Paul Roberts

Here we go again. The very first this year of the "cruising bass" threads. Congrats on being the first this year! I'm not being a jerk, just noticing the seasons rollin' around again. Search "cruising" or "cruisers" ... from the search page and you'll see good discussions from previous years.

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country. Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it. I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Tom, If those perch are truly a pound, (~13"), or bigger than ~10" period, then I would say that they would have to be eating smaller fish. Where you found them makes perfect sense as they tend to be more pelagic-oriented. They are also voracious piscivorous, and very prolific reproducers. So...my guess from 2000 miles away is: they are sustained by YOY fishes -probably their own offspring. One other thing I'd ask is: Can those perch get in from the ocean or larger lake? That would be obvious to you, so I doubt it but have to ask. White perch are such effective open water piscivores that they can be fierce competitors with bass for food, and can crop down YOY of all species. YOY bass will move offshore to feed on plankton and midges, but a large popn of white perch would likely alter that scenario. Best survivorship in bass and other species is likely the shoreline vegetation. I bet your bass eat YOY white perch too. I would look into research on freshwater juv white perch behavior cases. What tendencies do they have? Find those young WP and you've got a bead on your bass too. Offshore xmas trees might be such a location. The insect hatch sounds like a midge hatch. From the sound of your description I suspect a tube-net variety. Most burrowing midges are larger and look like mosquito's. Look on the substrate and boulders and look for tiny (minute) vermiculated (wormy) markings that look like...dust or algae growth on the rock surfaces. These would be net spinning midges. They can cover entire pond substrates and produce billions of tiny adults. They feed very tiny fishes.

Weird. Kill the piscivores bc of mercury, then put more piscivores back in? :-?

Wow! No snow! LIQUID water. I almost forget what it's like.

A good book title on the subject of "greatness": "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. He researches where the "greats" actually come from.

Yes, congrats Pam. dave, my guess is the reason for the women's league is to encourage participation. Just hearing Kriet's public comment says a lot. Maybe Pam will be one of the first to make that jump. It's an intense, and expensive, game; One I for one haven't had much interest in. Happy to see Pam fish with, and above, much of the competition in the most competitive bass event there is.

Yeah, I think I read that too. All the elements were there. And so was KVD. Interesting about 2007. Similar scenario I read, but the weather warmed up and his fish spread out. This year it stayed cold and thus the location remained "chocked full of bass". Nothing new under the sun -except the sun LOL. We can only control so much of what happens -actually very little. It's not a static playing field -like a poker table. What's interesting is that the fish are reacting to conditions too, not just the anglers. Winning such a closely contested event like a Classic requires experience, homework, concentration, and some luck.

That "mental static" in my mind is the lack of experiential knowledge to make deliberate decisions based on something other than emotion.

;D Freudian slip?

Man, that's pretty unkind. They all built what we are all standing on. Clunn's ideas were a big step in breaking down bass water. You might not even realize just who's shoulders you are peeing from.

OK, in response to the depth is relative end of this discussion, or the either/or side of it... Some basic ecology -the best language I know for understanding "what goes on down there and why": I'll start with the pithy version, then give details for those who want it: The shallows, whether they are a 10 foot deep hump in mid-lake or a long tapering point, shoreline flat, or backwater slop bay, are the kitchen. Areas relatively nearby may act as the bedroom. The areas in between are often the dining room. More details (I bother giving them bc that's where the devil is): Supporting the "Prime Directive" (to reproduce) is access to food (nutrients in a form a given creature can utilize). In all living systems (for all practical purposes), nutrients are produced by plants via photosynthesis, which requires access to sunlight. In aquatic systems, for all practical purposes, photosynthesis is supported in two different ways: pelagically by plankton, and by rooted plants. From here, nutrients are passed on through a food chain/web. Bass, like all living things, live close to their food source. For mature bass this means fish and crayfish. Both of these in turn live close to their food sources -the magnitude of "close" depends on a creatures mobility. Key to all of this is access to sunlight. The shallows, whether they are a 10 foot deep hump in mid-lake or a long tapering point, shoreline flat, or backwater slop bay, are the kitchen. Areas relatively nearby may act as the bedroom. The areas in between are often the dining room. Know where the primary food sources are produced in the water body in front of you. For all practical purposes, all the food is produced in the band of water called the photic zone where light penetrates. In most freshwaters, most food is produced in the limnetic zones the areas where bottom substrate meets the photic zone. The areas within the limnetic that produce the MOST nutrients is in aquatic vegetation. Pelagic nutrient production tends to be secondary compared to rooted plants in raw capacity for cranking out nutrients per unit area. But, some waters have huge pelagic areas, thus can support large pelagic food sources like shad. All waters have both planktonic and rooted production, but the relative contributions vary greatly. Rooted veges produce the most per unit area, but my be overshadowed by the sheer scale of pelagic production. Bluegills, perch, and other fish besides the obvious ones also use pelagic food sources, as well benthicsources, which is food available in the bottom substrate. Benthic food is usually detritus based decaying nutrients produced nearby in the photic/limnetic zones. The benthic zone is thus MOST rich in nutrients closest to the source -sunlight. Crayfish and aquatic midge larvae (in soft substrates) or mayfly larvae (in harder substrates) feed a lot of shad, bluegills, perch, and other bass' prey fishes as well crayfish, in these zones. I once surprised a fishing partner by homing in on a great fishing spot in a relatively small mostly pelagic-based fishery by heading right to an area where nutrients washed in via a little drainage. Perch and bluegills were there in droves hunting midge larvae and there were bass with them of course. No noticeable classic structure either just the nutrient pile. But there was a small sharp (2-3ft) drop nearby, and a couple dead branches, that both collected bass bedrooms apparently. OK, I tried to keep this short and sweet. The point is, the shallows (pelagic or limnetic) are where the food production is, and bass have a love/hate relationship with it. They balance access to food with physiological constraints: temperature and light exposure being key. Different fish operate within certain temperatures best, and have their limitations. Too exposed to light and they are at risk of predation from anglers, pelicans, herons, osprey, mergansers, otter, mink, muskies, pike, bigger bass, flatheads,and the list goes on. No, this doesn't tell you where to fish at any given moment, but it provides the basics of how water systems work, and how/why they differ. And, particularly relevant to this thread, provides the fundamental definition of depth and how/why its meaning varies across waters.

Several things stood out: -With the impending spawn, the shallows held a lot of fish. The shorelines had the ONLY chance of warming, and there were periods of sun during the tournament. The protected areas (creeks and coves) were the place to be for fish density and activity. The pic that Senko77 posted in his pre-fishing day with Rojas said everything to me: channel in protected cove, under bright skies. What I;m guessing his spot lacked (he did catch some fish there) was good cover and likely, sheer amount of spawning substrate to draw large numbers of fish -although the photo was too narrow to know. -Much of the lake was roiled, the back of BC had the best clarity. -Live coontail beds. KVD said he side-scanned the whole lake looking specifically for live beds -which would also indicate protection from current and excessively cold temps -stability. KVD said his area was "chocked full of bass" and was full of shad too. KVD had it all. And he had it to himself.

I'm not in that league. But, I don't believe that there is no luck, or let's say "chance", involved in fishing at any level. It's a game of probabilities and all one can do is chip away at those probabilities. Thus, there is no "domination" of angling. My guess is KVD and every other pro would agree. I'm not going to take the time to look, but I bet every pro has made comments supporting this -that in fishing you simply do not have control of what's going on below. You can only think, plan, react, adapt, adjust, and at times, simply pray. KVD may be cool headed, but he "prays" at times too.

I don't know much about all those specific reels and rods you mention. But, in general: What you want in an UL reel is retrieve speed. I'm sure you'll get that in most nowadays. But avoid tiny spools that only offer 20ipt. As to rods, man...once IM6 hit the racks, good ULs were everywhere. Expensive high modulus is nice to have, but IMO not as important in a short light power rod, than in a longer stronger power rod. As in any rig, decide on the line rating you want: 1-4, 2-6, 4-8. The line ratings differ in the hook sizes you'll be using, and the fish you'll be fishing for: For soft mouthed fish in open water the 1-4 is dyno. I use this for trout with little in-lines and tiny jigs -1/64 to 1/16 w/light wire hooks. I like a stronger rod for bass, bc I will be using slightly larger lures with heavier hooks, and may need to steer a fish from cover. Also, going too light for the fish is not as much fun a fight as one with scaled tackle. Some stuff to think about. Then, if you can, go to a store and try the rigs in hand. See what you like best; I'm sure all you mention are good reels and rods.

Didn't look at the rig, but there are lots of good outfits nowadays. I think others advice is good; start easy and find out if your inteerst has the staying power to get you far enough into FF. It isn't easy and this is frustrating. If you really want to give it a fair shake I have two pieces of advice: -Get some casting instruction from someone who knows how to teach it. -The fly-line is CRITICAL to minimizing frustration. I am not up on fly-lines of the last few years, but 10 years ago a "beginners" fly-line was garbage IMO. If the line you end up with is soft enough that it sags in the guides, I urge you to get a better one. Better lines have a harder coating that makes them stiffer, and they move (and can shoot) through the guides WAY better. If you cannot, or do not wish to, invest in a good line, then realize the handicap is not all yours. Distance and line handling (a huge part of FF) will be harder to achieve. And learn to "roll cast". Keep in mind though, that FF is mostly a short range game. More like hunting with archery gear than with a rifle. FF is VERY satisfying, but it takes time and practice to gain the control you need to be really effective.

That doesn't quite make sense. It's an artificial reservoir. What native species are they interested/concerned about?

Makes perfect sense. He's got WAY more experience than I.

In my mind, 16 wins out of 221 attempts is not "domination". He's a strong contender. Too many variables for anyone to dominate in fishing. When he starts winning half his attempts, or places in the top ten in all of them, I'll consider the word "domination". But it's just semantics between friends really. I was pleased to see him win too.

Yeah, it was very cool to see. I remember blurting out, "My God, that things fast!" She was very smooth too, like she was on wheels -complete control of her head -locked on target. Very powerful, very impressive. I laughed at myself trying to reel up to her. She spat it and melted away well before I got there. Usually fish stop and/or turn and you can hook them. She just kept on coming.

Excellent post. Refining patterns: Once I saw, on the first day, he had high catch numbers I knew he'd be in contention. I think in a post I said, "Look at his catch and cull numbers. Game over??" Anything might happen, but his early season fish weren't going anywhere, and he is as you say, able to refine (and adjust) better than anyone. As to your statement: He does talk, but it doesn't mean we're in position to fathom things. Fishing just isn't cookbook. It's real time assessment of a large number of variables. He's adept at assessing which are most important at any one time. And of course he isn't fool proof. It ain't magic. But he's got more knowledge to transfer than most. So...even if he did tell, most of us wouldn't put the 12Z(X-7.37Y)/(various greek LOL) .... together! I find that the more I learn and incorporate into my lexicon, the more I get out of my fishing, and my reading. I can re-read good articles over and over and glean new stuff -reading in between the lines -realizing why certain statements are said, or where they likely came from. It's called "transfer" (my wife's a teacher) -what you can glean out of information is proportional to what you already know.

Great thread idea Jack. I'll pop this in from another related thread on Classic lipless tactics from the Tackle section. Presentation tactics through my filter (my 2 cents): No. If I read you right, I think you may be missing the subleties: he did catch many on the fall. Worth throwing out there bc I think a lot of people think (and I'm not saying you necessarily -I'm jumping off from your post) try to get fish to come to their lures. Most often, it's the other way around; You have to bring the lure TO the fish, and then make it do something special to elicit strikes. What that "special" is is altered by conditions. I'm sure he did a bunch of things through the day. He said he did have some key strike zones he was hitting -literally. Doesn't mean his fish did not hit on the pause or drop. When you see him retrieving straight he was not expecting a bite -he was moving his plug into position for a bite. BIG difference. He wasn't expecting the fish to come to him -esp in the cold water -he was going to them. As he described it, he had some key objects. One was a particular stump he caught 7 fish off of. He would retrieve to it, hit the stump, then let the bait 'flutter'. That's when they would hit it. He said his area was "chocked full of bass" but he had to do some tricks to dupe them. He caught them one at a time, saying it wasn't easy fishing. Lures, even Classic winners, are not magic all by themselves -it's specifically where and how they are used that elicits the bites. Unless he's got new fish moving in (and apparently didn't so much this time around), this becomes more and more the case as his fish get worked over. As to brand, color, etc... this is less important than the stump. Kevin said he used only two colors, but one brand -the Red Eye. What was most important was where he put it and how that lure behaved: I'm assuming the behavior on the fall was something he was taking advantage of. Again, I thought it was interesting that the top producing lipless in BC were all baits that would fall horizontally, and not tumble on the drop. I wonder how much this entered in? What a falling or pausing bait offers is the bass an opportunity to make a sure kill. This becomes more important in cold water. In warmer water, other baits, like Traps and Spots might have worked better.

Here's the piece from ESPN. Scroll down to Where Do The Fish Go? http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/tournaments/classic/news/story?page=b_classic_10_Notebook4

Why is VanDam so good? Good interview: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4935245&categoryid=4445315 Here's a good quote, from ESPN's Pete Robbins: "...After 20 Classics, he's only won three times. As a batting average, that would be poor, but compared to his competitors, he's Ted Williams. "In this sport, you're going to lose a lot more than you win," he said."

Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool too. Lane went fishing! Very cool. I also liked seeing Pam Martin-Wells get her limit each day. I wonder if she'll stay with it and what she'll develop down the road.