have to be on the market for years before prices begin to inch up past MSRP.  I've already had offers to buy mine from people on Facebook and Reddit.  Nope, it's staying with me.

So what kind of rods are you guys using for BFS?

 

Obviously the tip needs to be very flexible to cast out small lures, but do some rods have some backbone to bring in a decent bass?

 

Or is the whole rod UL?

@HawkeyeSmallie - stream trout rods are UL, 5-1/2' and shorter, but still progressive taper, casting 1 to 7 g.  

My river kayak/bass rods are also happiest around this length, but 1-power (weightless senko), 2-power (finesse spinners), and 3-power (cranks).  

The 5-power frogger/swimbait in the middle, wouldn't call that finesse. 

Inshore kayak rods begin about 6-1/2' for mud-marsh sight fishing.  

over 7' for flats drifting

and nominal 8' to 9' for shore fishing (tide passes and surf) - long progressive rods

2 to 20 g

3 to 14 g

3 to 30 g

8 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@HawkeyeSmallie - stream trout rods are UL, 5-1/2' and shorter, but still progressive taper.  

My river kayak/bass rods are also happiest around this length, but 1- (weightless senko), 2- (finesse spinners), and 3-power (cranks).  

Inshore kayak rods begin about 6-1/2' for mud-marsh sight fishing.  

 

 

Thanks.

 

If and when I ever buy something, I'm thinking it will mostly be small treble hook lures for bass and panfish.

 

Little poppers/cranks, etc.

1 hour ago, HawkeyeSmallie said:

So what kind of rods are you guys using for BFS?

 

Obviously the tip needs to be very flexible to cast out small lures, but do some rods have some backbone to bring in a decent bass?

 

Or is the whole rod UL?

The bass rods are pretty stout in the backbone and shut off after the 1st guide.  The stream/trout rods are very noodly but that's what you want for trout.

I agree.. BFS for me has made finesse fishing so fun.  I've got 3 Curado BFS that are all on Phenix Feather rods (2 Light and 1 Medium Light)  They get a lot of use.  

 

I also just picked up, this year, a Calcutta Shallow Edition that I paired up with an Expride 7'2 ML rod.  Not BFS but allows me to throw more finesse presentations. It might be my favorite combo out of all of them.  Very versatile!  I like it so much, I'd love to get another.  

 

Between the Calcutta SE & Curado BFS reels I've eliminated all my need for a spinning combo.

 

 

5 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

The bass rods are pretty stout in the backbone and shut off after the 1st guide.  The stream/trout rods are very noodly but that's what you want for trout.

Trout rods can be noodly, or not.  The fastest rod I own is a trout rod, not a bass rod. It's the Major Craft Finetail 5' L, it's meant for fishing fast water.  It needs to be stout in order to present lures correctly in that environment.  Too much bend and you're going to miss bites and struggle to work your bait through the current.  It isn't the rod you'd choose for a low grade stream, but something where the water is really moving.

 

Another is my Smith Troutin'Spin 74M, it's a moderate fast but it's a big fish rod meant for sea run cherry salmon, steelhead, and Dolly Varden trout.  I use mine for steelhead, coho, and lake run brown trout.  When I was at my meeting with Michigan Steelheaders back in June, Roger Hinchcliff, VP of Lamiglas was there.  He's also their lead blank designer for salmon and steelhead rods.  He spent a very long time with that rod analyzing it and was very impressed with the action, weight, and build quality.  I'm pretty sure he walked away with ideas that will be incorporated into future Lamiglas products.  

 

The idea of a trout rod is to keep the fish pinned due to their propensity to throw the hook.  Slack line typically means a lost fish, especially when running barbless hooks.  If you look at most US market trout lures, everything typically comes with a treble hook which is notoriously hard on the fish, but also helps keep them hooked.

 

In the end, bass rods are meant for bass and trout rods for trout.  Most BFS (bass) rods are designed with a parabolic taper; less flex in the tip, a flexible mid, and a stout butt.  This is what gives them the perceived fast action.  The problem with a bass rod when trout fishing, especially big fish, is that the tip will break up and become ineffective the closer the fish is too you.  It will literally flatten out because there is no more bend left.  Now trout rods are more progressive taper with a smooth bend from tip to butt.  It isn't unusual for a trout rod to bend all the way into the handle.  This is how they pin fish.  When the heat is put on them, they're much better at keeping tension on the line.

On 7/17/2025 at 6:32 PM, new2BC4bass said:

Would you consider this reel better than a Daiwa with an aftermarket BFS spool? 

This a tad more complicated because it depends on your goals. I'll assume that your Daiwas are 34mm spools. The ARK's is 28mm. Tall spools and aerodynamic soft baits with lead heads or hard baits with weight transfer systems above 4 grams can be launched, but below that weight and with less aerodynamic plastics the smaller diameter spool is much easier to deal with. At 1/8oz and under, thumbing before splash-down isn't really an option as there isn't enough total weight between the spool, bait, and inertia. You'll need to really modify your casting stroke allowing the bait to fly to a target and only stop it before it lands. There's a learning curve with lighter baits in the true BFS range, and here the smaller diameter spool has advantages.

 

However, if you're never going to go that low and want to play in the borderline BFS range, you may be OK with what you have. That said, random aftermarket spools are no guarantee and might need to be tweaked to the user's strength or weaknesses. It could be a rabbit hole depending on "you", or you might be OK off the jump. No way to know for sure until you try.

 

The ARK is nice as it uses a fixed inductor which allows for three adjustments into the magnetic gap via stepped dogs. The passive/active portion of magnet assembly really doesn't do much. Nothing as radical as what Mag Z or SV does. It's essentially equivalent to a Daiwa spool with a fixed inductor/ linear mag system, which works quite well with super light baits.

 

I'd say try what you have and see how it goes. If they fit your needs, stick with it. If they don't, at $149 you have nothing to lose. And believe me, this isn't a cheap reel at all with typical cheap real compromises. It just happens to be a bargain that will compete with anything out there in its ideal bait-weight wheelhouse performance/wise, IMO.

PhishLI:  I've had good luck with #5 Shad Raps (3/16 oz.) on 3 different combos.  None of the reels were BFS.  Not sure if I will be going below 1/8 oz.   Had thought to use a BC reel for panfish, but think I'd rather break out a flyrod.    Bought a few for trout and panfish (while still living in PA) just before taking my wife out of the nursing home.  None used yet.  

Steez with AMO or Roro 34-mm spool will cast this 2 g past 130'

 

 

Contributions to the inertia include spool diameter (28-mm is lower inertia than 34 mm), loaded spool mass, rotating mass of bearing, bearing ball diameter.  

But the 34-mm spool doesn't have to spin as fast to get the same line speed and distance, and when you get loaded spool mass down to 5 g, 28-mm spool has no inertia advantage any more.  Borderline -- ---

I have synchro reels that will do this, and they have the added drag of LW slaved off the spool.  

22 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Had thought to use a BC reel for panfish, but think I'd rather break out a flyrod.

Not to change the subject, but a 3wt tied up for a spinning reel is probably the best panfish rod you could have.  One of my friends has an 8' 3wt with a Michigan handle and casts tiny jigs for bedding bluegills with 2lb Ultragreen.

13 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Steez with AMO or Roro 34-mm spool will cast this 2 g past 130'

I wouldn't argue that your picture of very sleek bait with a lead head will fly on your rig in your hand. I read enough of your posts to understand how you fish and why you fish the way you do. I agree that taller spools always have a specific advantage where distance casting is concerned.

 

That said, a BFS bass bait like a Zman TRD BugZ 2.75" or a 2.5" TRD CrawZ on a 1/16 head and fine wire hook clocks in at about 3.5 grams which is the upper limit of what purist consider true BFS. Beaver baits like the BugZ, and craw baits like the Crawz are air catchers. The polar opposite of what you've shown. Lower the head weight and things only get worse. IMO, this is where smaller diameter spools have an advantage regarding consistency for general casting of typical less than aerodynamic bass baits but not bombing baits for distance. Your experience might be different.

19 hours ago, HawkeyeSmallie said:

Thanks.

 

If and when I ever buy something, I'm thinking it will mostly be small treble hook lures for bass and panfish.

 

Little poppers/cranks, etc.

One more rod to show you that perfectly fits a reservoir kayak niche.  This is the one place where I'd be bottom-bouncing neds on deeper shelves.  There's always a pre-dawn topwater window, and the spooky bass quickly move deep.  400-acre no-motors reservoir, and the kayak I like to take here is too unstable to turn around, so it's a one-rod boat.  (happened to take a spinning rod this day)

Unfortunately, Valleyhill offered this rod spec in only two rod series, and haven't duplicated it since both sold out.  

The wide-range works extremely well for 1/15-oz neds to 1/2-oz cranks and topwaters, and makes a very versatile one rod.  I have just three shorter rods that will cast light distance with my shore rods, and this is one of them.  (Also Daiwa Black Label ML).  

The other is Smith 66SPX, offset grip for mid-frame round reels.  Japanese rods tend to cast and fish well below their rated low end.  

Japanese call a para-taper rod "sticky" (stick-like) - they call a progressive tip "berry" (cherries on the end of a branch), which they like for working topwaters, and it also makes the rod double up for all-around BFS.  

______________

Fly rods?  They're not just for panfish.  

When we took inventory on FFR, I came up with 120 species on fly rod (included suspended snapper at an offshore platform).  At least part of the reason I took to BFS, they make using a fly rod obstinate for all except moving water.