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T_Nix35

Heavy Power Rods For Deep Cranking

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My buddy recently showed a video to me about deep crankin' hosted by David Dudley. It totally changed my view on deep crankin' and the rod I should select to crank deep for hogs. Ive noticed a few other guys on here like to use Medium-Heavy rods to deep crank, but I own a 7' Heavy power Fast action Duckett Micro Magic and was wondering if it would work just as well. I can't afford to go out and buy a new rod just for this technique, because I am saving up for my first spinning set up for a tournament I am going to be fishing in May. If you guys could just give me some opinions on this deep crankin' theory that would be awesome. I would also like to hear if y'all agree with me using a Heavy power rod instead of a Medium-Heavy. Anyone out there will tell you a Duckett rod has extremely fast action, that is why I believe my Heavy power Duckett will work.

 

Thanks,

 

TCN

 

P.S. Heres the video if your interested-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0hacikQwoc

if that doesn't work just search "David Dudley Deep Cranking" on youtube and you should find it pretty easy.

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He's the guy that was using straight braid and a stiff rod saying he can bury the hooks deeper? I don't buy it.... But just try it and see how it works

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That wasn't the only reason he was doing it. Using the stiffer rod and the braided line allows him to cast farther therefor keeping his bait in the strike zone longer, which makes sense. I will for sure try it, I just wanted some opinions on the subject.

 

Thanks Wbeadlescomb,

 

TCN

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My thinking is I like a soft rod for crankbaits just because it's easy to pull a hook or the fish to get leverage on a big crankbait if there's even the smallest amount of slack and throw it. But if I can keep the bend in a softer rod when he jumps the rod is still staying loaded up.

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Back before I had enough dough for a good set of rods, I used a bass pro tourney special 7'6 heavy to crank with. This was back several years ago, I caught plenty of fish with it, but lost more than my fair share of fish. I could literally see where the hooks would rip holes in the mouth of fish and let the hooks be thrown, resulting in a lost fish.

Since then I have switched to a 7'8 glass rod for all my big medium and deep divers. Once hooked up with a fish, I can tell a huge difference when fighting the fish, and with hooks staying buried in the fishes mouth.

If the Duckett heavy is all you have, the best advice I could give you would be to use a thin mono or copolymer line, that will stretch with hooksets and cut down some on ripping the mouth of the fish. Lighter drag settings could help also.

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I deep crank on a 7'6" 5 power rod which is basically listed as a heavy and I do just fine.  I'm throwing DD-22 with no problem....biggest thing is your casting distance as the farther you cast the deeper you can keep the bait.  Any rod will work, where you appreciate the glass/crankbait rods are when you are deep cranking all day...they put less fatigue on the body.

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Just felt the brand new dobyns 806 cb and trust me that is a crankbait rod through and through. Its got the same diameter of a crankbait rod but enough power to cast a 10xd. If I threw a 10xd I would buy it in a heart beat. Instead i am buying the 765cb glass. 

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That wasn't the only reason he was doing it. Using the stiffer rod and the braided line allows him to cast farther therefor keeping his bait in the strike zone longer, which makes sense. I will for sure try it, I just wanted some opinions on the subject.

 

Thanks Wbeadlescomb,

 

TCN

The rod should still be moderate. You can use braid for lighter line and deeper results but using a fast action rod and braid is ridiculous

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Dudley is an accomplished, successful pro BUT I don't buy it one bit. First, I owned a Lamiglas Excel 7116 and it's good for flippin heavy jigs and shooting pool. It's STIFF. Stiff rods do not translate to long casts. VanDam's launcher rod is moderate. Dobyns 805CB and 806CB's are moderate.  Heavy does not mean stiff. To load a rod with any lure there has to be flex and reflex.  The 7116 ? Not.

 

Moderate rods can still have power and not become over powered by the resistance of the bait. Crankbaits are treble hook lures with smaller diameter wire and baits are not always enclosed in the fishes mouth like a T rig plastic or jig and some forgiveness is a benefit.  That is where moderate actions come into play. Dudley doesn't like noodle rods that double over.  I don't either and I don't see many other anglers who do unless they are fishing 4 pound test. Dudley's take is so far out of the norm it doesn't fit.  Even Rick Clunn made the transition to composite/glass rods for cranking. Look at David Fritts and what he uses. Evidence demands a verdict. If Dudley likes this set up, good for him.  I think it's ill advised to follow his lead. If you want to experiment, go ahead and throw a DD with your flippin stick. It won't last long I bet.

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Back before I had enough dough for a good set of rods, I used a bass pro tourney special 7'6 heavy to crank with. This was back several years ago, I caught plenty of fish with it, but lost more than my fair share of fish. I could literally see where the hooks would rip holes in the mouth of fish and let the hooks be thrown, resulting in a lost fish.

Since then I have switched to a 7'8 glass rod for all my big medium and deep divers. Once hooked up with a fish, I can tell a huge difference when fighting the fish, and with hooks staying buried in the fishes mouth.

If the Duckett heavy is all you have, the best advice I could give you would be to use a thin mono or copolymer line, that will stretch with hooksets and cut down some on ripping the mouth of the fish. Lighter drag settings could help also.

You make some valid points about not using my Duckett and I will definitely take that into consideration. I think a lower drag setting will help with the hooks from ripping the fishes mouth, but I definitely will not use mono for my crank baits. It will definitely mess with the depth my crank bait reaches. I may use co-polymer though, I really don't know enough about it and will have to do some research on it.

 

I deep crank on a 7'6" 5 power rod which is basically listed as a heavy and I do just fine.  I'm throwing DD-22 with no problem....biggest thing is your casting distance as the farther you cast the deeper you can keep the bait.  Any rod will work, where you appreciate the glass/crankbait rods are when you are deep cranking all day...they put less fatigue on the body.

Glad to hear it works for you! What kind of line are you using?

 

The rod should still be moderate. You can use braid for lighter line and deeper results but using a fast action rod and braid is ridiculous

Can you explain your reasoning behind this? I am not intending to use braid on my rod when deep cranking with it (Thats just what Dudley did), I will probably use 20 Lb fluorocarbon. I think you are right, braid and my H rod will be to much and not have quite the give for good hook ups and fish throwing the bait. Do you agree? Also Dudley has a MH and I don't, in the ideal situation I would have the same.

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Dudley is an accomplished, successful pro BUT I don't buy it one bit. First, I owned a Lamiglas Excel 7116 and it's good for flippin heavy jigs and shooting pool. It's STIFF. Stiff rods do not translate to long casts. VanDam's launcher rod is moderate. Dobyns 805CB and 806CB's are moderate.  Heavy does not mean stiff. To load a rod with any lure there has to be flex and reflex.  The 7116 ? Not.

 

Moderate rods can still have power and not become over powered by the resistance of the bait. Crankbaits are treble hook lures with smaller diameter wire and baits are not always enclosed in the fishes mouth like a T rig plastic or jig and some forgiveness is a benefit.  That is where moderate actions come into play. Dudley doesn't like noodle rods that double over.  I don't either and I don't see many other anglers who do unless they are fishing 4 pound test. Dudley's take is so far out of the norm it doesn't fit.  Even Rick Clunn made the transition to composite/glass rods for cranking. Look at David Fritts and what he uses. Evidence demands a verdict. If Dudley likes this set up, good for him.  I think it's ill advised to follow his lead. If you want to experiment, go ahead and throw a DD with your flippin stick. It won't last long I bet.

I am not buying in to his system and saying that this will be the only way I will fish deep cranks for the rest of my days, I simply thought some guys could bounce the idea around and let me here there experience of trying it. You are right this may not last long for me, I may try it and hate it. I won't truly know if I like it until I get out on the water. Also I agree that his idea is absurd and when I watched the video my thinking was this guy is crazy! He makes some valid points though. Watch the video and really listen to the reasoning he has for throwing a heavier rod. I believe that as far as casting distance goes and the load you put on the tip of your rod when throwing a bait is all relative to how you cast in general. Granted I will not be able to get as much "Whip" out of my Heavy rod compared to my Medium rod, but the whip from my Medium rod will not be as strong as the whip from my Heavy rod coming back to its original position. Therefor not throwing the bait as hard at my target. I may be wrong about this, but this is my understanding of the velocity at which your bait is thrown from the tip of your rod. Trust me, if I am wrong and this is a bust I will come straight home and tell y'all that it was a terrible idea.

 

Thanks for your input though,

 

TCN

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Tnix, I agree mono would affect the depth, but if he tried a smaller mono like a 10-12 pound test, I don't believe it would affect the depth enough to worry about unless your trying to get super super deep. Same thing with the copolymer. That's just my opinion though. Mono is about all that everyone used to use ya know.

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In the video his flippin stick looks wimpy when he casts. That rod is also almost 8 feet long so there is a lot more bend.

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I would never use anything but a soft rod for treble hook lures. I even prefer glass or composite rods with spinnerbaits too. Go with the 7'11" Daiwa Cielo Medium for bombing with big cranks.

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How deep is deep?  Over the years I have noticed that if I am using a big, deep diving lure, there is a lot of drag on the rod and reel.  Sometimes a MH rod bends double just from cranking the bait.  Under those conditions I would use a H rod, but most of the time I use a MH.

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I am an odd ball as I like cranking specific gear BUT...I use braid for my main line.I cranked for years with any rod, always caught fish, About 5 years ago I  bought cranking specific rods, several things I noticed right away:

 

#1 longer casts.......cranking rods load up and fling baits way further

 

#2 fewer lost fish.....the just seem to stay pegged better

 

#3 less effort....used to be if I deep cranked all day, I felt it, even with a low geared reel. But put the same reel on a cranking rod, and the rod absorbs a bunch of the torque of the big baits and spares me.

 

Now.......I fish a lot of grass, and the one thing cranking rods didn't do very well for me was cleanly snap the bait out of the grass..........then I started cranking wih braid, and for the most part that took care of that.....and gave me a few added things over the mono I used to crank with:

 

#1 longer casts

 

#2 got the baits deeper

 

#3 way....WAY more fish made it to the boat that bit on the end of a long cast

 

#4 the feel, I can almost feel bites with braid before they happen........it's tough to explain, but you get a sensation of the water around your bait is being disturbed before you actually feel the thump.

 

#5 the performance in grass is outstanding, not only does it let you pop it free and clean better than mono/fluoro, but (and this goes back to #4) you can feel your way through the grass better

 

There are some disadvantages to cranking with braid...........I would not use it for cranking rock, and in very stiff wind it gets a bow blown in it. But the whole zero stretch thing is backwards thinking IMHO..have your drag set right, and use a cranking rod, and you won't be pulling hooks out, or any of that.

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WW2 are you using glass rods? Or slower taper graphite rods?

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I am not buying in to his system and saying that this will be the only way I will fish deep cranks for the rest of my days, I simply thought some guys could bounce the idea around and let me here there experience of trying it. You are right this may not last long for me, I may try it and hate it. I won't truly know if I like it until I get out on the water. Also I agree that his idea is absurd and when I watched the video my thinking was this guy is crazy! He makes some valid points though. Watch the video and really listen to the reasoning he has for throwing a heavier rod. I believe that as far as casting distance goes and the load you put on the tip of your rod when throwing a bait is all relative to how you cast in general. Granted I will not be able to get as much "Whip" out of my Heavy rod compared to my Medium rod, but the whip from my Medium rod will not be as strong as the whip from my Heavy rod coming back to its original position. Therefor not throwing the bait as hard at my target. I may be wrong about this, but this is my understanding of the velocity at which your bait is thrown from the tip of your rod. Trust me, if I am wrong and this is a bust I will come straight home and tell y'all that it was a terrible idea.

 

Thanks for your input though,

 

TCN

 

 

I hope you don't think I am calling you out.  I respect your opinion and my response is not meant to challenge you personally. I question the concept as Dudley presents it in his video. Having OWNED the model he recommends, it was even more absurd to me. I have always been a proponent of,  fish what you got but fish. I hate to see anyone spend money on something that is an immediate disappoint to them and they have to start all over.  Been there and done that too many times. I'm glad to hear you are not buying into the concept as presented.  You stated the video changed the way you think about deep cranking.  I can tell from your post you are looking to be effective in deep cranking.  That's awesome.  The right gear will help you achieve that. A Lamiglas Excel 7116 is not just fishing a heavier rod.  It's action is for punching. Dudely is just over the top on this one.

 

Doug

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I would go medium to medium heavy but with flourocarbon to get deep.  Also some people will put a weight a couple of feet out in front of the crankbait (almost like a Carolina rig) to help it get down and stay down.

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WW2 are you using glass rods? Or slower taper graphite rods?

Graphite.

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I simply thought some guys could bounce the idea around and let me here there experience of trying it.

My assessment is that what is commonly thrown around for deep cranking setups do work and work very well, enough to the point where it doesn't need to be questioned to use pool cue_like power.

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Fishing deep diving cranks its all about balance. You need a rod with a soft enough tip to load up and launch the bait, usually the first 1/3 of the rod needs to be soft. The soft tip comes into play when the fish grabs your lure, between reeling, and your reaction to feeling a bite, plus the weight of the fish, the hook gets set pretty well. You can use a Heavy or Medium Heavy rod as long as you feel confident that it has the backbone and power to fight a hawg without losing it once you get it to the boat and it goes crazy. You're reel has to be able to get that crankbait out there in the wind without backlashing. When it comes to line, braid isn't the way to go for cranks, when you're cranking, usually its around, through, over, and/or around cover. Flourocarbon is much more abrasion resistant than braid, and good flouro is very sensitive.

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Whatever works for you.

 

But for me, cranking with a heavy action stick and braid would not work.

 

The system may work for smaller fish that you can man handle and just ski to the boat.

 

But anything larger, that is capable of dictating some of the fight, has a very good chance of jumping and tossing that bait right back to where it came from.

 

No Thanks.

 

A-Jay

 

 

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I hope you don't think I am calling you out.  I respect your opinion and my response is not meant to challenge you personally. I question the concept as Dudley presents it in his video. Having OWNED the model he recommends, it was even more absurd to me. I have always been a proponent of,  fish what you got but fish. I hate to see anyone spend money on something that is an immediate disappoint to them and they have to start all over.  Been there and done that too many times. I'm glad to hear you are not buying into the concept as presented.  You stated the video changed the way you think about deep cranking.  I can tell from your post you are looking to be effective in deep cranking.  That's awesome.  The right gear will help you achieve that. A Lamiglas Excel 7116 is not just fishing a heavier rod.  It's action is for punching. Dudely is just over the top on this one.

 

Doug

To be honest, I thought you were. Thats why I posted that message just to show you my thinking process and how I thought it could help my DC. I appreciate the message though Doug, I am glad we are seeing eye to eye now! Also, from your comments I now know that the Lamiglas Excel 7116 action is to strong for DC, which is good info to have!

 

 Tight Lines My Friend,

 

TCN

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First off, I never said I was going to put braid on my reel to fish deep cranks. Secondly, the reason I said I was going to throw my H power rod (F action) was because I can't afford to buy a new 7'-7'11 MH rod.

 

Anyway, I got out on a pond thats close by to my college today and gave it a shot just to see what would happen. The rod I used was a Heavy power, Fast action 7' Micro Magic made by Duckett. I used Seaugar 20 Lb Fluorocarbon with a KVD 5XD (it was the biggest crank bait I had at the time). Here is what I found:

 

1) I sincerely casted at least 20 yards farther then I would have normally, so thats a plus.

 

2) When my crank bait hit the rocks I was cranking too, It felt like a fish had just came up and smoked my lure (just to clarify I knew one hadn't because there was no shake in my rod tip and it did this for every piece of structure or cover I hit). It was awesome! I could easily tell the difference between any kind of structure or cover my bait was knocking up against. As it was running across the bottom I was thinking to myself "thats a rock, more rock, stump, gravel, etc…". So in my opinion, the sensitivity and feel you get from a H rod when deep cranking is much better then a flimsier pole.

 

3) The only downside I found from this whole set up was that I was backlashing terribly! It literally made me look like it was the first time I had picked up a bait caster. I set and reset my braking systems for an hour trying to get them just right, and I just couldn't seem to get them perfect. But, even with the backlashes I was casting a lot farther. Especially on casts when I could get the backlash to run out into a solid spool about halfway through my cast. Im gonna go out again tomorrow and play with it some more and will post my results tomorrow evening.

 

So I could stand corrected on the whole idea. The rod may just be too stiff to allow me to cast without getting a backlash. I think the reason this may be happening is because my stiff rod is shooting the crank bait so fast off of my tip that its spinning the spool faster then it needs to go once that bait is flying through the air. Another thing I think might be affecting it is the 20 Lb Fluoro I am using. If I have the chance, I will put some 12-15 pound on there tomorrow and see if that affects it any. Also, using an even deeper/heavier size lure may really work out the backlash problem.

 

Thank you for all of your opinions and information,

 

TCN

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