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senile1

Lake/Pond Turnover or What?

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Yesterday evening I fished a pond that I've fished a few times this summer.  It's a large pond and it is fed by a creek and, according to the owner, a couple of springs.  The deepest water is near 30 feet.  The water is usually fairly clear, but yesterday it was murky, almost to the point of being muddy.  There hasn't been a big rain to speak of, in over a month.  Usually, the fishing is great at this pond for size and numbers.  Needless to say, the murky water slowed the fishing drastically.  I was wondering how it became so muddy.  Could this muddy/murky water be a result of  the pond turning over?  We have had some really cool nights in the upper 40s and lower 50s over the past couple of weeks though the days have been mostly 70s with an occasional 60+ thrown in.  I thought the air temperatures would need to be cooler than that to make a 30 foot deep pond turnover, but I'm not an expert on turnover.  Any ideas?

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I'm certainly not an expert on this either, but usually when there is a turnover there will be "gunk" (dead leaves, grass, etc.) floating around in the lake as well as the water turning muddy.

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I thought the same thing, Shad_Master, but there wasn't any "gunk" in this case.  

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"Turnover" is when the upper strata of the water column cools rapidly, changes in density ( density is inversely proportional to temperature ) and sinks. The phenomena is associated to a drastic change in the turbidity of the water. BUT, in order to turnover to happen the lake has to be deep enough to have stratification ( water strata with different temperatures ). 30 ft deep at the deepest point is barely enough.

Air temperature has little effect in water temperature in the short term, being 850 times more dense it also looses temperature at a much slower rate, while air temperature may drop several degrees water temperature but water temperature drop by tenths of degrees.

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Quote from Raul:

Air temperature has little effect in water temperature in the short term, being 850 times more dense it also looses temperature at a much slower rate, while air temperature may drop several degrees water temperature but water temperature drop by tenths of degrees.

That's why I thought the air temperature needed to be lower for a much longer period of time in order to affect any change in water temperature, which was stated in the original post.  So, Raul, you don't think this was turnover.  I had my doubts as well but I could think of no other reason for the condition of the water.  So I'm still left wondering why this pond became so murky.  

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It may be a turnover Senile, not caused by the changes in air temperature but by the water temperature coming from those feeder creek and springs you are talking about, colder water coming from those origins will have a much deeper and more drastic effect than the air temperature.

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Ahh . . . . good point.  Thanks, Raul.

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Yesterday evening I fished a pond that I've fished a few times this summer.  It's a large pond and it is fed by a creek and, according to the owner, a couple of springs.  The deepest water is near 30 feet.  The water is usually fairly clear, but yesterday it was murky, almost to the point of being muddy.  There hasn't been a big rain to speak of, in over a month.  Usually, the fishing is great at this pond for size and numbers.  Needless to say, the murky water slowed the fishing drastically.  I was wondering how it became so muddy.  Could this muddy/murky water be a result of  the pond turning over?  We have had some really cool nights in the upper 40s and lower 50s over the past couple of weeks though the days have been mostly 70s with an occasional 60+ thrown in.  I thought the air temperatures would need to be cooler than that to make a 30 foot deep pond turnover, but I'm not an expert on turnover.  Any ideas?

This reminds me of a trip me and my dad went on to target smallmouth on the Deleware River. We take the trip every year and each year we catch plenty of smallmouth floating down the river in a 10' raft. Last year the first day we did our drift, we caught around 30 smallmouth and it was raining almost half the day with nice cloud cover which made this fishing good. However when we went the second day all the rain had stained the water drstically due to the runoff of mud. This happned because there are steep hills and mountains all around the river. Needless to say we ddint catch a single fish, nor did we have a confirmed strike. Just a little insight.

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I understand what you're saying WhiteMike, but we haven't had enough rain to muddy a body of water for over a month.  Thanks for the input though.  That's what stumped me.  No rain, 30 foot deep body of water at the deepest point, almost muddy conditions, and air temps haven't been low enough, long enough to cool the surface water enough to result in turnover.  I think Raul is probably right about the cool springs that feed the pond.  They may have caused turnover in this body of water.  

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RollONTwo, no, it did not have a red tint.  What would that indicate?  

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The first thing that ruled rain out of the equation was: There hasn't been a big rain to speak of, in over a month

Red tint = diatom bloom.

Diatoms are unicelular algae with calcium carbonate exoskeleton Senile.

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With respect to Raul's statement, "diatoms" are the same marine phytoplankton

that create the infamous "Red Tide" in the ocean, responsible for staining my hull >:(

Roger

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Senile, I noticed in another post that you have been out of town quite a bit lately.  We had a BIG rain about 3 weeks ago ..... I think.  It was bad enough it flooded my basement a little and that doesn't happen unless we have significant rain fall.  I'll look back at the weather channel and see when that was.

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Well actually it was a little over a month ago.  August 25,26, and 27th we got over 6 inches of rain. ::) :-/

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With respect to Raul's statement, "diatoms" are the same marine phytoplankton

that create the infamous "Red Tide" in the ocean, responsible for staining my hull >:(

Roger

Yup, there are several species of diatoms, some are saltwater algae ( like the ones that cause "red tide" ) others are freshwater algae ( red/brown algae ), freshwater diatoms bloom when there 's a high content of phosporus ( phosphates ) in the water. Not an easy to see event but it can happen.

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