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fishindad

Braid to leader - be honest

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So I have been using braid (Power Pro, 832, and YGK) on my spinning reels with Sunline Sniper leader in various lb tests mainly 7 and 8lb. I also use the Crazy Alberto knot (wrap up 7-8 times and down 7-8 times) to connect the two lines. I always make sure to exit the leader loop same way the line enters. I've also used uni-to-uni knot but find the Crazy Alberto better. And always make sure to wet the lines before cinching. And typically tie a leader length of 10 ft.

 

My question is this: In all honesty, how many casts do you get before you need to retie? Let's assume an average of 50 casts per hour or a little less than one per minute. So I'm talking about fishing moving baits primarily. Does anyone ever fish their entire day (~6 hours) without breaking off and re-tying at least once? If you fish an entire day (or more) without retying, what knot are you using? What is it you're doing that I'm not? My thought is that I need to go up in lb test because I don't seem to have this happen (as much) as with the lighter line, like 6-8 lb test. I've checked my guides and they are all fine. I do fish Michigan so zebra mussels exist but I always seem to break at the line to leader connection. I'm seriously thinking to go back to using straight fluoro for finesse stuff.

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My connecting knot rarely breaks, so I only retie before every trip.

 

:easter-119:

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I'll fish all day with the same uni to uni knot. But , I never throw my knot through my guides.

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All day and sometimes the following day.

I do re-tie terminal tackle every couple fish

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If you have trust issues with your setup why torture yourself eliminate the problem and go straight fluoro if that is what you think you need to do. If I do use a leader I use the blood knot and haven't had any issues with the knot connection. I also only retie my knots before each outing.  I fished for 7 or 8 hours many times and never retie unless its a lure change. But then again I rarely finesse fish and I don't use line under 10lb test. :dontknow:

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Seriously, learn the FG knot and you won't have to worry about your connection again, it really is that good. I only re-tie when the leader has got too short, there's absolutely no need to worry about the leader knot. Every other knot I've ever used to join leader to braid has been a weak point, especially when you are winding it through the guides. The FG removes that worry and weakness completely. It's a pain to learn, but once you've got it down it doesn't take too long to tie.

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Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches. 

27 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

Seriously, learn the FG knot and you won't have to worry about your connection again, it really is that good. I only re-tie when the leader has got too short, there's absolutely no need to worry about the leader knot. Every other knot I've ever used to join leader to braid has been a weak point, especially when you are winding it through the guides. The FG removes that worry and weakness completely. It's a pain to learn, but once you've got it down it doesn't take too long to tie.

Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.

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I also like the Blood Knot. Tie it correctly, wet it & fish all day or until the leader gets too short.

 

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47 minutes ago, fishindad said:

Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches. 

Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.

My eyes just turned 50 and I can do it fine. I'm sure you'll manage. Look on you tube for the versions where the braid comes from the rod tip and you hold the end of the braid in your mouth, then wrap the leader round the braid. I find this by far the easiest method. The half hitches are the bit that takes the time, the weave is a doddle.

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I don't fish braid for finesse fishing very much for that reason however, if I do, I use the FG knot. I have used it for saltwater fishing and it doesn't seem to snag the guides when you cast near as much as my old uni knot.

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I use the Alberto knot and only retie if I want to change my leader size or if it looks visibly worn.

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Are you breaking on fish, when hung up, or just randomly for no apparent reason. I typically use a 4'-6' leader (w/Alberto knot mostly), and only ever retie the leader knot when my leader gets into the 12"-18" range, which might be several trips later if I'm lucky :lol: and I use a lot of lighter 6-8# leader line.

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I can go, sometimes, like @Team9nine, several trips

if lucky w/o retying my leader. I also use lighter test

lines, mostly uni-to-uni now though i will tie Alberto

at times.

 

Said it in another thread, there's the whole system in

place that has to work together. You drag cannot be

set too tight, and you should be using the proper rod

strength for the technique.

 

As well, the slicker the line, the more wraps I will tie.

In all honesty, I can't remember the last time I broke

at the uni-to-uni or Alberto leader knot. Using 10, 15,

and 20# braid with anywhere from 4-15# test of 

various material.

 

Finally, I do not fish moving baits as much, but I do 

fish a spinnerbait often lately, and have had no issues.

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1 hour ago, fishindad said:

Thanks for the replies. I always throw the knot through my guides so I'm guessing this creates a lot of friction on the connection but there really is no way to avoid this unless my leader is like 6 inches long? I also tie a fresh leader/line knot before each outing and do not retie that connection though I do retie at the lure more than once, depending how many fish I hook. It just seems odd that this happens frequently - much more than I would like. As Sass mentions I am going to go back to straight fluoro for finesse fishing (6 and 8 lb test) and avoid the headaches. 

Thanks, Tim. I've been avoiding that knot because, well, I've got 58 year old eyes and it seems next to impossible to tie on the boat. But I'll give that FG a shot this season before I bite the bullet and revert back to all FC.

 

I think if you try , you will find that you can cast just fine with 18"-24" of line hanging off the tip.

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11 minutes ago, johnD. said:

 

I think if you try , you will find that you can cast just fine with 18"-24" of line hanging off the tip.

Accurate casting (for me, anyway) means that lure weight, rod characteristics, spool tension, distance, wind, obstacles....and length of line between lure and rod tip ....all must be taken into account.  Most of those variables are constants --- the easiest to adjust is the distance of lure to tip while casting -- I refuse to compromise on that to compensate for knot fear.   Pretty rare that I'll willingly cast anything other than a c-rig with 24" hanging out there.

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I don't think a knot going through the guides matters. I retie before every outing and when the leader is too short. Alberto all day, every day.

 

However, I think you can run into problems with the Alberto knot if your leader is significantly smaller in diameter compared to the braid main line.

 

Knock on wood, I've never blown a leader knot that I've tied. Kung Fu Girlfriend, Destroyer of Tackle, is another story, but I think that's the Indian rather then the arrow.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Choporoz said:

Accurate casting (for me, anyway) means that lure weight, rod characteristics, spool tension, distance, wind, obstacles....and length of line between lure and rod tip ....all must be taken into account.  Most of those variables are constants --- the easiest to adjust is the distance of lure to tip while casting -- I refuse to compromise on that to compensate for knot fear.   Pretty rare that I'll willingly cast anything other than a c-rig with 24" hanging out there.

 

My reply was aimed at the op and his spinning set up. I'm not talking about somebody with a baitcaster and a 6' rod whipping a spinnerbait down the bank..

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I use alberto knot for 30lb braid to 14lb mono. 5 wraps up, 5 down. I usually tie a 15-20ft leader, and I retie my leader line every few trips. havnt had it break in quite a few years.

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4 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Are you breaking on fish, when hung up, or just randomly for no apparent reason. I typically use a 4'-6' leader (w/Alberto knot mostly), and only ever retie the leader knot when my leader gets into the 12"-18" range, which might be several trips later if I'm lucky :lol: and I use a lot of lighter 6-8# leader line.

Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.

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2 hours ago, fishindad said:

Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.

 

Just speculation, but it might be a combination of leader length and smallies in your case (not sure if micros would play any differently in this scenario). I use a 4-6' leader which usually only ends up inside the guides on the cast. With a 10' leader, your knot will be inside the guides on the cast, but more importantly, also when a fish gets close to the boat and has the rod/line under a lot of pressure while fighting the fish. Add a smallie's fighting and surging a lot at the boat toward the end, and I bet your knot is going in and out of the guides under pressure a lot more than most. Might not make a huge difference with thicker lines as some mentioned, but thinner lines as you stated might be a bit more susceptible to wear in these circumstances, especially if being used all day long. 

 

-T9

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1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

Just speculation, but it might be a combination of leader length and smallies in your case (not sure if micros would play any differently in this scenario). I use a 4-6' leader which usually only ends up inside the guides on the cast. With a 10' leader, your knot will be inside the guides on the cast, but more importantly, also when a fish gets close to the boat and has the rod/line under a lot of pressure while fighting the fish. Add a smallie's fighting and surging a lot at the boat toward the end, and I bet your knot is going in and out of the guides under pressure a lot more than most. Might not make a huge difference with thicker lines as some mentioned, but thinner lines as you stated might be a bit more susceptible to wear in these circumstances, especially if being used all day long. 

 

-T9

This is an excellent point, thanks! I would agree that my line to leader knot could be adjusted (shorter leader) as there really is no way I change baits that often such that my leader gets shortened more than a foot at most during an outing. I'll try going with a 5 foot leader and see if this helps. I do think there's something I'm missing here and agree with others that the modified Albright/Crazy Alberto should be a great knot. It's definitely not getting hung up in the guides so probably not that. Our season just started so I have lots of time to experiment.

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3 hours ago, fishindad said:

Mainly for no apparent reason. I don't get hung that often and do land some serious smallies but towards the end of the outing, the leader will break off right at the knot. Does having micro guides cause more issue? The last 4-5 guides on my spin rods have micros, not the baitcasters.

all of my rods have micro guides ( spinning, casting, & swimbait rods ) , i tie a 12 -15 ft. leader of 6 lb. Sniper to 6 lb. braid ( neon lime 832 at the moment ) tied with a double or triple Surgeon's knot , i tie it on before i head out and fish it all day with no problems . same goes with my other baitcasting rod setups , 20 lb. braid to 8 lb Sniper or 10 lb. Shooter, 30 lb. braid to 14 lb Sniper ( swimbait rod is straight co-poly )

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3 minutes ago, fishindad said:

 I do think there's something I'm missing here and agree with others that the modified Albright/Crazy Alberto should be a great knot. It's definitely not getting hung up in the guides so probably not that. Our season just started so I have lots of time to experiment.

 

I doubt it's the knot specifically unless you are simply tying it wrong. Alberto is one of the strongest tested knots, and the same knot I use probably 90% of the time. I've landed everything from 30" hybrid stripers and catfish to 40 pound buffalo using it with 6# and 8# fluoro leaders and never had issues. About the only difference from the sounds of it is I use 7 or 8 wraps up and back with "micro" lines (usually one less wrap back down).

 

-T9

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10 hours ago, johnD. said:

I'll fish all day with the same uni to uni knot. But , I never throw my knot through my guides.

So your leader is 8-12 inches? I'm confused

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I also use the Alberto with 6up and 5 down.  I run a rod length leader where the knot is just below my tip top when I tie on the hook and it's on the hanger.  It is as long as I can get without creating a kink while storing or traveling.  It gets shorter as I fish and I get one or two outings out of a leader.  I check my leader often and trim as needed to keep it abrasion free.

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