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Big Matty L

can't get the darn handle off

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hey guys...

I got a B series johnny morris reel and I'm tring to change the handle for something a little bigger that i bought, but I cant get the darn handle off...

any advice for disassembelling these things?

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What's a B series?

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PM Cart 7 he will lead you through it You have to back crank the handle and do something with the star drag. Let him help you he definitely knows how to do this

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You have to tighten the drag all the way down, then push the drag star in towards the reel, then you can unscrew the handle.

Look at the last photo on the first page of the Patriarch review.

http://tackletour.com/reviewpfluegerpatriarch.html

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You have to tighten the drag all the way down, then push the drag star in towards the reel, then you can unscrew the handle.

Look at the last photo on the first page of the Patriarch review.

http://tackletour.com/reviewpfluegerpatriarch.html

  I realise this is probably how it has to be done. I've read this same thing in a couple of other threads. This just sounds like a really bad design? With all the fuss about backing off drags when not in use, "locking down" the drag to remove the handle just sounds like a future drag problem waiting to happen.

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You have to tighten the drag all the way down, then push the drag star in towards the reel, then you can unscrew the handle.

Look at the last photo on the first page of the Patriarch review.

http://tackletour.com/reviewpfluegerpatriarch.html

I realise this is probably how it has to be done. I've read this same thing in a couple of other threads. This just sounds like a really bad design? With all the fuss about backing off drags when not in use, "locking down" the drag to remove the handle just sounds like a future drag problem waiting to happen.

You're only doing this long enough to remove the handle and do what you have to do with the reel.  Pflueger has done this on their reels for a number of years now.  It eliminates the need for a handle nut and nut cap and gives the handle a smoother appearance.

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I'm with fish-fightin, this is a POOR design and I just returned my brand new Rick Clunn reel partly because of that to exchange it for an Extreme which does not have to be done this way.  I think rather than causing a drag problem though, it's far more likely that the threads in the aluminum handle will eventually strip from the strain of removing and retightening again over and over.  Might last a while, even a long time maybe, but it's just a poor design all for a smoother looking handle.  I much prefer the nut and nut cap design.  When I got my RC baitcaster I removed the handle just to see how hard it would be to do and on the very first removal I was already seeing metal shavings and what appeared to be one thread broken from somewhere, there was a small sliver of metal that came out.  It was on there so tight it couldn't be removed without way excessive pressure, and then it couldn't be tightened up like it had been from the factory after reinstalling it again.  I know I've said this already but it's a really really bad design.  Otherwise Pflueger makes top notch baitcasters though.  

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Most people don't incesently take them on and put them back, I don't see how such frequent breakdown and lube is even helpful at all.

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I don't normally do it until I feel that the reel needs it, and by feel I actually mean feeling the gears meshing together as I crank it, sort of a grind but not severe. One time a year at the beginning of the season usually does me until fall.  Depends on how much I use the reel between March and October.  

With that RC reel I had, I was worried that it would fish smooth for a year and then need a lube and removing the handle would be a problem, or a hassle, or something......and I wanted to make sure it would not be a problem while I still had an option to return it, not a year later when it was too late.

But with the Extreme I got to replace it, it's not even that much of an issue cause I can lubricate the gears without even taking the reel down, it has a lube port on the bottom of the gear box (one phillips screw and it's open), and I can get to the bearings on the spool by simply removing the sideplate, no tools required. That works for a temporary fix. Very convenient, but still not as good as a complete breakdown and thorough cleaning.

Only bearings I can't reach without removing the handle and breaking out the tools are the ones on the main gear shaft, one ball bearing and one clutch bearing. For those two I have to break it down and that means removing the handle. Fortunately, it's such an awesome design that that is an easy job. They had the good sense to use the nut and nut cap. :D

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I fish a little over 100 days a year, no small feat in the North East, working a full time job.

 I lube my Trions once or twice during the season, very little when needed. I send them to get done by a pro everyother year, and thats probablly more than needed.

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Poor design? In what way?

I have several reels with this type handle, and after the initial confusion, ( just how am I supposed to get the dad-blamed handle off? ), I think this is an improvement.

No cap and screw to get lost. Much less chance of cross threading than the old arrangement. And, what looks to me to be a stronger handle to gear shaft connection.

I don't see how you could strip the threads when removing the handle. You may be able to over-tighten the handle and strip the threads, but I doubt it. You would have to lock down the spool somehow, and put a "cheater" on the handle to apply enough force to strip the threads. And, chances are you'd damaged the gears and/or the spool before you did any damage to the handle's threads.

If nothing else, the drag slipping would prevent such a thing. Even to prove a point, I'm not going to try it.

On a different note, I've never seen the point of a maintenance port on a reel. What are you going to do with it? Add new lube to all the old lube and dirt? Why would you want to?

A lube port may make sense on a salt water reel. I wouldn't know about that. Ain't much salt water fishin done here in the middle of Illinois.

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I just think it's a poor design because the threads are cut directly into aluminum, which is a soft metal for such a thing. That's where the risk of stripping comes from.  The very first time I removed it, before I put it back on I was looking at it and could already see metal shavings inside the hole.  

What little time I had the Rick Clunn reel and removed the handle I could see that putting it back on it would be very easy to cross thread it. By the way I put it on I wouldn't really know it was crossed until it began to bind while turning it cause I would have too much leverage twisting it on by holding the paddles to do so. Crossing a nut on there I would feel it bind as I was finger tightening it, long before it did any damage. Also the nut is not aluminum like the handle is, so it just would hold up better.

And while putting the handle back on the drag never slipped at all, it was cranked down too tightly as per instructions of the reel (it said to tigthen it up as much as possible, which I did). The spool did give though, it was allowed to turn because I was unable to hold it still enough to get the handle back on as tightly as it was from the factory.

So to summarize, to me it was a bad design due to having to apply so much pressure to first remove it, which I felt could damage the clutch bearing or the frame it was housed in, being that the sideplate was made of graphite and all. Also cranking the drag down super tight like that I felt it could compress the washers together enough they might not slip later as they were designed to. And then being unable to put it back on tight enough to not come loose again on an accidental bump, plus the risk of a crossthread in soft aluminum. It was just not thought out well enough.

Oh, and I really don't want to sound condescending cause I don't know you personally and would like to stay on good terms with everyone here :D (I'm just enjoying the great handle debate is all)......but if you think about it, I only have the nut and cap off when I'm removing everything else in order to clean and relube my reels. How can I lose those things when I take them apart in a very orderly fashion so I know what order it all goes back together in?? I have just as much chance of losing any other small part while cleaning it as I do those.

But I do agree with you on the maintenance port. It's better to do a complete breakdown and clean. Sometimes I feel the gears need a shot of lube to smooth them back out a bit as they begin to feel some roughness setting in, just to get me through another fishing trip before I go ahead and tear it all down to thoroughly go through it. Having the maintenance port allows me to do that on mine. I know it's lazy on my part, but it does work. Just so long as I don't just continue to use that as my ONLY means of lubing it.

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Hey Rooster, no condescension taken. We can agree to disagree. If we all thought alike, we'd probably still be living in caves and fishing with spears.

I had a look at one of mine, and the threaded part of the handle is steel, set in the aluminum handle. I haven't looked at the otheres yet, but I will. You've made me curious.

If the one you had showed shavings, and was very hard to twist off, I'd be willing to bet it was cross threaded during production, and the assembler twisted it back out then back on, and you were absolutely right to take it back. That is a failure that had found a place to happen. The bad threads would have eventually done just as you suggetsed; damaged the IAR or cracked the housing.

I've found on my reels with that type handle that it doesn't have to be really tight, just snug. I tighten the drag down to about it's normal tension, put my thumb on the spool, and tighten the handle until the drag slips. That is tight enough, and will not damage anything.

Also, I don't think you can hurt the drag springs. Before I "knew better", I used to leave mine tightened all year. I've never had a pair flatten out. I'm sure it's happened to somebody, or we wouldn't be hearing about it. I'd hazard a guess that it happened to one of those guys who tighten their drags with pliers, and leave them like that for years.

Let the great handle debate continue.

Cheers,

GK

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