Lane

Easy to understand links to the ongoing debate. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac051203.html Bad links removed. Fluke

A 16 year old boy asked the question. Please keep that in mind. I am a believer as well! However, it is up to his parents and church to instruct him about the bible,etc. That is how I raised my kids. I read the bible to them, and then we discussed it. As a parent, I would not want someone else or the government to do it for me. I heard enough about PETA to last a lifetime! Thanks, KD for posting! That was GREAT information!

I have not seen any creditable evidence to support that fish can rationalize suffering or pain. There are MANY documented cases of VERY LARGE bass being caught several times, and over a period of several years. Religion,politics and war should be left out of these debates.

Mike, you brought up a EXCELLENT point! Scientists must remain OBJECTIVE when engaging in scientific studies. Personal agendas, beliefs and attitudes must not be a factor. For example, I evaluate and use research conducted with Koi, catfish, etc. Or I use research conducted by zoologists, human researchers, etc. When I evaluate a document presented as scientific evidence, I FIRST review the references. If the document does not contain several references from many different sources, I usually find that the document is weak and lacks creditable scientific evidence! I find it offensive for Jim to use parts of the bible, God, Jesus,etc, in this discussion. I read the bible as well, ALL OF IT. I would NEVER bring my personal faith, quote scripture, or use bring biblical theology into a debate like this. I find it MORE disturbing that he was a FEDERAL employee conducting town hall meetings. Mike are you a FLORIDA GATOR that owns a GAMBLER?????? I am married to a Gator, and he is a brilliant scientist :)

Jim, Maybe you should do a bit more homework on the BBC. They are a liberal and bias media wheel, with MANY ties to VARIOUS animal rights organizations. They are tied to the The European Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To Animals. The documents that you posted do not contain scientific evidence! You know the old saying money talks and BS walks. Tournament fishing, recreational angling,etc, brings way too much revenue for lawmakers to pass legislation to impose major restrictions or ban activities that generate TAX dollars. Don't forget that TAX dollars collected from recreational activities paid YOUR salary, and your federal pension. It is NOT the animal rights groups that anglers should be concerned about, but a few scientists that have worked their way into federal positions. I have files and files on these people, and HARD EVIDENCE that expose their hidden agenda. Their studies are flawed and based on JUNK SCIENCE. I may be new to this forum, but not to the science involved in within the industry. On what, "scientific evidences", do you state that there is, "a need for drastic changes in the conduct of tournaments"? I REALLY want to see it! I do believe that tournament care and procedures could use improvement, but there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support DRASTIC changes. A few ill advised mistakes on the part of one or two tournament trails that resulted in a high mortality does NOT constitute DRASTIC measures, or at least not at this time. In fact a BASS regional tournament was held a few days latter, and the mortality was LOW for that event. The bass population will be just fine.

Jim, with all due respect, the document that you presented as evidence that bass "feel pain", in the same respect as higher organisims is GARBAGE!!!!! First off, even annelids (earthworms) respond to stimulus. They do not have brains. Response to stimulus is an autonomic response! Second, the Webster's dictionary describes pain as: 1. physical or mental SUFFERING caused by injury, disease, tribulation, etc. Third, there has been no scientific evidence provided to backup the THEORY that fish possess the ability to rationalize pain as in terms of an EMOTIONAL response to SUFFERING. Fourth, I am a UNT grad, and Dr. Moorman is a HIGHLY respected zoologist. His SCIENTIFIC evidence has been accepted by his peers in the scientific community and his papers published. Futhermore, scientific evidence presented by other NOTED scientists collaborate his findings. Fifth, the document that you presented only contains CRUDE diagrams, no biopsied slides or photos of the cells, or brain tissue were presented as evidence to backup the THEORY! Scientific method must be used in order to be called SCIENTIFIC! As a scientist, I fail to see any proof that scientific method has been used to prove the theory that fish, "feel pain" or can rationalize pain. I do have three of questions for you. First, what is your agenda? From what I can deduct, you are AGAINST tournament angling. Second, were you a state or federal employee? You have mentioned, "Animal Rights" and "PETA" in several posts. What is your POINT???? You have a right to your opinions, as long as they are not presented as SCIENTIFIC FACTS. Especially when relating to a 16 year old boy's question.

Yes, it was great seeing a 10 year old collect a $1,500 check for the big bass and take home a nice trophy. His dad told me that he had several trophies from bass tournaments at home! Just goes to show you are never too young.

Two way street, means rewards for your hard work! Here is a for instance. At this years ICAST, the LARGEST retail chain in the country came to our booth early the last day. My husband was not in the booth at the time, and I had not yet arrived. Our pro staff talked with the buyer for a few minutes, recommended some products, then when my husband arrived introduced my husband to the buyer. No big name, but he believes in our products and is a self confident man! His bonus: AN ALL expense paid 7 day guided fishing trip to Alaska next year! We knew that his dream was to go to Alaska and fish! Another example. We were approached early this summer by a college team for product sponsorship. I was soo impressed by this team, that we sent them a check for $250 in addition to the product, so that they had a little spending money for the BASS College Smashout. We also found them another sponsor willing to donate to the cause. Now we are a smaller company, but a stable one. My husband has been in the business for 24 years, and has owned his own company for 16 years. We have LOTS of connections, and that is important in this industry. Kids should start out young. I watched a 10 year old kid weigh in a 11lb lunker this summer. We talked to him after the weigh in and his father told us that our products had helped his son. It was such a great feeling, we gave that boy free product and a shirt. I told him that he definately has a future in the industry. If fishing is your PASSION, and you like people, go out and promote the products that you believe in no matter how young or old you are!!!!!!! We followed our passion, and we doing pretty darned good! LIVE THE DREAM!

Bass LOVE Dragonflies!!!!!!! I was visiting Doug Hannon (The Bass Professor) a few years ago, and watched the BIG bass in his pond HAMMER one dragonfly after another. It was a sight to see!!!!! This is the time of year for dragonflies and grasshoppers! GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!

Sorry, for the typos in the post!!!!!! Too many interuptions!!!!!!

Reel Lady has given some of the best advise for sponsorship that I have read! As a woman, and co-owner of a sportfishing company, I want to add to that. Marcia is right, you need to USE and be a FIRM believer in the product(s), before you approach a company for ANY level of sponsorship. As a potential sponsor, I like to see well written resumes, and prefer to recieve them via e-mail. That is only the first step! You need to follow up the resume with a phone call to the potential sponsor. I interview ALL potential candidates via telephone, and depending on the level of sponsorship, I require an IN PERSON meeting. Confidence in yourself and your abilities are very important. You should also be interviewing the companies that you want sponsorship from. Sponsorship is a TWO WAY STREET! I believe that marketing yourself to smaller companies can further your career, so NEVER count them out. For instance, on our pro-staff page we market YOU! We post your picture and bio! In addition we pick two pro staff to go to ICAST every year in Vegas. Our saltwater pro staff walked away this year with FOUR BIG sponsors. They are NOT big names and may never be, but they have done a EXCELLENT JOB of marketing our products. Remember TWO WAY STREET!!!!!!! We are not looking for big names, since both of our top guns are LEGENDS that been inducted into the Freshwater Hall of Fame. Both men either have or have had their own T.V shows, written books, etc. Now for the women! These are exciting times for you! My husband (owner of the company) tells me that there is NOTHING more SEXY than a pretty, smart woman that LOVES TO FISH and enjoy the outdoors. Marcia has that covered, and I can tell from reading her resume that she is one SHARP LADY! If you have the looks, USE IT!!!!!! I fully expect to see a WBT angler featured as a Playmate in Playboy in the very NEAR future. Even if you don't have great looks, women are very appealing to sponsors. More women are starting to purchase tackle, boats, etc. Now for the kids! Kids can be sponsored as well! Our sister company will launch a new website, were kids will have their own pro staff page! You are the future of this sport! So sharpen your pencils and start writting those resumes!!!!!!!! Good Luck to All of You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to hear from Pond-Pro. What did you tell your friend at school? Were you able to give him an intelligent opinion based upon available facts? What was his reaction? Have you ever taken any of your friends fishing with you? Your generation is the future for this sport! :)

It is important to remember that anglers ALREADY support federal funding through the Breaux/Wallop Act of 1984 that imposes a 10% FEDERAL tax on all boat fuel, electric motors, tackle boxes and related items. This money is distributed to the states through the Sportfish Restoration. There is NO evidence that Catch and Release is not working. In fact there is plenty of data to suggest that is is working! Wisconsin is a state that issues permits to tournament organizations, but that has not really worked very well. What does work when it comes to tournament mortality are stiff penalties for dead fish brought to the scales! When dead fish penalties mean the difference between a check, boat, etc, anglers start to pay attention to the handling and care of the bass. Most of the smaller regional or national trails are doing a great job in this department, and there are alot more anglers that fish the smaller trails than the big ones. There is NO scientific evidence to support federal impact fees for tournament anglers because of mortality, that may or may not occur. I expect to see livewell technology improve in the near future that will reduce mortality even further. Boat manufactures will install the new technology in their livewells. We have come a LONG way since the 70's and to penalize anglers with more fees is just plain STUPID. Many companies like mine in the sportfishing industry provide states with additional funding and resources in order to further conservation and protect the sportfishing industry. Anglers need to protect their rights just like the NRA protects gun owners and hunting. Animal rights activists have fought and failed against the POWERFUL NRA. Why? because there is NO PROOF to back up their claims, and their scientists have failed to prove otherwise. We need to give this animal pain issue a rest! My kids felt plenty of pain when I spanked them. Did they suffer, yes! Did it cause long terms effects, yes. They have all grown up to be responsible ADULTS that LOVE to fish, because moma took them fishing when they were KIDS! For anglers wanting to protect their rights to fish, check out the National Assembly of Sportsmen's Caucuse's. You can see just how much FEDERAL money is collected from sportfishing sales in YOUR state. They are working in your behalf!

I have copies of the studies you refer to as, "recent and disturbing studies". Maybe I sould rephrase that to say, "The STUDY". Of course there have been MANY delayed mortality studies conducted, starting back in the 80's. I guess if your agenda is to regulate tournament angling by charging, "Impact Fees" so that you can line your pocket with federal grant money, then you need to make sure that your studies reflect high mortality rates. The only studies that I consider VALID, are the various studies that have been conducted state or private biologists. States can set creel limits or slot limits to offset any impact to the fishery. I am FIRMLY against federal IMPACT fees for tournament anglers. BTW, most of the delayed mortality studies that were conducted back in the late 80's showed mortality rates around 10% or less. :) I have found that most tournament anglers are honest, and care about the fishery. Of course there are events that have resulted in higher mortality, and give tournament angling a black eye. That is not the norm. Summer mortality rates CAN be high, but there is not enough collaborating research or data to support imposing restrictions. Like I mentioned in the previous e-mail, I have a two year study conducted by the Kansas DNR that shows combined TOTAL mortality for 99 and 01 to be 10.1%. I would be happy to send it to anyone who wants to review it. More studies are due to be conducted in the near future, by state biologists that have nothing to gain from the results. Get the picture yet?????? This bassresource site has the absolute best information on everything anyone would want to know about bass in general, and Glenn has published great information from DIFFERENT sources! In fact, I am going to start directing anglers that contact me to this site!

I guess my question would be, what do you consider proper handling? Yes, only God can save a fish that has been mishandled, subjected to EXTREME heat, etc. I would be more than happy to send you a delayed mortality study funded by federal grants that had a combined mortality of 10.1% over a two year period. I would consider that an acceptable and low percentage. There is no reason why delayed mortality levels cannot be 10% or under. I addressed the La Crosse mortality in a previous thread, but high temperatures is what caused mortality in both the smallmouth and largemouth bass. Handling was NOT a factor, regardless of how anyone wants to spin it. Yes, starfish and amoeba respond to stimulus.

I will try and explain this the best that I can. Both humans and fish have adrenal glands, that release hormones. These hormones have very different classifications and functions. Anabolic steroids (hormones) are released into the bloodstream to convert food into living tissue. Most of us are aware that anabolic steroids are used by athletes to build muscle and enhance performance. The hormones responsible for the, "flight or fight" response are catabolic steroids. Catabolic steroids are called cortisols, and are responsible for breaking down tissue (protein) and converting the protein or tissue into glucose. Glucose is quickly utilized during the, "flight or fight response". Cortisols are also responsible for suppressing the auto immune response. If you have ever been treated for a severe allergic reaction or inflammation then you were probably given a corisol shot or a staggered oral dosage of cortisol. Steroids by nature must be removed by the liver, and that takes time. In fish this can and DOES become a deadly waiting game. If cortisol levels continue to elevate, or remain elevated, their immune system shuts down. This process is one of the key factors in delayed mortality. If the immune system of the fish shuts down, they become vunerable to opportunistic infections that result in mortality. This is not just in fish. In humans that are being treated for an inflammatory infection, they are ALWAYS given antibiotics while on cortisol therapy. We can prevent delayed mortality due to stress, elevated cortisol levels, etc, by learning and practicing GOOD Catch and Release methods. It has now been proven that elevated cortisol levels in humans contribute to disease and death. Drug companies are now introducing new cortisol lowering medications. Fish do feel pain, but it is not the same pain that is percieved by humans. In fact physical pain is NOT ALWAYS a BAD thing. That is another subject! Fishing, including tournament fishing can be a ethical and a necessary use of the resource in the terms of management. There is nothing wrong with fishing for dinner on occasion. Just be sure and check with your state for any consumption advisories or water quality issues, and only keep the smaller ones for the dinner table.

:-[ Wow! Raul, you really did lose some valuable fish! That was an impressive collection of tropical fish. My husband still talks about the his Wattley Discus tank that Mr. Wattley donated to him for research when he was lead researcher for an aquarium laboratory. I agree, fish should not be transfered from one body of water to another, especially wild fish. I believe that the LMBV originally was introduced through the escape of tropical fish, such as guppies from the farms in Florida. We will probably never know for SURE, but that virus is VERY close to the ranavirus found in asian guppies.

The primary food source for both bass fry and baitfish fry is the freshwater zooplankton Daphnia. There are many species of Daphnia and some are invasive. Daphnia are high in vitamin A which is needed for tissue formation, Vitamin B for appetite and cells, and Vitamin C for developing the immune system. Daphnia are visable to the naked eye, and can be seen in clear water through a glass. The Daphnia feed on blue/green algal cells. During warmer months when the water temps are warmer, both the blue/green algae and the Daphnia can be found in abundance. I am not aware of any recorded die off due to warmer water. There are several reports of significant decreases in the number of Daphnia after the application of herbicides to control vegetation. I am not a proponent of herbicides due to the potential hazards to humans and mortality to fish. Grass Carp can be sterilized and placed in lakes,etc, to control vegetation and will die when the food source is exhausted. I love to watch the baby fry from the Share A Lunker program here in Texas gobble up the enriched Daphnia in their aquariums, and no I don't work at the hatchery. I just consult with the biologists in charge of the program. But I do have a couple of photos of the bass fry eating the Daphnia!

Bassangler you are right we DO have more of a responsibility to educate anglers with our knowledge and expertise. As I mentioned in the previous e-mail I own and operate a PRIVATE laboratory that manufactures products for the fishing industry. Sharing information in the scientific community is critical to our efforts, and that includes sharing information with various DNR agencies. I can assure you that taking care of bass is not rocket science, but it does require dedication on the angler's part. I do speak at both local and regional bass clubs and events on the basics of bass care, and even have printed material available to the various clubs and organizations. We are very strict with the tournaments that we sponsor and work with. We believe in GRASSROOT education. Tournament trails must implement a TIMED weigh in that can be accomplished in 10 minutes or less total time per angler. The timing starts when the angler reaches the first staging tank all the way through to the final release tank or boat. Release boats cannot stock over 1lb of fish per gallon and must add a component to remove ammonia when stocking densities reach that level. Most of the grassroot trails welcome our help. Please keep in mind that the larger trails such as FLW have their own staff, etc. The smaller trails are much easier to work with one on one and educate. Stiff penalties DO WORK, we can vouch for that. When tourament organizers impose stiff penalties for dead or DYING bass anglers pay attention. One of the trails that we work with DQ anglers if their livewell temperatures register OVER 76F, and livewells are randomly checked with temp probes. That is an extreme measure, but every angler has some form of ice in his boat and that is a good thing. The Wisconsin DNR Fisheries director did return my phone call, and the conversation was LONG. He was not arrogant, and I really felt sorry for him and the situation at the end of the conversation. I just want to make two points in reference to the conversation. Livewell temps were checked by the Wisconsin DNR and several of the livewell temps registered between 83F up to a whopping 94F. That my friend should NEVER HAPPEN! Anglers were required to walk their fish to the release boat after weigh in and several stopped along the way to visit with their buddies, meanwhile the bass were holding their breath. Please keep in mind that the mortality rates on the smallmouth bass were MUCH HIGHER than the largemouth. To date the iridovirus family has not been found to cause mortality in smallmouth bass. The DNR did not have the results from the PCR DNA test that was used on the dead largemouth bass, but they were due back today. The US Fish and Wildlife Service has possession of the dead bass and is the agency performing the LMBV PCR test. Their lab is located in La Crosse. As far as mutations go, yes there are several genotypes of the virus and some are more virulent than others. But when temps are kept under 76F, they do not replicate. When puppies are born with the DEADLY Herpes virus they are placed in an incubator with temps ranging between 86F and 90F. The replication of the virus is halted and antibodies are developed by the immune system. Human vaccines for the various viruses stimulate antibody production and that is why we do not come down with symptoms of the disease. Virology 101 here. We possess the antibodies to recognize and fight off repeated exposures. Mother nature does a great job of helping the fish fight infections, but man can either help or hinder that process. Getting the picture? The DNR agencies have their hands tied when it comes to regulations. They have lawmakers to answer to. It is in ALL of our best interests to learn from these mistakes and do everything we can to prevent a reoccurance. IT CAN BE DONE! We can't change the past but we can have a positive influence in the future.

I just registered on this forum to address the issues of tourament fishing, LMBV, delayed mortality and fish disease in general. I am a microbiologist and work in the fishing industry. Some of the readers may figure out who I am and what company I am associated with. There is a real need for scientists like myself to educate both the angling and non angling public with the most accurate information available. In response to the LMBV virus, what we do know is that the virus replicates at temperatures over 80F. Studies have shown that holding infected bass at 76F or below halt the replication of the LMBV (ranavirus). Studies have also shown that bass do develop antibodies to fight the virus. Our studies have shown that the spread of various pathogens can be significantly reduced in the livewell with the use of 3% hydrogen peroxide. The combination of cooler livewell temperatures and 3% hydrogen peroxide will reduce the spread of pathogens including the LMBV. In my professional opnion, todays livewells are not adequate for holding numbers of gamefish. Livewell technology is still an evolving science, and more research is needed. Larger gamefish do suffer in the current livewells. Anglers will need to make some hard choices about space, etc. Larger tournaments are hard to operate during the dog days of summer. I would like to see smaller tournaments that are WELL staffed during the summer months. Tournament organizers should also be trained in basic bass biology. For instance if a bass is struggling and the gills are pink instead of red then they should immediately be removed. They are beyond help and will die. The tournament organizers and staff are the paramedics need to be able to handle a triage situation with the bass. One member of the staff should be trained in survival techniques,etc. ALL tournament anglers should be able to quickly and effectively decompress or "fizz" bass. It can be a valuable survival technique. Tournaments can should exsist in my opnion, but if the objective is to release the fish to live on then caring for the fish should be a priority and become a habit. Tournament organizers cannot save fish that have been subjected to improper landing, handling and livewell conditions. It is the responsibility of the angler to make sure that he is educated and puts his knowledge into practice. Anglers should also QUESTION those of us in the industry that support live release with products,etc. Statements and products should be able to be backed up with scientific data. Last but not least, anglers do need to work with the various DNR agencies. I have found most biologists more than HAPPY to answer questions, after all your tax dollar is paying their salaries! In otherwords that is part of their job. Hopefully, tragic tournament related fish kills will be a thing of the past. It will take all of us who love the resource and the sport to take the effort to make a difference. It starts with you!