MickD

An experiment reported in In Fisherman about a year or two ago stated that red appeared black at depth, like the 12 feet that someone else noted. It did not say that red disappeared. If this is true, then red line will look red shallow and black at depth. Same for red hooks. I still believe that clear flouro is as good as it gets in clear water because its index of refraction is very close to that of water. Experiments on bass in tanks shows that they run into clear flouro line that is set up vertically in their tanks and they don't run into mono nearly as often. Indicating they cannot see the flouro. I don't know if red line was tested, but logic would indicate, based on the In Fisherman report, that it would be visible shallow. In water that is not clear the visibility of the line would be less an issue. If you go fishing with a Great Lakes bass guide and have braid on your outfit they will usually comment that you are hurting your chances as the bass will see the braid. Just another bit of opinion, but one from people who make their living by having fish not see their line.

If you can go $130 + shipping, check Cablelas for the Quantum Tour Edition PT in 7.1 ratio, usually priced $240.

As mentioned before, check the stickie posts at the beginning of the forum, and in my opinion: - Determine whether or not you want to buy prepared handles or turn your own cork. I highly recommend the latter because it gives you so much freedom to affect the shape and appearance (check out exotic burl-using regular color with simple burnt cork accents is very attractive). If you want to turn rings, a drill press and a little ingenuity mounting your rings onto 5/16 threaded rods will allow efficient and accurate turning. - I recommend you start with a couple rods with fairly inexpensive blanks and guide sets. I have not yet made a rod without learning something, and my first few rods left a lot to be desired. Check sites like Mudhole.com and jannsnetcraft.com + others for blank specials. Both have their own line of reasonable blanks. - I recommend you start with simple winding schemes. I think a lot of the rods being done today with complex winding schemes look too gaudy and lack class. Factories can do about anything with windings now, and the complex windings look like factory rods. IMHO - Check out http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2 for great info, and seriously consider getting the magazine offered there. It is a great source of information, every single issue. Check out the library articles at the web site for great info on guide sizing and placement. - I highly recommend a turning motor for drying your finish. I just could not get great looking finish until I got mine built and running. YOu can buy the motor and a chuck at eBay pretty reasonably and mount it yourself. Also build other supports-pretty easily. - If your motive is simply to save money, it won't work. You'll soon find yourself going up market with components and your rods will become more expensive than you're probably spending now. At the end of the model year, Bass Pro and Cabelas have some pretty good closeouts with really good $100 rods for about $70. You can, however, make the equivalent of the top of the line St Croix and Loomis rods for about 2/3 the cost, but that is still somewhat steep. I figure that I normally spend about $50 over the blank cost for my rods (using very high quality components), more if I use titanium framed guides.

I build all my rods with split grips and exotic burl cork: Casting: I like the feel of the butt grip on the second hand when doing two handed casting. I see no other functional difference other than, as previously mentioned by someone else, with exotic burl, which is about twice the density of regular cork, weight savings can be significant. And it doesn't take me that long to form the extra grip piece. I also like it that the area between the rear grips is good for adding my specs to the blank + the blank decal, if there is one. Spinning: Similar to casting: With spinning there is little need for cork directly behind the reel seat, so I use just a little to balance the looks. If I were to go all the way back to the butt with exotic burl it would get pretty heavy and costly. In front of the reel seat I have a very short section of cork which tapers rapidly to the front with an epoxy ramp, giving a very comfortable conical section that encourages the fingers to contact the epoxy/blank for max sensitivity, and appearance wise, balances well with the short section behind the reel seat. Great looking rods, minimum weight with exotic burl, function as well or better than non-split grips per above comments.

I would not use braid under about 30 # on a bait caster, I don't like the lighter lines' handling qualities as much as the 30+ line. At 30-40 it will handle a lot like 12-15 mono. Regarding overstressing the rods, I have used braid well over the rods' ratings and have had no trouble. I usually use a 20 pound leader which is still over my rods' ratings, and have really had some salmon going nuts on my outfits, and they just keep on ticking. If I were selling rods to beginning fishermen, I might agree with voiding the warranties. It's the fishermen that break rods, not the fish.

I think off-line has it right, the way I remember the In Fisherman article is that red doesn't disappear at depth, it just loses its red and looks black. If you say red doesn't make any difference to fish(in shallow enough water to stay red) then you are in essence saying no color makes any difference, and I know that is not true. In clear water in Canada, less than 10 foot depth, using spinner baits and other similar lures for pike, color makes a big difference. Some days red/white is best, some days firetiger, some days purple/white. One year it was clown Rapala Husky Jerks. Last year they were not good, but firetiger and green/black similar lures worked well. Last year it appeared that the walleyes really liked yellow and orange jigs better than anything. I'm talking only clear water.

I don't usually use color preservative, either. I like to make rods that are glossy finished and match the color of the rod with the thread. Usually that means not using color preservative. However, am making a matte gray rod now and when I wrap matte I like to contrast the windings-this rod is candy apple with gold trim. So I asked the color preservative question. Tom Kirkman at Rodbuilders.org says almost all the preservatives now are the same material, an acrylic I think he said. When I've used color preservative in the past I've always used 3 coats to be sure it worked. I had one once that left me with splotchy color. thanks for your responses, mick

What is your favorite brand of color preservative and why? thanks, Mick

If you have to glue it to keep it together then either the sizing is wrong, there is some contamination on the surfaces, or you are not putting it together right. I would not recommend gluing. Since you have a new rod, # 2 is probably not going to be an issue. On an older rod, clean the surfaces with a clean cloth. You cannot do anything about # 1 so forget it. On #3, slide the rod halves together, and as you firmly do the last push to seat the sections together, give them a little twist. If the guides don't line up, start over.

I just did some internet research to try to find out the relative strengths of the Albright, improved Albright (Alberto) and double uni knots when tying mono to braid and found this: Both knots less than 50% of line strength Both knots between 90 and 100% of line strength Braid is really bad for knot strength which is why the line is much stronger than stated pound test-it is the approx knot strenght that is on the box. What the truth is, I suppose, will depend on your specific lines and your specific techniques. Sounds like a good winter project. I'll be tying them both and testing. As stated before, my experience would lead me to believe the truth is closer to 90 for both knots than it is to 50.

I have used the double uni knot for years and have never had one slip. period. The Albright knot is more compact, so will go through the guides better. Even the modified Albright is more compact (with Albrights the large diameter line only gets doubled while in the uni-uni it gets wound over the small line 4 times. This can make quite a large knot if using heavy flouro). I used the Albright only a few times last season and had no trouble, will be trying it more this next year. I retie after a couple days of hard fishing to make sure the knot and line near it don't get too torn up going through the guides. I don't have any data on knot strength, but I use 40 pound braid and 20 pound fluoro and have not noticed any of my uni-uni's or Albrights showing any weakness whatsoever. Remember to spit on them as you are pulling them tight.

The best outfit for flippin might just be a long cane pole and the same length of strong line. Couldn't resist. Please forgive me.

Cabelas-Really a good company that stands behind their stuff, has customer reviews on a lot of their product, and they have a good credit card that allows me to accumulate Cabelas bucks (which allows me to get more good sporting goods in a sort of stealth fashion, if you know what I mean-out of sight of the spouse). Also, if you travel out of the country, their card has only the 1.5% Visa charge on converting other currencies-most cards have the 1.5 + a few % of their own. Jannsnetcraft.com- This is a company I have bought from since I was a kid. Lots of things you cannot find anywhere else + the usual stuff. They also are very good in standing behind their product, and they ship very quickly. If you need netmaking, net fixing, hooks, beads, swivels, molds, rodmaking stuff, they are very good.

Here is a bullet-proof source for guide sets at about half off retail-salvaged new guide sets from rods damaged in shipment: http://stores.ebay.com/Handler-Custom-Fishing-Rod-Supply Here are two sites for sizing, locating, and how to do the Fuji Concept System on spinning rods: http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/staticguide.html http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/newguide.html The biggest mistake I used to make, and expect that it is not that uncommon, is using guides that were larger than necessary. There is no reason for the four guides closest to the tip to be bigger than size 6 ring on fresh water casting or spinning rods, and as previous poster mentioned, get the transition from the butt guide to the tip guide sizes done in about 3 guides, fast, not progressive size change all the way to the tip. Go to the rodbuilding.org phorum and spend some time reading there before investing or starting your rod. Use A size thread and keep your rod finish on the lean side on fresh water rods and the lightest, smallest guides you can - for best rod sensitivity.

Forgot your question about if more guides are better-generally more guides are better in order to better feed the line and to load the rod properly. But. . .you can have too many and sensitivity suffers from the weight of the extra number of guides. With casting rods that have the guides on the top you will need more guides than spinning in order to keep the line off the rod when it is flexed. For optimum numbers of guides, check out top of the line rods like Loomis IMS and St Croix Avids/Legends. 7 foot spinning rods often have 8 while 7 foot casting rods often have 9. It can depend somewhat on the actions of the rods. You'll notice that cheaper rods have fewer guides than expensive rods-reason of course is to control cost and offer a rod in the price range that more can afford.

More expensive guides are generally harder and lighter than cheaper guides. I've never had guides groove from line, and I use braid all the time, but I have had tip tops groove. They are easy to replace, and top quality tip tops only cost about $6 in most bass rod sizes. Go to: http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php??,250628 for a chart that lists many guide ring hardnesses. I think Hardloy is Aluminum Oxide, but if I'm wrong someone will correct me. Are the more expensive guides worth it? That's up to the user to decide, but harder is better, lighter is better (use the smallest guides you can get away with for better rod sensitivity)-rodbuilder.org has some articles on that too- I use the finest of titanium frame guides (SIC or Nanolilte) on my top-level rod builds and lesser guides on builds done with lesser blanks, but always a SIC or Nanolite tip top. The only time I have ever had a guide failure was when I stepped on one in the boat, and I have had rods/guides from the cheapest to very expensive.

Getting back on topic, I used to have a few rear drag models, although only one was an old Symetre, and I never noticed any drag performance problems with them. I would expect a modern Symetre rear drag to perform fine compared to front, but I have no data. What the rear drags did do better than some front drag reels, they allowed for faster spool changes (button in center of spool would release it). Having said that, some front drag reels would do the same thing, although I don't think Symetres do. If a front drag model were lighter than a rear drag model, I would go with the front drag. Weight is more important than any performance/handling advantage I've ever found in rear drag. I would think that front drag is simpler to execute than rear, and simpler is better.

I have 4 of these reels, or a slightly newer version of them. One was a gift out of the blue from my dad, and at the time, it was state of the art for casting (narrow spool-free spool-with star drag), and I was in hog heaven. I bought another, and when my father died, I received his two. They are so special to me, but they certainly cannot compare performance-wise with even the cheapest reels today. I believe the reel shown in the pics has free spool and a star drag, as someone previously mentioned. I took one of the wide spool models to Canada to use for walleye trolling not long ago, just had to get these old gems back in the game, but gave up right away. The reel handle spans on these are so small compared to modern reels, I just couldn't get used to it. If anyone knows how to adapt modern handle spans to these reels, I'd like to know. The free spool release being in the center of the handle complicates the issue. I'm going to put one of them, along with an old casting lure, into a display box. They are pretty classy reels, and to me, they have a great history. Any good reel oil and grease will work fine with these reels-I've cleaned and lubed mine many times. Just don't expect too much from them-sort of like old cars-nostalgic, classy, and can get you from here to there, but not as well as the new ones.

The fundamental reason for using red line is that the color red only holds its color down to about 10 feet depth (ok, might be a little more or less). So the line companies came out with red line and advertised that it disappears at depth. The fact is that it does not disappear, but it looks black, which doesn't sound like all that much "stealth" to me. But I've not tried it, so really have no personal data. I think it is a marketing gimmick, however. It could possibly advantageous where you need a line to be visible above the water. Whether it casts and handles well and holds knots are all independent of the color and depend on the basic quality of the line.

You don't need a crankbait-specific SPINNING rod, you just need a 7 foot medium action fast tip spinning rod. The reason for all the crankbait-specific hype nowadays is because we went through a fad a few years ago when CASTING rods were all heavy action, and it didn't make sense for cranks. Just find a good MEDIUM POWER FAST TIP 7 foot spinning rod, the most that you can afford, look for sales, and it will do just fine. We sometimes get too tied up in hyper-matching or something like that and forget that they are just rods, not machines to get us to the moon. Buy a rod and go fishing.

I have no experience with the PT spinning reels, but I do have one of the ones that cost about $100, maybe a bit more, and it is my least favorite reel. It is not nearly as smooth as any of the other similarly priced or lower reels that I have experience with, like Symetres or Cabelas Prodigies (Daiwa). I seem to feel every tooth in the gear set on the Quantum and avoid it unless I don't have anything other to use. With a brand new linep of reels from Shimano, I would certainly take a serious look at them before buying.

I do most of my spinning with tubes, jigs, soft jerkbaits, and very small cranks, and while I've used both 6 1/2 and 7 foot spinning rods, I have grown to really like my 7 foot medium action fast tip rods. In searching for another blank to build from it is obvious that there are a lot more 6 1/2 foot blanks than 7's that are described as medium power, fast tip. It appears that I am swimming upstream while most everyone else is swimming down. Can you spinning experts tell me if I am missing something in favoring 7 over 6 1/2 for the type of fishing I described? Are there advantages to 6 1/2 that I've been missing? thanks, Mick

There was a recent post regarding this topic in which it was mentioned that cold temps could cause damage to the epoxy-I don't remember it talking about the graphite or glass being affected. I have stored probably 15-20 rods in my Michigan pole barn for many years and have had one case of handle cork loosening, no cases of any graphite or glass damage. I really don't think the epoxy failure was caused by cold, but have no way of really knowing. It was easily repaired. After reading the post I have brought my custom made rods in and hang them off the edge of my gun cabinet with a little hanging rack I made in about 10 minutes. Not taking any chances, but also it is nice just to see them as I pass by ("works of art," you know).

I always use a flouro leader a little shorter than the rod on braid-not sure it is necessary, and I doubt if it would be necessary flipping into thick stuff. Since I use 35-40 # braid, it will be about as big as 8-12 mono, and of course it is opaque. Guides I have been with won't use braid at all because they think it is too visible. Not sure of the truth. You need not worry about the "extra knot" if you use a uni-uni or Albright. The Albright is probably better since it is a more compact knot and will go through the guides better. I rety every couple days of very heavy fishing to make sure the line isn't getting weakened by constantly passing through the guides.

I agree that I have not found a flourocarbon line that I like for casting reels, but haven't yet tried the Yozuri Ultra Soft (actually a copolymer, not pure flouro) in 12 # that RW likes so much. All the flouros I've tried tend to spring off the spool too much. I used to use a copolymer in 14# that I liked, and lots of monos in the 12-14 # range cast well-they tend to be much softer than the flouros I've tried . . . but the best casting line I've ever used on a baitcaster was Fusion in 24 #-it had the best mix of diameter/body/stiffness/lack of stretch to cast and fish really well. Can't get it any more so am looking for a braid that matches its characteristics. (some braids are too soft IMHO for baitcasters, and while 35-40 Power Pro casts fairly well, I think it is too soft and tends to unravel when you pick at a backlash.) I always use a flouro leader a little shorter than the rod with braids/Fusion type lines.