Tennessee Boy

Dr. Jones' learning experiments tested bass in groups of six and I don't think he says much about the differences in individual fish. As @Team9nine has already mentioned in this thread, some research on recapture rates have found large differences in the number of times individual fish are caught in a season. Is this because they are dumb or just more aggressive? Someone smarter than me will have to answer that.

It's very important to remember that scientific experiments are conducted to prove a hypothesis. I think all Jones was trying to prove was that a bass is capable of learning to recognize a fishing lure and that it can change their behavior for two months or longer. My personal conclusion from reading his book is that he proved his point and it's something I should keep in mind as a fisherman. I assume that fish in the wild have the same learning capacity as fish in the lab. It seems reasonable to expect that the complex world that fish experience in the wild would make learning more difficult. Dr Jones exposed fish to a single lure for five minutes, I would assume that some fish on some lakes might get much more exposure to lures over a lifetime and this might improve their chances of learning to recognize lures. Exactly how his research translate to the real world and if and how we should change our fishing because of it is a judgement we all have to make. To me it's all just more valuable information to consider as I pursue these fascinating creatures that I've spent so much of my life trying to understand. I've really enjoyed reading everyone else's thoughts on this research. This is good stuff.

Now I don't see any possible way that studying epistemology can help you catch more fish. Empiricism....maybe if you believe in my time on the water theory. ?

There has been a ton of research on learning in Bass and other species in addition to Dr Jones work. Everything I've read suggest fish can learn to avoid a hook to some degree. None of it suggest they become uncatchable. Fish react, they don't reason and a fish may learn to react with fear to a lure to some small degree. That doesn't make them uncatchable, it just makes them a little harder to catch. I went to the Cheesecake Factory last Saturday. Even though I was stuffed I couldn't resist getting a big piece of cheesecake for dessert. I was miserable for the next 10 hours and didn't go to sleep until 4:00AM. I learned my lesson and will never do it again....and I say this every time I go to the Cheesecake Factory. I repeat the same mistakes and I like to think I'm smarter than most bass. The desire to eat is hard to overcome.

NO ONE IS SAYING DON'T LOOK AT A MAP BEFORE YOU GO FISHING!!!! I can say that if you can't tell when you've got a fish on the line, no amount of time studying a map is "gonna help ya!" but I'm sure no one is implying otherwise. I keep my maps on my iPad and look at them constantly even if I'm not planning a fishing trip. In the 90s I took a laptop out on the lake, hooked it up to my sonar and GPS and map the structure myself. I agree maps are a great tool and can save you valuable time on the water. I also know a guy who has fished out of the same marina 2-3 times a week for 20 years who doesn't need a map because it's in his head. Over time he has gained a strong understanding of the food sources and seasonal patterns. There are things that you need to know to get to the next level, that is certain. We can all improve our fishing by improving our knowledge of the sport. There are also things that only time on the water can do for you and I think that aspect of fishing is often undervalued. Basic fishing skills, casting, knowing what your lure is doing, feeling the bite, these are critical and often overlooked. Is it that hard to understand what I'm trying to say?

Here the deal for me when it comes to the importance of spending time on the water. I'm all for hitting the water with as much information as you can. Finding a good working pattern is about solving a puzzle. This takes time. Anything you can do to help solve the puzzle before you hit the water reduces the time it takes to solve the puzzle and that's obviously a good thing. The mistake I think many people make is they think the reason they can't catch fish is because they lack the knowledge necessary to catch fish. Now this certainly could be the case. If you are fishing a bare hook in 60ft of water, then no amount of time on the water is going to help until you realize you are doing it all wrong. What I'm saying is that information is no substitute for time on the water. I see questions on this forum like "What's better a worm or a lizard?" You can ask this question and you will get lots of answers. I'm sure you can find plenty of articles that will suggest when to fish a worm and when to fish a lizard. I think this question is best answered by the fish. When people ask questions like this they are trying to solve a problem with information that should be solved with time on the water. The thing is you need basic fishing skills to get the answers from the fish. The better you are at fishing a t-rig, the faster you can determine if the fish prefer a worm or a lizard on a particular day. So how do you get better at fishing a t-rig? It might help some to read an article on t-rig fishing but that's still no substitute for time on the water perfecting the skills that make you a good t-rig fisherman.

Your last post was very well stated. I find it interesting your comments above and the anglers you choose. Would it be fair to say the Roland and Clunn relied more on point 2 skills and Brauer and Vandam more on point 1?

I'm glad we agree ?. @Catt I think your earlier K.I.S.S. comment was about as spot on as you can get. Great discussion. Thanks.

@Catt I think we agree but I'm going to argue with you just for the fun of it. ? When I think about the difference between the best fishermen and myself, I think about Jason Lambert's 100 lb FLW win on Kentucky Lake in May. This was on my favorite lake so I payed close attention. What did Jason know? He knew to fish ledges on Kentucky Lake....Duh He caught his fish on the most obvious spots on the map. These were major community holes. Any serious bass fisherman who has a basic understanding of what structure is would want to fish these spots. His knowledge of the lake was no better than mine or any serious angler. I carefully watched all of the live coverage and the show he did the day after the tournament. I was very impress with how well he could read his electronics. I could tell that boat position was much more important to him than it typically is to me. Other than those two things, I don't know that he does anything different from what I do when fishing ledges on Kentucky Lake. He caught large fish quickly on community holes using common lures that are very popular on the lake. Maybe he has a secret that he's not telling but I'm not convinced that his superiority is in his knowledge of fishing, bass behavior, or the lake. One thing I am sure of, he is superior. When we hit the water, I think most of us view it as a process of solving a puzzle, trying to figure out the right pattern to maximize our chances. This is a mental challenge but it is made possible by our ability to catch fish. Imagine a two man tournament between a fishery biologist who is recognized for his expertise on largemouth bass but has never been fishing a day in his life and a guy who can't read but has fished 200 days a year for most of his life. Who would you pick to win? Yes, I think you're assessment is accurate. I don't think anyone would argue that it's purely one or the other. THANKS FOR STARTING A VERY INTERESTING THREAD!

I'm certainly not suggesting that all it takes is time on the water and that knowledge plays no role in success. Reading an article in Bassmaster on a technique you've never used and then using it on Saturday, then doing the same thing with a different technique the next Saturday is not the key to success IMO. At least it didn't work for me 30 years ago when I tried it. I completely agree but how well do you think you can understand the body of water, the food source, and how they relate without spending time on the water. Do you think you can learn this from reading? I'm eager to learn new things, but to be honest I thought I knew a lot when I was young and the main thing I have learned since is how little I know. If someone can tell me how to know where to fish and what to throw before I even hit the water I'm open to it. What I've found in real life it there are plenty of people that will tell you where/how to fish but you got to get out there and figure it out for yourself. You can learn a lot from reading books and from this forum but the best lessons are taught by the fish themselves. Amen, what you are talking about is the basics. That putting the lure where it needs to be along with developing that sense of knowing when you get that subtle bite is the blocking and tackling of fishing. The industry will tell you can master these by buying the right equipment. I think the key is time on the water (or backyard if necessary).

I couldn't agree more! I intentionally limit the techniques I use in my fishing because I don't have time to perfect more techniques. I'm looking forward to expanding my techniques when I retire, knowing I'll be able to put in the time on the water that's required.

I agree with @Team9nine. I don't know if I would necessarily use the word art. I think people tend to give the Pros too much credit for what's going on in their head and not enough credit for what they do when the rod is in their hand. Exactly what makes them great with a rod in their hand is what is hard to identify. Take Jordan Lee for example. At his young age he is a far better angler than I will ever be. However, I've heard him talk a few times and I don't get the sense that he has an extraordinary knowledge about bass fishing that I need to learn from. He just goes out and catches fish and he does it better than just about everyone.

Welcome

Welcome to BR!

Welcome to BR

Very nice fish. I can't imaging fishing in New York City. I won't give you any advice since I have no experience in urban fishing but I will say welcome to BR.

UPDATE: I did some searching on the web and checked all of the UTM zones in the US with the coordinates you gave. Zone 12 was the only one in water and is on Theodore Roosevelt Lake. If this is your lake then your point is in zone 12 and might be written like this 12 N 491376.808 3725761.104

Wow, I can't believe they are publishing points in UTM. Personally I would not change my fish finder to use UTM. I would convert the coordinates before entering them. That way you will be using the same system as every other fisherman and every fishing map ever printed. Just google "UTM converter" and you should find plenty of online converters to do this for you. It's been a LONG time since I looked at UTM. I know a UTM coordinate requires a zone number which you did not give with the point you provided. They may state somewhere on the website that all of the points are in a certain zone. It might also be possible to switch your Lowrance to UTM, enter the points, and then switch it back to geo coordinates and it would convert them for you. Sorry but I'm not a Lowrance user so I can't help with that.

That's a really great question and I don't think the answer is easy. There is research on what is the optimum temperature for maximum weight gain for bass. Different studies have found slightly different answers but as I remember it's around 78 for largemouth and around 70 for smallmouth. As far as driving their behavior, I think it's much more complicated than that. Ask yourself, what role does temperature play in your behavior? I prefer to be in a comfortable environment but if I'm hungry, I'll go looking for something to eat even if I have to go somewhere where it's hot or cold. If it's extremely hot or cold then it plays a bigger role on my behavior. Feeding fish are where the food is. They are not all feeding on the same thing all the time in every lake in every part of the country. So the more important question might be what it their primary food source in a particular lake at a particular time of year and how does the water temperature affect that food sources behavior.

Welcome!

Thanks @everythingthatswims. I enjoyed your writeup and I also appreciate how much you shared your thought process while you were fishing. It made for great viewing. Looking forward to seeing you on that stage again next year.

Welcome to the forum and welcome back to bass fishing.

Welcome to BR

Welcome Nolan.

The history books tell us that Pythagoras first used his discovery to reestablish property lines in the Nile Valley after floods. I think we all know that what he was really doing was calculating the position of structure and cover before the flood so that he could fish it during the flood.