Jim Drinkwater

Oh this has been fun. A couple more that I didn't see mentioned would be the French Vie Vief minnow and the Bill Plumber Frog. Funny thing is both of these have morphed into present day baits that are very productive. I agree that the Banjo minnow isn't a gimick bait and still use them for certain things but then again Wayne Hockmeyer wasn't trying to build a gimmick he set out to build a better Mann's Sharow or at least a bait that would do the things a shadow could do only better. It was fun watching some of the evolution of the Banjo. What was the name of those worms that would coil and uncoil? Those were kind of out there to me.

Those of you that have attended any bass seminars know flat out that with touring Pros they will do their damnedest to catch fish on a sponsors bait but will use any thing in the boat that will keep their weight up and keep their sponsors name in the public eye and the tourney sponsors name on a nice check after the weigh in. We had a chance the fall before last to follow the MLF folks on local waters up here in Maine and yes it became a dink fest on waters where generally it is going to take 18-20+ pounds in a one day 5 fish format. A couple of the guys did swing for the fence and were so close to having it figured out that it could have changed dramatically but in the end the guys fishing for numbers prevailed. I will give the Ned a go this summer just for those days when getting a limit can be a big issue. Once one has a limit they can go and try to up grade. But again those tourneys will be of standard 5 fish format. Looks to me like another tool.

I love throwing big lipless cranks. My go to bait is a 1.25 ounce Gaggs Bait Bunker. I also use the 3/4 and 1 oz. Bill Lewis Rattle traps and the 1 oz. Gaggs. I have in my lipless box a handful of the Super Mag traps at I believe 1.5 or even 1.75 oz. but on that I am not sure the exact weight. There are also some big lipless baits available in the BPS salt water catalogs and they look great but I have yet to do a great deal with them but that could be because there is always a 1.25 ounce Gaggs on one of my sticks. Yes they can be used to get down deeper and pounding rocks but I will use them even in water as shallow as 4 or 5 feet. If it is shallow I just make damned sure I am ready and when it hits the water I am cranking with the rod held well up. My favorite rig for this is a 7-6 heavy cranking stick and an Ambassadeur reel with 6.3 gear ratio. This set up is spooled with 65 pound Gorilla braid or 40-50 pound Power Pro. I know this all sounds like over kill but if you are screeching one of these big baits along and get smashed by a 5-6 pound or more bass you want a rod, reel and line set up that can take the shock, the hook set and then the constant heavy pressure to keep the fish down and coming your way to avoid them getting up and having a chance to shake the hooks. It isn't a bait or a technique for every one because throwing that set up for a good part of the day when they are on it can wear you out but man can it produce under the right conditions on both LM and SM.

There are a couple other forums that might offer you a shot at a Pats. You could try the swimnait section under freshwater fishing on New England Fishing. Or on Face Book the Swimbait New England site or the Swimbait underground. But most likely as suggested try getting hold of the maker. They do pop up but they don't sit around for long. Good luck.

I still use pork trailers at times and still have a pretty good supply but having the information that started this thread I may very well go to a local slaughter house and give this a try. One of the things I would make other than the obvious frog trailers is going to be my own version of a pork o. I loved those things, caught a number of very good fish on them. Saddly not having them and their special round bend weedless hooks has made fishing some areas not as much fun as it once was. So I can always make my own Pork O's but would kill to get a supply of those big round bend weedless hooks, any ideas oh assembled host of fishing experts.

Has any one tried this along the outside of deep pad edges, next to blow downs or along docks? It would almost seem that a bait just hanging near such cover might be quite productive if done right. I totaly get the idea of using this on flats with submerged weed and already have a place in mind to try it out in a tourney this summer. But I'm always looking for an edge around cover. It would certainly be some thing different than a jig or senko type bait sinking down. Any thoughts on this? Crestliner you seem to have thought this out quite a bit, what say ye?

dcales, interesting question. I just looked at some swinging jigs I have like you mention. Might be interesting but I think the ones I have are too heavy and the hook is to heavy to make it work. Guess I could hook one up and try it in the sink as I have tried other baits. I will post the results if I do.

Oh Jake, Jake, Jake I applaud you efforts to satisfy the bait monkey but I fear it is a little like an alcoholic buying a beer to satisfy his addiction. You might want to look at a Mann's minus 1. They are short and compact and mine wake well. Also in bigger baits I have a phobia about feeding pike and pickerel expensive baits so I will throw an Arbogast version AC Plug which you can get for short money and in 7.5, 9.5 and 12 inch. They wake well and you can get them on E-bay cheap cheap cheap. Of course the Slammers and the Pats Perch are great too. TW is also now selling the Wooden Baits Rat that really works well but you are getting up there in price too but they are well made and are real fish magnets.

Another consideration and one I have had good success with would be the Stamina or Lure Parts On Line Barbarian Hook bullet nose jig. I like the hooks and I believe you can get the jigs down to 1/8 ounce. The price is good and the jigs are tough.

I nteresting, maybe it is where you are getting your grubs from, I use quite a few and not usually a problem.

If I was any more chilled I would have to be looking at the sod from the wrong side. In the mean time I ordered a couple rats. Damned bait monkey.

Guess I missed Noah's post and now it is gone. And Mark was much more kind than I would have been. This whole rat thing and the connected swimbait venue is just nothing more than another way one can catch bass and if done right at the right time can produce very good bass. But has already been noted by Mooster47 and myself one is probably going to be looking at a new rod or rods if they seriously want to get into rat fishing. Many of us probably already have flipping sticks that will handle the smaller or lighter SPROS and that is one of the benefits those baits bring to the game, but as with swimbaiits if you get seriously bitten by the rat bug it will not be long before you will want to fish the bigger heavier baits and then you are talking getting some sticks meant for the purpose. A good fishing friend got me into this and it can be quite addictive. I have gone from the flipping stic kwhich will handle this to getting a Bulldawg rod to getting an Okuma Citrix really heavy duty stick. The Okuma will handle 6 ounce baits and is just shy of 8 feet long and it makes throwing those big heavy baits much more doable. My old shoulders and arms still complain about a full day of it but it can be done. There is some thing really fun about fishing these baits at night or walking/waking one past a dock or blow down and seeing a big bass explode on it, I invite any one to give it a try. Think of it as Jitterbug fishing on steroids.

Thanks deep. I did indeed just do a quick E-bay search.And yes I think I did know some thing about Rago and a patent.I should have picked up on the Matts price, my mistake.

Interesting looking lure and I like the color too. Not sure I have ever looked at them, may have to give them a try, thanks.

The whole rat bait thing is quite interesting. As an off shoot of the whole swimbait craze rat style baits have shown that they do indeed catch a lot of bass and large ones under a number of conditions. The interesting thing about them though is the great ranges in size, price and quality that are out there. The SPRO alone is available in 3 different sizes, a number of different colors and ranges in price from around 23 to 30 dollars, After the SPROS which are generally well made and equipped with good hooks and that range from less than an ounce to I think 2.5 ounces and length from 6 to almost 10 inces if you include the tail. One can find other rats for as little as 15 bucks on E-bay but I have no idea of the quality,weight or durability of finish. Or one might go with a Morning wood rat for75 + dollars, a Wooden Baits rat for 85.00 or even a Matt Lures rat for 180 bucks. I am going with a SPRO and maybe a wooden lures rat for this coming year. Both fish well and are well made. One other consideration will have to be having a rod that can throw the rats. For the rats in sizes that seem to be fish producers you are going to be talking any where from about 2 ounces with the SPRO's to between 4 and 5 ounces for some of the others.The whole rat thing is fun especially if you like to have bass bust the surface but it can be addictive as all get out as it already has been for me with conventional swimbaits.

I am one of those that fishes lipless baits quite a bit under certain circumstances and like many on here already I too fish the Bill Lewis baits but mostly the 3/4 and 1 ounce sizes. A couple others lipless ones that I don't think have been mentioned but that do catch fish would be the Bomber in I think 5/8 ounce. An inexpensive bait with a good sound to it and not so painful if you are feeding a lot of them to toothy critters. The other is the GAGs bait Bunker. This is a larger and heavier bait but very productive, at 1.25 ounce it will throw a mile and is some ole tough but it is more money at about 9 bucks a pop but I keep 5 or 6 on hand at all times.

This is probably one of those techniques that has a time and place it really would fit. I have thought about doing this for some time and just never have gotten around to it. Now it is on my up comming list of things to at least try this next season. I bet a whacky rigged 5 inch mag finesse worm would work well too.