Paul Roberts

Culling fish can be a good way to distribute available food to fewer but ever larger mouths. But beyond that the pond also has some fish that have survived long enough to grow large. If the other anglers using the pond are bait fishing it may be that they are taking mostly smaller fish which can be a good management strategy for bass ponds. A possible deathknell for the large bass might be anglers lure fishing that can't bring themselves to turn back the larger fish. Relatively few waters can crank out fish like you are describing. Enjoy it. Keep quiet about it.

Check for a first-light bite. Can be a wild first hour or so.

Don't go barbless with a jig. Many baits hold fish just fine barbless. But jigs aren't one of them -in any weight or configuration -in my experience. As to killing a fish... it happens. Good that you care but realize that, as an angler, you are acting as a predator and that you must come to your own reconciliation with that.

They can change coloration in a matter of minutes. Pop a dark bass into a white bucket and you'll see.

Here 'tis: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/122013-ever-seen-a-bass-with-red-eyes/page-3

LM can have red eyes at times too. There was recently a thread on it.

I'll share a little fishing story. Yars ago a friend and I fished a pond that a local kid said was called "dink pond" bc that's all that was in it. My friend and I fished small jigs, worms and topwaters and caught... lots of dinks, and one 15"er. One day my buddy decided to bring his "big rod" and some big jigs and at one point he got a bird's nest. He let his jig lay dead under a matted stick-up for a full minute or so while he picked it out. When he finally lifted that jig he was suddenly tethered to a big bass. It was 23.5" long with a serious belly. After that we got lunker fever and up-sized. We first tried night fishing it. I remember is was spooky that first night with a swamp below us up on the dike and mist was hanging low over the swamp under he moon. Gave us the heebie-jeebies. But it was worth it as my buddy took a 22" on a SB. The rest of that summer we took a 21", a 20", and a 19" -one just at dark, the others during the day. Sometimes you find what you are looking for. If you come equipped for dinks, that's most probably what you will get. I use M to UL tackle at times of course. Sometimes it's required. But I came to realize that, in a lot of waters, you can't go too big for largemouths. (Although I hear that some CA anglers have found 16" swimbaits a bit over the top.)

Varies with latitude, water body, and angler's expectations for the day. For me, where I've fished, it's run the gamut from 10inches to 6lbs. I tend to view it from a biological perspective which converts to the "mature" fish -those that have survived long enough to reach maturity. That can cover quite a range depending on the water body. For most of the waters I now regularly fish, it's in the 13" to 15" (and up) range. In many of my waters, an 18"er is a "big bass". A 20"er is a "BIG bass". And a 22"+ is a "huge bass". Then there are the "Leviathans". I haven't seen one of those, but I know they are out there.

That fact that there are large panfish makes this interesting. This speaks to the overall productivity of the lake and its ability to grow fish. If there are good numbers of these big panfish, it indicates an abundance of small prey. With the large panfish and good numbers of small bass, the lake sounds like a great place for fish to get a good start in. But small prey sources –even lots of them– do not usually grow and sustain large bass. Bass generally need a lot of appropriately sized fish in their diets to grow large. Likely annual production of fishes in your lake gets cropped down with all the competition and their having few places to hide, leaving relatively small populations of mid-sized prey fishes left over for the following year. Those small panfish that do manage to survive grow quickly, and beyond the gape size of all those small bass. When bass run out of food, or the food is expensive to capture (as has been seen to be the case in open water environments), the bass basically hit a wall to growth, maturing at a smaller size and potentially resulting in a population of small bass. While those big bluegills and crappies are likely too large for the vast majority of bass to eat, there might be individual bass that have left their cohorts behind and grown big enough to eat them. I’d check this out by bringing a rod or two dedicated to up-sized baits like swimbaits, BIG spinnerbaits/buzzbaits, and topwaters like a full-sized Zara, wakers, or a Jitterbug. Expect fewer catches overall but greater potential for finding those individuals that have broken through the wall. You can always get your rod bent with the small bass by down-sizing when you need the boost. Undoubtedly there are some big bass in the lake, but whether they exist in worthwhile numbers is an obvious question. Such fish will certainly show up occasionally in community catches so it pays to keep your ears to the ground. You are right in questioning whether your acquaintances "big bass" was truly a BIG bass. People don’t often actually weigh and measure, and guestimates are too often more about the excitement of the moment, or relative size, than reality. When assessing a waters potential, reality is a big help. The fact that the man mentioned “a mouth he could stick a fist in” is promising at least. The photo of the bass you provided is not one of those BIG bass that snarfs 7” and 8” ‘gills like popcorn. But it does show a quality bass in good body condition, which is promising. Post-winterkill years, if the kill was not too widespread, can put in motion conditions for rapid bass growth due to reduced competition -possible "cracks in the wall", so to speak. Your new home lake sounds like an interesting enough place. Let us know what you find. There is a trip reports section here.

Can you join the club? Likely the quickest road.

John, I thought mebbe you'd joined the bucket brigade. Since the OP mentioned he’d done well on this water using topwaters I wondered whether there really was 6in or less in visibility. I tend to put the topwaters away (“noisy” or not) in those conditions, along with… finesse worms. Now I’m sure someone out there has slayed them at one time or another with to topwater or finesse worms with 6in of visibility. But that hasn’t been my experience. The OPer could be describing that black bottomed tannin stained water. Or, it may not be stained at all, being an algal bloom and depending on lighting he could have been seeing illuminated "scattering" which could make it appear worse than it actually is. I suggest he go ahead and measure in this case, which might allow him to be more comfortable with his decisions. You know, I love the idea of "let the fish tell you". But what if they don’t? Ever had that happen? As to the science words ... I guess I don't know what else to call some of that "stuff" we see out there. For one thing, "stain" is not a ubiquitous word for all less-than-transparent water. TonyL, if it really has 6in of visibility and you want to try plastics: go dark, go bulky, and fish close -even tight- to cover. Give it a shot and tell us what happened. (BTW, it's the egg! The egg predates the chicken, being a MUCH older development.)

Great question and great responses. I agree with... all of it! There are all kinds of "soft plastics". When I measure such things it's to get some sense of the scale of things out there, rather than as something directly applicable. Values may be helpful as basic limnological/ecological background info on a water body. But in terms of immediate fishing decisions, an actual value doesn't mean anything. Yeah, bass can make good livings in such a wide range of conditions. This does not mean that clarity never factors in. Nice nuanced response. Bass that grew up in low clarity adapt at a developmental level and can be effective hunters in low clarity. This is not an instantaneous process. Waters that are normally very clear that undergo a sudden turbidity change can end up with very skinny bass until it clears. Beyond such extremes, bass in most waters experience a range of visibility conditions and can hunt effectively in a wide range of lighting conditions. Speaking of academics... Not only does this (light travel distance) work as you describe vertically, but horizontally too, although I'm not so sure the 6ft number wouldn't be slightly less due to attenuation at depth. Not sure. Guess we'd have to measure that one. Anyway, the point is that there is more light getting through than we might think when we lower a lure (or secchi disk) down to check visibility. Further, bass are apparently quite light sensitive -more so than some of their common prey like bluegills and shad. Most bass we fish to are well equipped to deal with low visibility conditions.

Agree with the above: recent stockers being aggressive, fishing pressure having a strong effect. Also water temps could be getting a bit high now (your being in FL and in a small pond with likely little circulation -related to oxygen issue mentioned) so fish could be laying low during daylight hours. Some suggestions: -First, try speed. When water warms bass often need speed to trigger them. You'll know you are getting close when you see the little ones chasing up. -Try at night (addresses fishing pressure, and day time heat issues) -Try crack of dawn (addresses daytime heat (but not oxygen although can identify it), and meets a common activity rhythm in fishes -the "first-light bite") Ponds changing: Darn right they change. It's the norm, not the exception.

Catchability varies with: -season -immediate environmental conditions -circumstances (many that affect fish mood; only one being angler presence) -individual fish (some are simply uncatchable) If we could see what's going on down at our lure as we fish we'd probably hang it up. We don't catch the vast majority of the bass down there at any one time. Fish a tiny pond over the course of a year and you'll probably stick the majority if you know what you are doing, although there will likely be a few that will never bite. You actually got to actually see it (it now being the spawning season where you are in CT with many of the fish being so shallow). Now don't get knocked off your horse. You're not alone, and there's plenty to learn that will make enormous differences in your catch rate. And when you're old and grizzled with a scarred thumb you can share your wisdom with the next guy.

I am more interested in methods and techniques than colors. I can't remember ever changing "colors" to see if that would turn the tide or add strikes. I've had too many favorite plugs with the color worn off that still caught fish. Whatever it is, that's not color. If I'm not catching after adjusting the important stuff, I move before switching colors. Doesn't mean I don't have preferred colors/finishes. I guess I'd already made my color decisions at the store and don't need to revisit them on the water (beyond adjusting to immediate conditions). Don't think I've ever dedicated a rod to a color -although I suppose that spinnerbaits have come closest as I have come to use black under dark sky conditions and white under brighter skies, and would get the heeby-jeebies if I had a black buzzbait on under bright skies. Brrrrrrrrr... I can feel 'em now! Acknowledging Tom's comments, I'm fishing northern largemouths and have almost no experience with Florida's.

Anywhere. Any type of bottom, or none at all. I fish jigs from bottom to top.

I used to do well with the Long A a while back. I was into crankbaits and the Long A was the only thing I had that would cast long and run super-shallow. Worked well. How are you using it?

Long rod and 'hunting' bait?

Technically, no. Here's a previous thread on the subject: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/147120-school-bass/ What you might be seeing in your pond are fish in winter aggregation, or possibly prespawn -depending on when your fish spawn. In central FL you might have water cold enough to create winter aggregations, and in south FL the latter is likely. The smaller summer groups you mention are probably hunting together.

Yes, deflection is one way to get direction changes and triggering. But just sticking the rod off to one side or the other -sometimes both- can trigger strikes. It can’t really be done with too long a line out, working best nearer the end of the retrieve. I'll do several things to try and trigger strikes. When I come to a piece of cover I'm apt to crash it, or accelerate past it. Or I may kill it, esp if the cover piece is dark and has an edge for bass to pop out from. When I cross open spots I may reach out to one side with the rod to abruptly change direction. I may even zig-zag here and there. The idea is to look like a panicked prey fish. Just an acceleration can do it, and it doesn't take much –a few accelerating cranks of the reel handle -deadly with a SB, lipless, or swim jig. Sometimes I think people get strikes when their attention starts to fade (and at the very end of retrieves) bc they inadvertently vary the retrieve. “Varying the retrieve” does not mean just randomly breaking things up. Being thoughtful about when and where you apply those variations is where the casting becomes fishing. Direction changes are the reason why some lures are so effective such as walking topwaters, CB’s that ‘hunt’, and bladebaits. Lures that fall, such as jigs, are essentially doing a direction change as they fall, although there’s more to the reason falling baits are so effective on bass than direction change. And speaking of the "end of retrieves", a big triggering advantage bank anglers have is inherent in the fact that they are retrieving the lure from the depths into the shallows. A following bass has to react quickly before the “prey” escapes into the shallows –a strong trigger. Bill Siementel talks about this one too, although this isn’t news to wide awake shore anglers everywhere. Bank fish enough and you’ll see this natural trigger in action, and then can watch for opportunities to take advantage of it. You know deep, I've not tried figure-eighting for bass. I should probably try it some.

SB's have been a GoTo for me under certain conditions -and clear open water with no cover ("swimming pools") doesn't tend to be one of them. That said, I can't imagine not having confidence in SB's in general. For waters with little cover here's what I'd suggest: -Use what "ambush points" you have available: if only the bottom and surface film. -Visibility conditions factor in esp if there is little cover, so I'd be looking for some overcast, surface chop, and off-colored water to chip away at probabilities. -Triggers can make it happen: Speed (keep it moving), and speed and direction changes help a lot. -Translucent/realistic skirts and "colors" might help in clear water. I can be pretty picky about, and am continually shopping for, skirts. -Downsize a bit. -Upsize in weight to add speed and crashing ability. This can also be done with many SB's by adding a 'pinch-grip' sinker to the shank behind the skirt. The overall idea I'm getting at above is that SBs give a good baitfish impression but it helps if visibility is obscured some via conditions, ambush points, speed, skirt color, and overall size. Seems that there's more to obscure with a SB than with many other baits, or that it factors in more. Ach! I wrote all this and then realized I'd confused this thread with another talking about waters with little cover. So... add cover and structural elements and... SB's are just plain bass catchers from shore or boat. Google Earth is an amazing pre-scouting tool.

Ned Rig represents the current form of an old standby -the finesse grub. I started using them in the 70's using the head section of a broken plastic worm on a jig head. They worked, and still work, great. The use of the "elastic" plastics in the Ned Rig adds buoyancy and durability. But the old school ones work too. Don't wait for the new stuff to arrive in the mail. Nip the head off a broken worm and fish it.

Large aggregations of bass will collect on or near particular spawning banks. There can be impressive numbers of mature bass and it’s pretty exciting to see. For a long time I held onto the idea that this was moon related, as one of the first times I saw it was during a full moon window, and you read so often about the moon and spawn. But I don’t think that’s the case anymore, the moon phase was more coincidence. Not discounting some effect entirely, but there are other things that are more important. Regardless, the numbers can be impressive –at times I’ve seen what looks like the entire population of mature bass piled up along one shoreline, alternately holding or slowly cruising back and forth. They don't always spawn right then either; I've seen big aggregations form and then drop back away. As exciting as it is to see, they aren’t as gung-ho to crack lures as pre-spawn feeders are. They are focused on each other and show little interest in chasing lures.

You may be confusing "school" bass -those that hunt together in a large group for schooling pelagic preyfish- with an aggregation of individual and small-group bass collected up on spawning habitat. Timing is right where you are for the latter. Peri-spawners can be tough; their minds being on other matters.

The issue is apparently the costs of growing gametes. Undernourished bass must obtain the nutrition (fats in particular) to have gametes mature. Fish that come into, and make it through, winter in good condition tend to spawn first (which may not mean early but on time). These may not always be the biggest individuals in the lake, but those in best condition. Often big fish are the ones in best condition though. What is notable is that the latest spawners tend to be the real little ones -when more 10inchers show up to give it a shot. At these late dates some larger females may still be around still willing to spawn though. Then there's the issue of accurate sampling. It can be hard to tell what is actually happening out there especially with limited observations (fishing only on weekends say). This is not an attack in any way, as I hold myself to the same standard. It's just darn hard to be there seeing enough to have an accurate description of things in nature, especially those occurring underwater. I'm going on what the biology literature describes. It's certainly possible that your water has some large fish spawning later, and/or "smaller" ones spawning early. It's just not the usual thing according to the literature. And we don't actually know the condition factors of those groups of fish. Hope this helps.