Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
FishinDaddy

Fish Kill - Where are the pics...

Recommended Posts

As an avid tournament fisherman I was disturbed by the rumors of fish killed and the subsequent discussions on this form.  I have yet to see any pictures and proof of this fish kill.   If this happened as reported are we just going to let it go away after our attention span has run out? Or did it happen at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I talked to Lane last night. She said that the dust hasn't settled yet. The investigation is going full speed and the pictures have to be held  untill everything has been gone over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If BASS hasn't already released a statement, do you think maybe next year they will?    

  Any body see where Zapata Texas Residents ripped BASS publicly?

Me neither!   This story was so big, I think one newspaper reported on It.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got my latest issue of Bass Times. They have coverage of the tournament but I did not see a word addressing that issue. Guess they keep hopeing that it will fade away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just got my latest issue of Bass Times. They have coverage of the tournament but I did not see a word addressing that issue. Guess they keep hopeing that it will fade away.

If it did or did not happen to you think B.A.S.S. would write about it in it's own publication? Plus, look at what the heart-less you know what's did to the kids and their youth program this year, do you really think they care about a couple of dead fish? B.A.S.S has bigger problems right now, like still being afloat in ten years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only info I have seen came from the article Matt Fly mentioned the other day.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/rstrait/stories/MYSA041308.03C.strait_column_0413.en.3698856.html

Ron Henry Strait

San Antonio Express-News

Texas is ready for big-time bass fishing, but is big-time bass fishing ready for what Texas has to offer?

Under normal conditions, the answer is yes. Major tournaments such as the Bassmaster Elite Series are ready for most anything a fishery can offer.

That is, until Falcon Lake's offering hit the scales last weekend at the Lone Star Shootout.

In four days, Falcon gave up 31/2 tons of bass to Elite Series professionals and co-anglers.

Professional bass fishing had not seen such numbers before. Among the 1,386 bass (6,811 pounds) were dozens of fish heavier than 8 pounds and one caught last Friday that weighed more than 13 pounds.

That many big bass with a 13-pound headliner is big fishing news.

BASS, an ESPN-affiliated company that operates the Elite Series, took note of it all and the fact that the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department's Inland Fisheries Division had donated the 13-pounder to the ShareLunker program.

But Saturday morning, there were whispers that the 13-pounder might have died.

Elite tournament director Trip Weldon last week confirmed that news and more about bass mortality at Falcon. A total of 158 (11 percent) of the bass weighed at the Shootout died before they could be returned to the lake.

The mortality was higher than might be expected under normal conditions, said Phil Durocher, director of TPW's Inland Fisheries Division, and it is a matter of concern for TPW.

"What happened at Falcon was not the usual conditions," Durocher said.

No one, even locals, expected nearly 7,000 pounds of live fish to be brought to the scales.

Weldon said losing one bass is losing one too many, but the two live-release pontoon barges that BASS operates at all its tournaments were overwhelmed by so many huge fish.

Each barge sports a 750-gallon, oxygen-enriched holding tank. As the fish were weighed and sent to the barges, the tanks were trying to support as much as 700 pounds of bass at a time before they were sent to the open lake to be discharged. One gallon of enriched water per pound of bass proved insufficient to revive stressed fish.

Other factors were involved as well: The fish were pulled quickly from deep water to the surface; and the lake water temperature was in the 80-degree range.

Add to that, Weldon said, the 13-pounder was caught at 8:30 a.m. and hauled around in a bass boat live well for more than 8 hours. It made it to the scales alive, but died in a TPW holding tank about midnight Friday.

Randy Myers, TPW Inland Fisheries district biologist in San Antonio, agreed that fish stress, depth, lake-water temperatures and tournament mortality are linked.

That's why TPW is studying ways to increase bass survival, he said, and it's not just to help anglers.

Big bass are good for local economies, Myers said. Huge catches in televised tournaments can mean booms.

Of course, TPW is not alone in its desire to help the fish that are laying the golden eggs.

"I've been talking to BASS about different formats," Durocher said. "(BASS) is a leader in conservation and has been real innovative in its approach to these issues."

Weldon echoed the BASS conservation message and said the immediate response for this weekend's Elite event in Del Rio was to cut the co-angler limit from five to three fish a day. Co-anglers caught sixty-five of the dead fish at Falcon.

Durocher said another innovation to watch is the format for the Toyota Texas Bass Classic set for next weekend at Lake Fork. As each bass is weighed and recorded, it is immediately released alive back into the lake.

Mortality at last year's TTBC? "I'm not aware of any bass that died at the (TTBC)," Durocher said.

Zero mortality is a Texas bass record that all tournament anglers are ready to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to read the scoop from the locals go to www.falconlaketackle.com, click on the fishing reports on the left side and scroll down to around April 21 and read what they have said about it. No pics though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have read all the reports.  But I am supposed to believe that Lane is the only person on the planet who took pictures and that those pictures are "top secret" and that we can see them only after the NSA clears them for release.  Something smells a little fishy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fishin Daddy, I DID NOT TAKE THE PICTURES. Pictures were taken

by several people. If you want to see pictures, please contact Falcon

Lake Tackle or contact Ms. Peggy Umphreys, President of the Zapata

Chamber of Commerce. I AM NOT GOING TO POST PICTURES ON

THE INTERNET, and furthermore I am NOT GOING TO E-MAIL PICTURES until after the outcome of the public meetings. Please contact the above sources. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pictures are needed to prove the full extent of the fish kill after the weigh-in, but common sense is all that is needed to tell any of us that the average livewell isn't capable of providing an environment that will sustain a sack of huge bass for hours.  Tournament organizations should absolutely give this consideration in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless those pictures are shot like crime scene pictures, ie......... a number is set next to each fish, you want be able to tell if it was 158 or like some have said 4000-6000 lbs of dead fish.

    I love Chad Potts and his trail, this is not an attack against BC, its to compare some statements.

BASS was critized for release spot, but BC had to have guys in the water as well, shallow enough for them to gather fish on the bottom.

No critizing of BC for their release spot.  They have always done great on their own.

It was said most of the fish sank at the BASS event, then how will a few pictures tell an unseen story or the truth.   It was said that the majority never floated, they sank.  

Since over half of Bass Champs field was asked to release in deep water, how do you really know how many bass sank out there?  

Honest question, it was said deep hooked fish may needed to be fizzed first, then how do you get survival rates from fish that never hit a scale that could have sank to the bottom and never floated frpm BCs?

ABout the sinking of bass,   I can tell you that fish caught from the deep can't swim down due to the swim bladders, so sinking is not the norm on fish coming from the deep and having bladder issues.

   Trip Weldon said 65 out of the 168 were Co boater dead fish which is contrary to another statement of it was Co boater who killed their catch cause pros are pros.  Who would know that, people present or a source that told someone?    

Too much blog being written and believed and even when pictures comes out to give exact numbers.

     

Even the tackle store is just blog.       Why has it taken so long for anything publically to show up?    

   Notice when we said only one paper covered it, then some one said read some blog.

   What happened when the FLW had fish kill after tourney in Wisc?

   It made all kinds of press, not just bloggers.  

Senile is correct.     Livewells space on lakes like Falcon are at a premium.    We have a great example to help us in the future to learn from.      

If its such a big story, then why hasn't Zapata told it?   You better believe the Wisconsin hometowners told the press of how the FLW left tons of floating fish to be found.

Either they sank, or the birds ate them.  

       

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matt, You should really check your facts before you post. There

is a big difference between opinions and the actual facts.

You have brought up the FLW Wisconsin mortality. There is a full report

available from the Wisconsin DNR online. According to the report by

the Wisconsin DNR, both organizations experienced high mortality rates with smallmouth. The summary report credits high water temperatures to the the mortality during summertime tournaments. Nothing new here.

Comparing the release sites are like comparing apples and oranges.

Veleno cove is a very shallow release site and it is a pretty good distance to deeper water. The release site at BassChamps was next

to the river channel. It is a short distance to deep channel marker.

I am sure that you have scutinized the pictures that were posted by

J.P. Greeson, you should be able to see the channel marker out from

the release site in a few of those pictures.

Yes, Basschamps staff got in the water and took the time to recover the weak bass not expected to survive. I posted that fact in my mortality report, along with the ACTUAL number of fish that expired

or were deemed likely to expire.

During the BassChamps event there were a total of 201 teams. Of that

number there were 113 limits weighed in and 119 teams brought fish

to the scales. Eighty two teams did not weigh in and were instructed to

release HEALTHY FISH. Sure-Life employee David Short was available

to fizz any fish needing attention before release. He reported that four

teams needed assistance with fizzing. That amount was low because many fish were caught in 10ft of water or less. Tony and myself fished

Falcon Lake for two full days after the event and ALL OF OUR FISH WERE CAUGHT in 10ft of water or less, including my two double digits.

James, the owner of Falcon Lake Tackle not only makes his living off

the sportfishing industry but he also fishes tournaments. You refer to him as a, "blogger". I consider that pretty darned disrespectful for

you to doubt his credibility, especially since you DON'T KNOW HIM!

Zapata is taking the right steps by addressing this in a professional manner, by conducting PUBLIC meetings.

Matt, It really does not matter what you believe did or did not occur,

or the lenghty comparsions with other tournament organizations. I agree with James, you can keep your head buried in

the sand.

Since you brought up Trip Weldon, maybe you should ask J.P Greeson

about the backhoe incident. J.P was present when we were all told that

Mr. Weldon asked for a fish grinder and then a backhoe to bury the dead fish!

Matt, There is something that you should consider as it relates to us.

The majority of our business comes from the live bait and aquaculture

industry. For the most part, our work with bass and other gamefish is

PRO BONO, in otherwords we don't get paid. We donate WAY more than we sell, and for the most part we pay our own way and expenses

when we assist tournament trails. It is in the best interest of the sportfishing industry as a whole if the resource is properly managed and conserved for ALL to enjoy. We have nothing to lose by telling the

truth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lane, I too know James at Falcon Lake Tackle. He's a good man and I have found that when he prints something it is reliable and well researched. Thanks for backing him up. The last thing anyone that knows him would be to call him a blogger.

For those that do not know James purchased the tackle store after the death of Larry Bridgeman early last year. Larry spent the last 20 years fighting the issues surrounding the lake. He was instrumental in fighting the water level issues, illegil netting from the mexican side, the destruction of the white bass and crappie, the upkeep of the ramps, marking sites of dangerous underwater obstructions, and anything else for the betterment of the lake's fishery. Too many to list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Larry was definately a champion for the Falcon Lake fishery. James is

is continuing Larry Bridgeman's legacy, which always involved making

well informed and truthful statements.

For those of you insisting on seeing photographic evidence, I have provided you with sources. I can't guarantee that they will send them

to you just to satisfy your curiosity, but you can inquire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You posted it was from good source that is was Co anglers who killed majority of their catch.

Trip Weldon said as reported by the SA paper, That 68 co anglers fish died, which leaves 90 for the pros.

How is any one to believe anything as my whole point has been. He said, she said. Who do we believe. If anything, I kept saying wait and see.

There are two sides to every story is my point. You said, Not me, that you have reliable sources.

   I have said we learned a lesson from Falcon, lets educate the rest of the anglers.

Answer me this. You said the problem was worse, cause fish never floated they sank . Then you have pictures from friends and media. Media ask you not to show them, but what about your reliable friends who had pictures as well before the trip, they weren't media?

Then, without fizzing, those fish wouldn't have sank in the first place, bladders keep fish from diving for long periods, of course you knew that. But BASS wasn't fizzing and they have inadequate equipment to handle that kind of weight. And we learned that one the hard way.

Which I pointed out, when has any BASS record ever been shattered like that. Clear lake didn't come close to those weights.

Again, based on someone saying BASS was warned, well, if history shows itself, the same warning was said for Clear Lake, Amstad as well. It didn't happen until Falcon.

     So what is it? They sank or the birds ate them all?

      Was there a fish kill with the FLW in Wisc? Yes, not looking at what died or how. The fact was, it was plastered in the news, newspapers, magazines, and airways. Thats the only point to be made there by me. it was news!!!!!! Don't give hoot about what the reports said, it was news, thats the point.

      By the way, no disrespect to your friends. But what do you call some ones little blog full of fishing reports?

     I'm not gonna run around and scream the sky is falling when their are way too many stories out there that are miles apart.

      There are two sides to the story.

You said it was Co anglers, Trip said it was 68, thus 90 were pros. I gotta believe that the penalties were real and Trip is telling the truth as for what crossed the stage alive at that time.

Those fish are recorded and penalties accessed. How reliable is your source?

You are quick to point out things are inadequate and who killed the majority of the fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

**** Mod Edit****

I had to edit out several personal attacks on both sides of this argument. Please remember that there is really only one rule here, and that is to treat each other with respect. If you cannot, or will not do that, then it's time to move on.

This is turning into an "I'm right, and you're wrong" argument, with emotions taking over. Maybe it's time to take a deep breath and step away from the computer for awhile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will go along with that. It's just not right to acuse someone that you do not personally know, especially when the facts are being withheld until a later date. If everyone will give it a chance to work it's self through the process then maybe we all can make educated comments. JMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
**** Mod Edit****

I had to edit out several personal attacks on both sides of this argument. Please remember that there is really only one rule here, and that is to treat each other with respect. If you cannot, or will not do that, then it's time to move on.

This is turning into an "I'm right, and you're wrong" argument, with emotions taking over. Maybe it's time to take a deep breath and step away from the computer for awhile.

It seems there is a lot more interest and concern reguarding fish kills across the country than most would believe. I for one am always concerned when it comes to a fish kill of any kind anywhere in the country. I spent three years and have well over five hundred pages of water reports and legislation that I compiled along with many others fighting a papermill here in Texas that was illegially depositing materials in Sam Rayburn.  We were instrumental in getting the mill shut down several years ago. If others would take up the cause whenever an issue arises we can stop some of the issues reguarding our water quality and fish avisories that go unannounced or hidden from us.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand the problem with posting pictures of something that actually happened.  It seems to me that the more people see this, the less likely it will happen again.  Just my thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also don't understand what the hesitation is for, on the pictures... since there are PUBLIC meetings allegedly scheduled, the pics would be available to the public.  Right?  Seems like the ones protecting the pics are the ones that should want them out.

There are a number of seemingly important, but unanswered questions.  I have been trying real hard not to make up my mind but truthfully, it is tough because some of this makes no logical sense and answers are as scarce as photos.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have e-mailed Flechero a SMALL sampling of the more benign pictures. I have also asked HIM NOT TO POST THEM ON THE INTERNET.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lane,

I got them and responded back to the emails.  As agreed, I will not pass these along.  Thanks for trusting me with them.  (already deleted)

I do feel it's important to share what was in them, since many others also wanted to know.  I was a little surprised by the pics.  Most showed 1-3 fish and the worst one showed 6 fish washed up to shore.  I understand that I was sent the "mild" pics.  I am not discounting the severity of the event... but I had much worse images in my head.

Sadly though, there weren't any dinks in the pics I saw.   :(

I keep thinking that the format of the tournaments should be changed... personally, I'd love to see paper tournaments and instant weigh somehow adopted.  I certainly don't know what the answer is but as a sportsman and conservationist, this topic upsets me.

-keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My fear is that BASS won't even consider a change, because a change will be an acknowledgement of the fishkill at Falcon. I hope Trip isn't trying to sweep it under the carpet. I also think we need to stay on this topic and when all the facts are out we should put pressure on those involved to do something about it.

For right now we need to help educate any tournament official or Club president on the options out there to keep fish alive during and long after a tournament. Lane and Tony of Sure Life are leaders in this endeavor and we should do all we can to help them. Here is one of the best pieces of literature on this. http://www.sure-life.com/pdf/PRMbro.pdf

I know that Sure Life are our sponsors but as of this moment they possibly have the best solution for almost any tournament fishkill problems.

If you care about the fish that you catch and weigh-in during your tournaments then take this information and test it for yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keith saw a small sampling of close up shots, some were washed up dead fish and  some were floating fish. Of course these fish did not float up all at once, it happened over a period of several days. The shoreline is very vast so it is impossible to get the good pictures depicting the size of the fish with that large of a shoreline. It is none the less pretty darned disturbing!

IMO, the worst picture that I sent Keith was of a large fish still alive

and struggling at the surface.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • fishing forum

    fishing

    fishing forum

    fishing rods

    fishing poles

    fishing

    fishing reels

    fishing poles

    fishing

    fishing

    bass fish

    fish for bass
    fish

×
×
  • Create New...