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paul.

"financial transparency"

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i will be the first to admit that i don't know much about big business. so as i have been keeping up with the nfl vs. nflpa saga, i have noticed that the major sticking point seems to be the nfl owners' unwillingness to show the players exactly how much money is coming in. especially at a time when they are asking the players to give up some of their share. in simple terms, it seems the owners are asking the players to take a pay cut but refuse to show them why it's financially necessary.

so my question is this for those who know something about business and business law. how realistic is it for the players to expect the nfl to be "financially transparent"? do they actually have a legal right to the nfl's books? my guess would be no. and my guess would also be that the nfl will continue to at least partially withhold financial data from the players. sure, they might show them some financial information, but i doubt the players will ever get the "real" facts and figures. what do you think? if you were to ask the ceo of your company to show you the books and explain to you exactly how much money the company makes, what do you think they'd say?

of course the flip side of this is that if i was making millions to do something that i loved (fishing for an example we can all relate to) and they asked me to give up several thousands "for the good of the business", i don't guess i'd care too much. i'd probably do it and not ask too many questions, knowing that i was still fortunate and blessed beyond belief. but that's just me.

what a mess this has turned into. >:(

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The players have no more right, and no more business to know what the owners make than any other employee working for any other business.

If they are not satisfied with what they make, then they can find something more to their liking, period.

For those who own businesses of any size, do you, or would you open your books and tax returns to any employee(s)?

It's none of their business, and an unreasonable demand regardless of any governmental edict.

For all the die hard fans, remember this.  Whatever the owners pay the players in wages and bennies ultimately comes out of your pockets.

If the fans boycotted events by not buying tickets, and not watching them on tv, ticket prices would come down.

One needs to look no further than NASCAR.  Until five or six years ago, they thought they had the world by the short hairs.  The sky was the limit.

They kept raising ticket prices, reduced the size and types of coolers fans could bring into the tracks.  Then the fans started getting fed up with being fleeced.  Combine that with the economy going south, and suddenly tracks that had waiting lists for tickets, like Bristol, weren't filling.

To make matters worse, tv ratings went down, and more seats were empty or available at the premier events like the Daytona 500 and the Bristol races.

At the height of their arrogance, NASCAR wouldn't allow networks, such as ESPN, who brought them to the dance, admission to cover the events.

Oooops.  It wasn't long before NASCAR was eating humble pie, and doing some extraordinary things.

The most telling was that Daytona Speedway dismantled a large section of the backstretch grandstands to reduce the number of empty seats that would be seen on television coverage.  Perception is often more important than reality.

This year, Daytona allowed fans to bring in coolers large enough to hold 24 cans of beer, soda, or whatever, vs the coolers that could only hold six cans and very little ice.  They found that forcing fans to buy their overpriced refreshments backfired.

As long as fans continue to support the NFL regardless, they will keep socking it to you.  As for me, they can take the league and shove it.

The last players' strike and substitute season turned me off.  Never have looked back and don't miss it in the least.

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My business is non of your d**n business !

Any privately held company should not have to disclose income/ expenses/ profits except where wrongdoings are suspected and then to government prosecutors and or the IRS.  Green Bay may be a different story as I believe the city owns the team, in that case there should be full disclosure.

Some revenues are easily obtained following the paper trail.  T.V. and radio income generated from public companies like CBS,ABC, NBC are public record, Fox may be a private company and in my opinion may not have to disclose, not sure on this one.

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In the last contract agreed to between these parties, the owners stated that would guarantee to pay a certain percentage of revenues to the players and their union.  I would find it hard to believe that the groups lawyers wouldn't have had some kind of language that spelled out how to prove that this guarantee was met.  Most likely with some sort is disclosure from the owner's financial statements.

Regardless though, the bottom line is this:

Billionaires are fighting with Millionaires over how to carve up the money taken from people who earn less in a year than any of these people earn in a day.

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I agree with most of what was said already. I have a problem with team owners demanding public money to fund new stadiums under the threat of taking the team elsewhere. The cities usually cave in, yet when the place is built you can't afford to take a family to the event.

The fans of all major sports have been treated like dirt for decades, but they keep asking for it and the owners gladly shove it in further and further....

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I remember a small factory (forgot the name) it was a closely held business with around 100 or so employees. The factory produces hardware for the auto industry. I believe it was a monthly basis or more, the owner would talk to the employees about the company's book. He believed if the employees knew the reality of the company, they would work to make company better or continue to work towards sustainability. It obviously worked for him.

Many public companies employees knows what their top executives makes or rough estimate that usually not far off and hell they can view their company's financial statement, but it's a little more broad than the actual ledger. At least they know the revenue, profit, and few other stuff. Private held business? It's up to the owners both legally and in my opinion. If owners are willing disclose a few numbers, the players must agreed to sign a contract stating they will not publicly disclosed any numbers the owners share with them. I mean, some NFL owners and players salary are already reported publicly, what harm will it do to disclosed a couple numbers privately among players? If I'm not mistaken, Forbes has a list of revenues and operating income for each team and few owners salary are somewhere on there.. I don't know how correct those numbers are, but whatever.

Maybe the NFL should copy the Wisconsin's playbook in regard to collective bargain. LOL. I could care less if there are no NFL season next year, but the whole situation is kind of funny.

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I remember a small factory (forgot the name) it was a closely held business with around 100 or so employees. The factory produces hardware for the auto industry. I believe it was a monthly basis or more, the owner would talk to the employees about the company's book. He believed if the employees knew the reality of the company, they would work to make company better or continue to work towards sustainability. It obviously worked for him.

Many public companies employees knows what their top executives makes or rough estimate that usually not far off and hell they can view their company's financial statement, but it's a little more broad than the actual ledger. At least they know the revenue, profit, and few other stuff. Private held business? It's up to the owners both legally and in my opinion. If owners are willing disclose a few numbers, the players must agreed to sign a contract stating they will not publicly disclosed any numbers the owners share with them. I mean, some NFL owners and players salary are already reported publicly, what harm will it do to disclosed a couple numbers privately among players? If I'm not mistaken, Forbes has a list of revenues and operating income for each team and few owners salary are somewhere on there.. I don't know how correct those numbers are, but whatever.

Maybe the NFL should copy the Wisconsin's playbook in regard to collective bargain. LOL. I could care less if there are no NFL season next year, but the whole situation is kind of funny.

The assistance from the taxpayers, that the owners demand, was another reason I dislike the stick and ball sports.  If it isn't worth their investment, it certainly isn't worth yours and mine in the form of tax dollars.

Take your dammm ball and bat and go somewhere else to leech off the public.

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I believe if the owners demand taxpayers' money, whichever jurisdiction they reside in, there should be a vote among taxpayers in which the team reside in. If they leave, then well the people have spoken. lol. It only seems fair. I'm walking a political line here, so I'm go help the old man work on the boat.

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The thing that really sucks about all of this is that we the fans are the ones with the most to lose. The owners keep on being rich, the smart players are set for life, and we have to do yard work or go shopping with the wife instead of watching the Pats win this years super bowl.

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The thing that really sucks about all of this is that we the fans are the ones with the most to lose. The owners keep on being rich, the smart players are set for life, and we have to do yard work or go shopping with the wife instead of watching the Pats win this years super bowl.

Fishing, backpacking, and college football will keep ya sane.  :D

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Let's review: Everyone at home watching the game and the lake pretty much to yourself during the fall bite...."Winning"

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I remember a small factory (forgot the name) it was a closely held business with around 100 or so employees. The factory produces hardware for the auto industry. I believe it was a monthly basis or more, the owner would talk to the employees about the company's book. He believed if the employees knew the reality of the company, they would work to make company better or continue to work towards sustainability. It obviously worked for him.

Many public companies employees knows what their top executives makes or rough estimate that usually not far off and hell they can view their company's financial statement, but it's a little more broad than the actual ledger. At least they know the revenue, profit, and few other stuff. Private held business? It's up to the owners both legally and in my opinion. If owners are willing disclose a few numbers, the players must agreed to sign a contract stating they will not publicly disclosed any numbers the owners share with them. I mean, some NFL owners and players salary are already reported publicly, what harm will it do to disclosed a couple numbers privately among players? If I'm not mistaken, Forbes has a list of revenues and operating income for each team and few owners salary are somewhere on there.. I don't know how correct those numbers are, but whatever.

Maybe the NFL should copy the Wisconsin's playbook in regard to collective bargain. LOL. I could care less if there are no NFL season next year, but the whole situation is kind of funny.

I don't know how you feel about unions,but this is going to hurt us as far as a country goes on what happened in Wisconsin.If the rest of America does this the common working man will be in jeopardy.

As far as football thing,it's greed on both parts....Wouldn't surprise me if it's more on the owners part than the player's part though.

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I remember a small factory (forgot the name) it was a closely held business with around 100 or so employees. The factory produces hardware for the auto industry. I believe it was a monthly basis or more, the owner would talk to the employees about the company's book. He believed if the employees knew the reality of the company, they would work to make company better or continue to work towards sustainability. It obviously worked for him.

Many public companies employees knows what their top executives makes or rough estimate that usually not far off and hell they can view their company's financial statement, but it's a little more broad than the actual ledger. At least they know the revenue, profit, and few other stuff. Private held business? It's up to the owners both legally and in my opinion. If owners are willing disclose a few numbers, the players must agreed to sign a contract stating they will not publicly disclosed any numbers the owners share with them. I mean, some NFL owners and players salary are already reported publicly, what harm will it do to disclosed a couple numbers privately among players? If I'm not mistaken, Forbes has a list of revenues and operating income for each team and few owners salary are somewhere on there.. I don't know how correct those numbers are, but whatever.

Maybe the NFL should copy the Wisconsin's playbook in regard to collective bargain. LOL. I could care less if there are no NFL season next year, but the whole situation is kind of funny.

I don't know how you feel about unions,but this is going to hurt us as far as a country goes on what happened in Wisconsin.If the rest of America does this the common working man will be in jeopardy.

As far as football thing,it's greed on both parts....Wouldn't surprise me if it's more on the owners part than the player's part though.

Oooops, getting close to starting something political.  But I'll add one thing.  My mother worked in a sweatshop in Fall River, Mass.  She was a member of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union.

This is where it gets interesting and totally different from what unions advocate today.  All the employees from those who cut the materials according to patterns, and those who stitched them together got paid by piece work.

The more you produced, the more you got paid.  There was no guaranteed hourly wage.  So, if an employee turned out twice as much work of the person next to them, they got twice the pay.   

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I remember a small factory (forgot the name) it was a closely held business with around 100 or so employees. The factory produces hardware for the auto industry. I believe it was a monthly basis or more, the owner would talk to the employees about the company's book. He believed if the employees knew the reality of the company, they would work to make company better or continue to work towards sustainability. It obviously worked for him.

Many public companies employees knows what their top executives makes or rough estimate that usually not far off and hell they can view their company's financial statement, but it's a little more broad than the actual ledger. At least they know the revenue, profit, and few other stuff. Private held business? It's up to the owners both legally and in my opinion. If owners are willing disclose a few numbers, the players must agreed to sign a contract stating they will not publicly disclosed any numbers the owners share with them. I mean, some NFL owners and players salary are already reported publicly, what harm will it do to disclosed a couple numbers privately among players? If I'm not mistaken, Forbes has a list of revenues and operating income for each team and few owners salary are somewhere on there.. I don't know how correct those numbers are, but whatever.

Maybe the NFL should copy the Wisconsin's playbook in regard to collective bargain. LOL. I could care less if there are no NFL season next year, but the whole situation is kind of funny.

I don't know how you feel about unions,but this is going to hurt us as far as a country goes on what happened in Wisconsin.If the rest of America does this the common working man will be in jeopardy.

As far as football thing,it's greed on both parts....Wouldn't surprise me if it's more on the owners part than the player's part though.

Oooops, getting close to starting something political. But I'll add one thing. My mother worked in a sweatshop in Fall River, Mass. She was a member of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union.

This is where it gets interesting and totally different from what unions advocate today. All the employees from those who cut the materials according to patterns, and those who stitched them together got paid by piece work.

The more you produced, the more you got paid. There was no guaranteed hourly wage. So, if an employee turned out twice as much work of the person next to them, they got twice the pay.

That would benefit me...Wish it was like that back in the day where I used to work...Many places I worked shut down or had to put 2-3 people to keep up with what I did.I took pride in working hard.  ;D

I agree almost too close to political.So I stop there.Don't mean to turn this tread away from the original topic at hand.

Does anybody know what exactly the owners are trying to get the players to agree on? I remember somebody saying an extra 2 games added on.Not sure what else the agreement is over.There's 2 sides to every story...until I hear both sides,I'm not taking any sides.

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From an old story on CBS News (please don't make me look for the link to it), the two parties are trying to figure out how to carve up a meager $9.2 Billion of annual revenue.

Currently, the owners get the first billion with the balance split owners 40% and players 60%.  New contract was going to give owners the first two billion with the balance split by the same percentages.  The math work figures out to a $600 Million swing from players to owners.

They also want to go from 4 preseason and 16 regular season games to 2 preseason and 18 regular games.  Add in a new pay scale for rookies along with an additional year (from 5 to 6) until free agency.  And just like everybody else, there would be a cost shift on who pays how much for health and disability insurance.

Like I said before, it's billionaires fighting millionaires for the fans dollars. 

Finally, I sure hope Cam Newton can find a college that will pay him enough to go back for another year of school.   ;)

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