MickD

RW, what does the Shimano backplay protect the reel from? I have many reels with one way bearings/clutches, Shimano, Quantum, 2 different BPS, Ambassador, and I don't detect any backplay on any of them, if backplay means spool rotation before the one way clutch engages. I'm either easy on this issue or I lucked out on all my reels.

Thanks Reelmech for your comments on the number of ball bearings that affect casting. I never could understand what all those bearings were doing, and even where they all were. May explain why my old Shimano Calcutta with 2 BB is one of the best casting reels I've ever had. In answer to one comment, yes I've used baitcasting for salt water fish, both the old Calcutta and a newer Quantum Cabo, and for certain kinds of fishing they are far superior to spinning. I think they are easier on the body for casting long periods, but where they really shine is bait fishing. When you want to let out line instantly, just hitting the thumb bar is much quicker, easier, and more reliable than trying to open a bail when the fish is taking line. When trolling sardines for barracuda the cuda often cuts the sardine in half, you miss the fish, but it comes back for the other piece if you can let line quickly enough. And when you want to stop the fish, engaging the spool is easier and quicker than closing the bail. For casting light stuff to bonefish, spinning is the best way, in my opinion. For either baitcasting or spinning, the quality of the drag is a major issue. Just about any drag will work for bass-not so for salt.

I have built two of these 843 rods from blanks, one for my adult son and one for me. We both love them. They are very sensitive in spite of being quite soft. I have caught everything from small bass to 15 pound king salmon on mine, and it handles everything very well. For casting the rods cannot be beaten (for lures in the 1/4-5/8 range) because they are very light, soft enough to load well, and being soft, are very easy on the arm. It is the best one handed casting rod I've ever experienced. Yes, I know I have not tried them all, but for the right range of lure weights, I think you will be very pleased. My son uses his for jig and pigs, too, and constantly comments on how sensitive it is.

Just saw your post on 30# braid. While really expert casters may find some of the softer braids at 30# OK, it is tougher to cast well than say 12-14 # mono. The old Fusion I liked so well had a diameter of about 12 # mono, and I think was about as stiff. It was much different than some of the 30# monos. Your 30# braid probably has a diameter something like 8-10 # mono? I expect I would have more trouble with that than heavier braid. If you like braid try going to higher pound test. The Suffix braid has words in its advertising that sounds like it may have surface bonding that may make it better than Power Pro for a BC. I have a spool but have not yet tried it.

Hey Reelmech, had a bad day? The issue of soft braid on a BC is not BS. Yes you have to consider the whole setup as a system, but soft braid is much more susceptible to getting slung away from the spool and then over the line as it leaves the spool, locking up the spool, or something like that. On a borderline case of it you can hear it hitting the frame of the reel, but it doesn't stop the spool. Stiffer mono just doesn't do it as much. And stiffer "braid doesn't either. If the line gets too stiff you have other problems. There is an optimum. You're right about a solution, but what the original writer described didn't sound like a normal backlash and tips to get him out of the problem, if he is using soft braid, would include not only resetting the reel but possibly moving to a stiffer braid or possibly mono. The best line I ever cast on my BC's was 24 # Fusion, and I've never found any line since then that cast as well or was as insensitive to changing lure types or weights. To almost match its performance I now use 40 # Power Pro but am going to try a few others that sound like they may be a little stiffer, and better for a BC. Some lines are better than others (think different diameters, different stiffness, different density) for BC and to ignore that fact is to not open the mind to all the possible fixes. If the writer is a relative novice he could use all the information pertinent to his problem, not just part of it.

While it is impossible to really know without personally checking it out, if you are using braid, z11541 probably has the right answer. Some braid is too soft and tends to do what he is proposing. If you are using mono of higher test than about 12, that phenomenon is not likely. If this is what is happening, using higher brake settings will help as will practicing a smoother, less abrupt, casting style. If this is going on, you usually can hear it happening, too, up until it actually stops the cast. If you are using braid and want to continue using braid, find a braid that is a little stiffer (pound test in the 35-50 is good for me in Power Pro, but if I get sloppy, what you describe is still on the borderline of occuring-can hear it). I use only braid on bait casting-love the sensitivity/lack of stretch-but it has its downsides and you may have found one. I use a fleuro leader of about a rod length attached with uni-uni or Albright knots.

Couldn't find what I thought I remembered from Reelmech. There is a lot of info on Rodbuiders.org and just do google search for spiral wrapped fishing rods.

It wasn't mentioned yet that there are a number of ways to do the spiral wrap. My last rod was done with the "simple spiral" as recommended by Tom Kirkman of the Rodbuilders.org forum http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2. I think Reelmech has some good info on spiral on this site-will check and report back. My last casting rod was built this way and before I wound the guides I tried it with simple spiral, conventional, and a progressive spiral, and could find no difference in casting performance. You can easily demonstrate the advantage you get in fish fighting by taking a conventional casting rod, and load the rod with the rod in one hand and the line in the other, starting with the line directly under the rod tip. Generate a substantial bend in the rod with the line aligned right under the tip, then move your hand with the line outboard so that the rod is being loaded somewhat from the side. When your line hand gets far enough outboard the rod will snap over with the end guides now going under the rod instead of staying on top. The rod will have twisted 180 degrees in an instant. If when fighting a fish you always have your conventional casting rod pointed at the fish then you may not feel a difference, but if the rod is loaded from the side, then you will see and feel a conventional rod snap as in the experiment above. The spiral rod will be stable under any loading conditions, and as a result will be stressed less (no twist + bend, only bend). Rodbuilding.org has a library that had the instructions for the simple spiral, but in a nutshell it goes like this: Size and locate your guides in a normal fashion for your casting rod. Put the rear-most guide on top, and all others on the bottom, but in the same axial locations as if you were going to wind a conventional rod. Add an extra guide 1/2 way between the normal guides 1 and 2 and locate it at 90 degrees to the others. I put that guide on the right side so it will be up when I lay the rod down with the reel handles up. It should be no bigger than normal guide number 2 and should be a very low profile guide. Its only function is to keep the line off the rod during the transition from the top to the bottom, and it will be loaded, as all others are, directly in line with the foot of the guide (this is important on heavy duty rods).

The Loomis CB843 would be a very nice crankbait rod, and I use mine for spinnerbaits also, but most on this forum probably would recommend a little stiffer rod for spinnerbaits, especially with mono. I use only braid. I am not familiar with the rods others have recommended, but the people recommending them are credible. I always recommend erring on the softer side for casting rods since the softer rods are so much easier to cast and easier on the arm when you are casting all day. You want the casting rod to load like a fly rod, then release its energy to help the cast. Stiff rods don't do that unless you are using quite heavy lures. The rod must be matched to the weight of the lures to load properly. I personally prefer longer rather than shorter rods. The shortest casting rod I have is 6' 6", and I prefer the 7 footers I own to the 6 6's. With two fishermen in a short boat, I would revise that recommendation.

Also consider what line you will be using, braid vs mono/flouro. If you plan to use braid, go softer than if you plan to use mono or fluoro. I am convinced that most guys go too stiff and don't ever experience how easy and comfortable it is to cast with a softer rod, 7 foot length, like the Loomis CB 843. And it will handle any fish. Period. As someone mentioned, it is not what you are fishing for as much as what you are going to be fishing with. And a softer rod loads nicely, is easy on the arm, and casts easily, especially with braid, and especially with cranks.

AnthonyRss, what type of reels are you using with yours. It is the 6' 8" 10-17 fast mentioned, and it was sold by Mudhole as a Shikiri shII, without decal as had been mentioned in previous posts. If it's not shikiri, I got screwed. But not out of much at the discount price. Looks and feels very good. I don't have a reel plan yet as I don't know whether to build it into a casting rod or a spinning. Am leaning spin since I don't have a good "heavy" spinning rod-mine are more to the medium/fast variety. Hoping for more comments. thanks, Mick

Anyone with experience making a rod from a Shikiri MB683 (Mag Bass) blank? Couldn't resist buying one on sale, but not sure what is the best way to use it. The blank feels a lot like the Loomis SB 812 (spinner bait - the middle action one) in the hand. It feels like it could make a great casting rod for lures in the 1/2-1 oz range, like the Loomis, or a fairly stout spinning rod for heavy jigs, jig & pigs, etc. Might make a good dropshot rod? Would be very effective for twitching, I would think. Comments please. thanks, Mick

I am working on a spinning rod right now that will incorporate part of the design in these posts. If all goes well it will have a burl cork foregrip of about 2 inch length that will have "arcs" sanded out of it on the top and the bottom that will fit the thumb on top and the finger underneath. It is for my son who, when jigging, has only the pinky behind the reel stem. I don't know if he casts this way or not, but he wants to be able to touch the blank with both fingers but doesn't like the look of "no cork" up there. The double cutouts will make it look a little goofy, IMHO, but that's what we are working on. Functionally, with the way he holds the rod, it should work very well. My only concern is with the structure of the cut-out foregrip. There won't be a lot of cork left. I think I can get a solid partial "ring" of cork at both the front and rear of the cork and plan to use the rubberized cork for the front cork ring. Anybody tried this before? Comments?

RW, a question- I found a chart on typical pound test vs strength for different kinds of lines, and the Yozuri Hybrid lines are on a line between mono and braid, indicating significantly higher strength vs diameter than mono. The Yozuri web site talks of its higher density, which would make sense based on its strength-the strength has to come from somewhere. From the web site: Because of the high density and specific gravity of fluorocarbon, Yo-Zuri HYBRID weighs more than nylon monofilaments. Casting distance is appreciably greater than similar diameter nylon lines because line weight is an integral component in achieving casting distance. Also, the hard, slick finish creates far less resistance as the line runs through the guides. It sounds like great stuff, and I plan to try some, especially the 6# for spinning-I would love to find a 6-10 pound line that handles well- but I don't see how with its high specific gravity it can float? thanks, Mick

I've used many models of both BPS and Cabelas rods and I think you get about what you pay for (except sales will move this around significantly). Buy the best you can afford at either place. With spinning, the rod is the most important, in baitcasting the reel is the most important. The whole system has to be right, but my point is if you have to compromise a little, do it on the reel in spinning and on the rod in casting. A couple things to keep in mind on reels- Pro repair people sometimes will not work on reels other than the name brands like Shimano, Daiwa, Quantum, etc. You can get really good deals on name brands from the stores on Ebay-just make sure the seller has 98% or better in the seller ratings.

I presume since you were talking about 20 pound line that you are asking about line for casting reels. I used to use some copolymers of 14 pound, and liked them. Then I tried braids and probably will never go back to mono/copoly. I really love the terrific sensitivity of braid and the fact that I can cast well with line that is very strong. I am using braids from 30-40 pounds. They last a lot longer than mono/copoly, so their high up front cost is not an issue. They also have no memory, so don't coil after being on the reel for a while. Some cautions about braid: Even though you may be using 25-40 pound test, set your drag as if you were using 12-15 pound test. Braid, being small in diameter for its strength, will tend to dig in as you have experienced, but with lighter drag settings, it is usually not a problem with modern braids. I havn't had it happen in years. Some do and some don't use a leader. The arguments go on forever. A leader of fluoro will give a little cushion to the zero stretch of the braid. If you choose to use a flourocarbon leader, as I always do, use a leader quite a bit lower in pound test than your main line. Then if you have a break-off it will usually be at the lure and not at the main line or main line to leader knot. . . if you use the right knot to tie the leader to the main braid line. Most recommend a uni to uni knot, and I've used that knot for years with very little trouble. The Albright and improved Albright are also popular, and I've tried them and believe them to be superior to the uni-uni because the thicker line (the flouro) is only doubled in the knot, not tripled or quad as in the uni-uni. Makes for a more compact knot. Check this knot now and then to be sure it isn't getting beaten up by the rod guides. I use just shy of a rod length of leader so the knot doesn't go through the reel every cast. I've found Vanish to be inferior to other flouros and use Cabelas flouro line most of the time-it is much cheaper than the fluoros that are sold as leaders and I've had no trouble with it. If there is a problem with flouro it will most likely be in terminal knot strength/effectiveness. I am using Power Pro now, but many comment on it tending to fray, and I can see that issue now and then, mostly when fixing a backlash - yes I get one now and then. I have read that comments on Suffix braid that indicate it does not fray, so plan to try it soon in 30 pound test. If you get to be a fan of braid you will want to migrate to softer rod actions than what are ideal for mono-I use nothing that has the word "heavy" in its action description. Give braid a try-I think you will really like how it casts and it's super sensitivity.

Regarding: Soft rods will not drive the hook point and will often result in missing a bite or because of the delayed reaction, gut hooking the fish. The ability of a rod and line to set the hook depends on the stiffness of the whole system, not just the rod. Since you use a form of mono which is softer, more stretchy, than the almost zero stretch of braid, you may have a fairly stiff rod, but the line softens it up. I use a softer line and zero stretch line, so the overall systems may be a lot alike. And they both most likely work ok with the specific angler, which is another part of the total system. You have to consider the total system.

Regarding: I recommend switching either to a (stretchable) monofilament or to a medium action rod. Definitely-the rod must be chosen based on the line you prefer. Because I use almost only braid, my rods tend to be softer than if I were using mono, and I just do not have any problems with lures "ripping out of the fish's mouth." Softer rods are more comfortable to cast with, too (both spinning and casting), and this issue is the same whether you use braid or mono.

Regarding: I wonder why Shimano reels are made so differently? They seem good-to-go right out of the box. Attaboy RW, I was just coming to question why a $200 + reel needs a bunch of upgrades and you nailed it. Although, I do have reels I like better than Shimanos, that feel and perform as well as or better than. For example, IMHO the Daiwa/Cabelas Capricorn/Prodigy spinning reels beat the Stradics. I took my son's Stradics apart for cleaning/lubing last year and they sure look cheap on the inside, are hard to disassemble and reassemble, are no smoother, quieter, and have no better drag than the D/C C/P's, and my perference is for a handle that fits the hand better than that clunky chunk on the Stradic. And they are significantly less expensive.

"Braid Blade" scissors do a fine job, as will a really sharp knife if you cut against something. I have never found any tool with jaws/cutters that simply close on the braid to cut it cleanly. I use a flame to get the tips of the uni-uni leader to line knot to their shortest possible length (doesn't work well in the boat/wind, however).

Regarding: +1... Except for the weight between glass and graphite. When I did all the research for my CB rod, I found that the statement is not true. Powell for instance, there glass rods are the same or lighter than the graphite of the same specs. Other than that I agree. I went to their website, and sure enough, they say their glass rods are lighter than what appears to be equivalent graphite. Not sure how they do it, but until I weigh one, I stand corrected. Their rods look like a pretty good value considering how light they are. Sure wish they had blanks for sale to build one up.

Just received my BPS Christmas catalog and their Extremes and Bionic Blades are on sale: Extremes for 64.99 + shipping (XTR66MT or XTR70MT - I prefer longer rather than shorter, and suggest these medium actions for cranks-will cast more easily and comfortably than a heavy action and will be softer for the cranks) or Bionic Blades for $54.99 + shipping (BNC70MT). I don't think you can do better for a value rod than these. I've used both and they are good rods.

Check out Bass Pro Shops for their rods on sale- Bionic Blades and Extremes are very good and often at great prices. Especially the combos. Re the comment on glass lighter than equivalent graphite-doesn't sound logical when you consider that the modulus of elasticity of graphite is so much higher than glass. Seems impossible with guides, grips, and reel seats of the equivalent same weight that the blank could be lighter. Would like to see some data.

I assume you're talking bait casting. Don't believe the argument that the best crankbait rod is glass. Glass is much heavier and less sensitive than a rod with a somewhat equivalent action made of graphite. Graphite makes a great crankbait rod as long as it is the right action for the weight of the lures you are casting and is a fairly soft action for the reasons you mentioned. For fairly light lures I love the Loomis Crankbait CBR843C (completed rod number). I made mine and it is the lightest rod I've made to date, even against top of the line spinning rods of same 7 foot length. I made one for my son and he loves his, and uses it for jigging as well as cranks and comments on how nice it is to use a rod that sensitive. Keep the line you will be using in mind as well. I use braid, and the soft action of the 843 pairs well with braid, offering some forgivness to the non-stretch braid. My son uses mono and still loves the rod. With mono you might go up to the next model.

Loomis Loomis CBR843C is a wonderful rod for lures from 1/4-5/8 oz. It is a lighter action than most, but with the braid I like to fish with, it is ideal. One mistake many make is going with an action that is too heavy, thinking that a lighter action won't handle big fish. Big mistake. The lighter actions load well, similar to the "loading" talked about with fly rods, and are more comfortable and effective for casting than the heavier actions. And they will handle big fish just fine. My first fish on mine was a largemouth of about 6 pounds weight, and the rod handled it perfectly. It has also handled King Salmon up to about 15 pounds with no problems. It has the characteristics you want in a crankbait rod, it is fairly soft and a little slow compared to most graphite rods, and it is feather light, unlike glass. I have a glass crankbait rod, but it feels like a heavy club compared to the Loomis. I made mine, and one for my son. He loves his for casting and also uses it for jigging and comments on how much he enjoys such a sensitive rod (also unlike glass). He uses mono on his.