fishindad

John, I only know you through your posts and replies on BFHP and you come across as someone who doesn't whine about much of anything ?

I respectfully disagree in the sense any professional athlete in any sport needs to step into the winner's circle in order to attract and, maintain sponsors. If these guys (and gals) aren't catching fish and placing in the money on a consistent basis, their sponsorship dollars shrink or disappear. Same with golf, tennis, whatever. In know this is getting off topic but I've been thinking about team9nine's original query (with apologies to T9 for the long post). You better believe these pros are ultra competitive and want to win more than anything. And not just to satisfy their sponsors. I guarantee they will do just about anything to win short of cheating. Look at how fast dropshotting, spybaiting, Neko rigging, just to name a few recent examples, took off with the pros. If tying on a used Cuban cigar on 25 lb. mono was the new deal you better believe these guys will be on it. So was Seth (and Jason Christie) telling the truth or were they just saying those things to sell sponsor product? These pros are so dialed in and have presentations absolutely mastered down to the finest detail - they better or they don't make the cut. I would bet Feider has fished jigs using straight braid, straight fluoro, mono, braid with fluoro/mono enough that he knows having a 3 foot leader of 20 lb fluoro with that jig was the deal that day. Whether you or I want to believe that or accept that is up to us. To me, Seth is like a young AMart, always thinking outside the box and so in tune with the fish and their presentations. Whatever his rationale was who's to say but I will bet a lot of pros are paying real close attention to what he is doing out there. He and Aaron are somewhat anomalies in that they aren't the prototypical "Southern boys" - nor is Ike or Brandon P. for that matter. And it's great for the sport, especially since I live North of the Mason-Dixon line, lol. Me personally, I don't really care nor do I think worrying about such details will make that much difference, to me, in a day's fishing. Just like most of us I do what works for me and what gives me the most confidence given the limited time on the water. Sure, if I fished for a living I would definitely experiment all the time with such details because it most certainly can and would make a difference between cashing a check or not. Where I fish there are tons of muskies and I've lost plenty of $$$ jerkbaits to bite-offs that I always have a fluoro leader. And still get bit off (yes, I know the diff between a bite-off and a knot failure). There's no one single perfect line choice but we all know enough that there's usually a perfect line choice or combination of lines for our own personal bass fishing situations.

Though I've never fished those waters in upstate NY, I would guess they are very similar to waters I fish here in MI (clear, mesotrophic) and what Seth F. fishes in MN. I agree with Rich that Seth probably threw a few casts with straight braid and was/is so dialed in to that presentation and the fish that he made that adjustment for whatever reason - rate of fall, toothy critters, visibility, etc and it worked.

Agreed! Most all the rivers and streams where I live have grass both emergent and submergent, which is where the bass hang out. I try to use poppers, props and walkers but it gets too frustrating clearing weeds every other cast. Open water the walking bait is sure fun though.

Fluke-type bait rigged EWG weedless is great in smaller streams and rivers. Basically, it works any time you're fishing smallies in current!

Jackall Sasuteki craw and Cover craw. Trailers are a different 'beast'.

You and me both, I could not stand those reel seats (spinning). Will definitely try out these new rods.

I have fished a lot of different rods over the years and would highly recommend you check out Falcon Cara rods. Their ST Finesse Jig rod and Amistad are two rods I'll never be without. I don't flip at all so I don't know about their flipping sticks. My next suggestion would be Dobyns Champions as I have heard their 765 Flippin rod is a special stick and they have an excellent line of bass rods also.

A-Jay, you showing off the net or that pig bass that's in it?

Yeah but I don't believe you have big, mean brownies down in San Diego, do you? I think you guys might have meanmouths though. Tussle with a couple dozen 3-5 lb smallies and see what they can do to your knots, lol. As an aside, I have upsized my lines when fishing the Great Lakes mostly because of the zebra mussels and the toothy critters. I rarely use 6lb leader any more. I honestly don't think bass can discern between 4lb and 20lb fluoro underwater. I admit that using heavier lb line does impede the lure's (jig, plastic, etc) action. I do still keep a rod rigged with 6lb for Ned rigs though.

These two responses are what I agree are valid reasons for using an extra long leader (greater than 6-8 feet). I am no dropshot expert nor an expert with braid-to-fluoro but in my experiences catching and landing some 3-5lb smallmouths, there's a lot more added stress and friction on the knot running in the guides when you get a smallie boatside and he does the usual surges and digs. Best to have the leader knot on the spool or short enough so it doesn't get past the tiptop. To Big Bait's point I've heard Seth Feider say that is the reason for him using a 25 ft+ leader on Mille Lacs dropshotting for smallies. Drops quicker and more sensitive/direct. I use 2 identical dropshot setups, one spooled with straight 8lb Sniper for video game dropshotting and another identical setup for casting with braid + FC leader. In the latter case my leader is roughly 6-8 feet so the knot is rarely ever past the tip top as I never reel the fish in that close. I also have gone to 8lb leader (used to use 6 and 7lb) and find I almost never break off and need to retie. I absolutely believe straight FC is the way to go when dropping directly on top the fish. I feel braid doesn't give me any added sensitivity with only 30-40 feet (about 1.5-2 boat lengths) of line out compared to straight FC. Braid is the best handling line for spinning reels but is not very good casting in crosswinds (huge bow in line) or a slack line presentation.

Do yourself a favor and get some 1/16th oz. darter heads, 2" Yamamoto single tail grubs in pearl and you'll catch just about every species of fish in your water, from dinks to lunkers. The aforementioned bettle spins, #1 Mepps in-lines, and Road Runners also are mandatory ultralight baits one should throw. I would not recommend using a steel leader on ultralight tackle. Just don't throw high dollar baits for the toothy critters to steal.

1. I assume the OP is doing everything exactly the same whether it is moss green 50lb. braid or high-vis 50lb. braid. And he has caught lots of fish on moss green. Therefore it eliminates anything he's doing differently presentation-wise. 2. Up on Lake St Clair, guys fish for skis with 80lb. braid and 100lb. wire leaders. They catch muskies. They also catch incidental and overly aggressive walleyes and smallies. 3. I doubt the average person, with 20/20 vision, snorkeling in the clear waters up in Michigan could discern braided line more than 30ft away on a fast-moving lure. You'd first see the lure moving and then if you focused on the line attached...maybe. But the lure would draw your attention first. 4. Ever hear of ice fishermen using tip-ups with big suckers for pike? They often use braided line straight to a multi-hook rig and the bait is suspended down the hole. They catch monster pike. 5. Never fished for 'em but I'll bet if you dragged half a live tuna on 1/2" cable or rope with a ginormous hook stuck in it, a great white shark would have no hesitation wanting to eat that thing. I doubt they're thinking about being hooked in the jaw. So yes, we give fish may too much credit for thinking. Fishing reaction baits, I honestly don't think fish see the line (or hooks) or even care. For smaller baits and for finesse fishing, I agree the light(er) line will give more action to the bait/lure and entice more bites than with 50lb. braid. But if a fish is hungry enough they're going to eat the bait. If they aren't in a feeding mood, well then you better make them strike out of aggression or have some live bait on board. And even that's no guarantee.

6'10" fast action L power spin rod from company green with.... plus 2500 Ci4 with 6lb. 832. Usually 6lb fluoro leader but will go down to 5lb. on occasion. Any lighter line test or power rod and it's harmful to the fish as breakoffs increase exponentially with true UL rods and 4lb and under lines, IMO.

To the OP, this is great advice. Buck Perry is probably the "Yoda" of modern day bass fishing. He opened the eyes of freshwater anglers (mostly bass anglers) to concepts like structure, migration routes, breaklines, etc. and taught pioneers like the Lindners, who have further advanced these concepts in locating and catching bass/fish. That said, I would suggest you post this question to walleye fishermen, who basically troll all the time and have refined that technique to an art form. Bass fishermen typically don't (or can't) troll, not that it's not effective or isn't done. Just that you'll probably get more detailed advice. Go to Walleye Central and post your question. Not saying Indiana's reply isn't helpful (I agree with him that you need to switch to a baitcaster), just that you mentioned walleye in your lake.

I've used clippers, a knife, scalpel, Fiskars, and the Boomerang - all work but I prefer the Boomerang.

FF, I'm with John on this. I know you fish St Clair like me and even though it's not very deep water, I tend to have a lot of line out when dropshotting because I typically cast or drag with it. Don't ever videogame unless it's in the channels where it does get 30ft+. I feel the higher density of fluorocarbon excels in transmitting bites and the bottom over braid plus leader. And I've tried two identical setups (original Crucial DS rod) to compare DS'ing straight 7lb Sniper to Power Pro plus 7lb Sniper leader. As mentioned, every line on spinning reels needs routine un-twisting behind the boat. Anyone who does it knows it's a necessary evil that takes maybe 5 minutes at the end/beginning of each outing. And it works brilliantly, right? And I agree with teamnine that one does nnot need to change line as often as 'pros' say so - I just cut off 5-6 feet if the line feels nicked up from rocks and zeebs and good to go. Quality FC lines last a long time.

You got that right! And it's always windy here on the great lakes, don't think I've been out yet this year when it hasn't been blowing 20+ winds.

I agree that time on the water is the best teacher. Like most, I have tried braids, fluoros, copolymers, mono lines. No one fishing line is best at everything. Tectan is about the best handling line for spinning reels I have used with McCoy's Mean Green a close second. Braid has no stretch and no equal cutting through grass but it is terrible around rocks, zebra mussels, and Esox. The one and only situation I use braid now is when making super long casts for smallies in the Great Lakes and need to set hooks from a long ways off. Fluoro is not for topwater and is the least 'manageable', but it is the most abrasion resistant (lb for lb) though P-Line CXX is pretty bulletproof. Newer fluorocarbon lines are significantly better handling now, when used properly. If I had to choose one line only to fish the rest of my days, I'd choose fluoro, probably Tatsu. Back in the day I'd have chosen Maxima Ultragreen.

OK, you guys are killing me. The most recent break was on Sunday, where I was using 14lb YGK with a 6lb Sniper leader, which I tied the night before using 8 wraps up and 8 wraps down making sure the tag end went through the same way as it went in. It just snapped at the knot about 2 hours into fishing an 1/8th oz. slider. I've tied the Alberto knot dozens of times and always wet the knot and pull slowly watching close to make sure the wraps coil nicely around the leader loop. I do think shortening the leader will help - I worship Gary Y. but am not yet on board with the 25 foot leader deal even though that logic makes some sense. I think the more the knot goes through the guides, especially with hard pulling fish, the more wear that occurs. I'll recheck all my rod guides and try the FG knot next. And I've been meaning to switch to using leader material anyway. My takeaway is it doesn't matter what brand the main line (braid) is, a 4-6 foot leader seems best (for me) since I tend not to change lures more than once or twice an outing, actual fluoro leader is better, and don't give up on the alberto knot just yet!

This is an excellent point, thanks! I would agree that my line to leader knot could be adjusted (shorter leader) as there really is no way I change baits that often such that my leader gets shortened more than a foot at most during an outing. I'll try going with a 5 foot leader and see if this helps. I do think there's something I'm missing here and agree with others that the modified Albright/Crazy Alberto should be a great knot. It's definitely not getting hung up in the guides so probably not that. Our season just started so I have lots of time to experiment.

Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.

Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches. Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.

So I have been using braid (Power Pro, 832, and YGK) on my spinning reels with Sunline Sniper leader in various lb tests mainly 7 and 8lb. I also use the Crazy Alberto knot (wrap up 7-8 times and down 7-8 times) to connect the two lines. I always make sure to exit the leader loop same way the line enters. I've also used uni-to-uni knot but find the Crazy Alberto better. And always make sure to wet the lines before cinching. And typically tie a leader length of 10 ft. My question is this: In all honesty, how many casts do you get before you need to retie? Let's assume an average of 50 casts per hour or a little less than one per minute. So I'm talking about fishing moving baits primarily. Does anyone ever fish their entire day (~6 hours) without breaking off and re-tying at least once? If you fish an entire day (or more) without retying, what knot are you using? What is it you're doing that I'm not? My thought is that I need to go up in lb test because I don't seem to have this happen (as much) as with the lighter line, like 6-8 lb test. I've checked my guides and they are all fine. I do fish Michigan so zebra mussels exist but I always seem to break at the line to leader connection. I'm seriously thinking to go back to using straight fluoro for finesse stuff.

x2.