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snake95

Difficulties keeping fish hooked on Ned Rigs

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Thought I might have seen this somewhere else, but couldn't find in the Ned Rig resource.

I've been doing great with Ned Rigs this summer, fishing the bank in small GA ponds.  

I've been going around this summer handing out packs of TRDs  to my neighbors and intend to hand out more on an upcoming trip.

Only one problem - keeping fish hooked! (aside from snagging, covered in a previous thread).

I'm mostly using the standard-issue Zman shroomz in 1/20 or 1/16 oz.  

I've used various line and rod combinations - from an ultralight/moderate with 6 lb mono to light with 8 lb floro/10 lb braid to a med spinning setup with 8 lb mono. 

My cheapo ultralight has the best track record, but I still loose about 50% of the bass I hook.  I often get them close enough to see, or they jump, before I lose them.

The guys I've given TRDs to report the same problem.  I keep a tight line and drag set properly when fighting the fish.

Anyone else have this problem, and better yet, figured out how to overcome it?


 

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I couldn't get fish to spit mine if they tried....haven't had a problem with it. I do know my dad experienced some issues with them because he wasn't keeping the line tight while fighting, but I assume you wouldn't be doing that.

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You are using a thin, small hook that will penetrate the fishes mouth easily. It can also come out as you are finding, in particular if you drop the rod tip, or let off tension while bringing the fish in.  I had a real problem with my wife losing fish because she was dropping the rod tip, so keep an eye on that part of the equation.  It is rare that they take the bait and don't hook themselves. A much more common problem is that they will engulf the bait and hook themselves deep. I almost always naturally get a top of the lip/mouth hook set, so if you don't keep that tip up, you will lose them. 

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If you are using the weedless variety you might bend the hook slightly more open. If not it will just get snagged more. You also might use the original half a Zinker. I find their texture much softer after use. Maybe the bigger slightly stiffer TRD is not allowing as good a hook set.

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Did they start coming unbuttoned during the summer or has it been a consistent problem. During the warm water time of the year I lose more fish. I have read and believe it that sometimes their mouths get softer and the fight makes it easier for hooks to come out of the hole that develops in the side of the mouth during the fight. This time of year I try to fish baits on a tight line so I can hook them in the roof of the mouth more often. 

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It could be you are not getting a good hookset with the ultra-light rod, especially while using 6lb mono. if you can, try them with a slightly heavier rod like a light action, or medium light.

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Some more info:  

14 minutes ago, Scott F said:

 

It could be you are not getting a good hookset with the ultra-light rod,

 

Scott, I would say the ultra-light has had the best landing ratio of the various rods I've tried, and I only used it on a whim.  It has a fairly moderate action relative to my other rods with faster tips.  Not sure if that is a factor.  

22 minutes ago, cgolf said:

Did they start coming unbuttoned during the summer or has it been a consistent problem.

That's interesting.  Honestly I am a rookie when it comes to plastics and just started Ned rig fishing about 2 months ago. so it is not a relative problem for me.

More info:

Despite being a bit of a rookie, I think I am pretty conscious of keeping my line tight and tip up during the fight.  

I will say I find I usually have to reel like crazy to maintain a tight line with most Ned bites. 8 times out of 10 they are grabbing it on the fall and swimming away fast - sometimes toward me.

I would say my biggest problem might be getting a good hookset because I am scrambling once I feel the fish on the line.  As several guys suggested, they often choke the bait and maybe are even hanging on through the first part of the fight without being hooked well.

Maybe I need to get a better hookset?

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make sure you keep your hooks sharp, they are exposed and bump and bang all sorts of stuff, making them become dull.      I don't really set the hook just more of a quick reel and lean into them.

 

 

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I've only missed a couple bass on the Ned Rig. I use a 6' medium rod with 8lb mono and it seems to work very well. 

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1 hour ago, snake95 said:

Some more info:  

Scott, I would say the ultra-light has had the best landing ratio of the various rods I've tried, and I only used it on a whim.  It has a fairly moderate action relative to my other rods with faster tips.  Not sure if that is a factor.  

That's interesting.  Honestly I am a rookie when it comes to plastics and just started Ned rig fishing about 2 months ago. so it is not a relative problem for me.

More info:

Despite being a bit of a rookie, I think I am pretty conscious of keeping my line tight and tip up during the fight.  

I will say I find I usually have to reel like crazy to maintain a tight line with most Ned bites. 8 times out of 10 they are grabbing it on the fall and swimming away fast - sometimes toward me.

I would say my biggest problem might be getting a good hookset because I am scrambling once I feel the fish on the line.  As several guys suggested, they often choke the bait and maybe are even hanging on through the first part of the fight without being hooked well.

Maybe I need to get a better hookset?

When you get the fish close can you see if they have the hook sunk in them? Zman baits are tough, they could withstand a tail grab, I have had my share this year. A lot of times when I real in the bait is wrapped around the hook funky from when it snapped back after the fish let go. I have had bass pull off parts of a ned rigged bizz bug Jr. and the tails off a yum wooly hog. 

If you have a medium action rod like others are saying might help. I personally have been using a medium action ugly stick with good results. I like the slower tip when fishing around rocks and snags and if you get a bigger fish on it gives ya a little cushion if they make a big run. 

Reading through a little bit, do you fish it on a tight line or let sit on slack line? I find I get more consistent hooksets on a tight line, with many in the roof of the mouth, vs anything from a deep hook to a missed fish. Also you can try some of the gel scents out there to give you some more time to set the hook.

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The hooks on the Zman heads are not very great. I pour my own heads and lose very few fish. I fish mine on a 6' 10" ML/XF with a 30 size fast retrieve spinning reel, 24lb glIss with an 8 or 10 pound leader. The hook I use in a #2 or #1 Eagle Claw Lil Nasty and they are nasty.

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52 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

The hooks on the Zman heads are not very great. I pour my own heads and lose very few fish.

Thanks, Bluebasser,

I respect your opinion about the hooks.  Thanks for sharing the details of your setup.  I feel like not getting a good hookset in the first place is my number one problem, though there can be a lot of factors in the hookset.  Most of the shroomz hooks seem to be sharp out of the package, but some seem to dull quickly.  I don't want to knock Zman, because it's undeniable they make great plastics and their responses on the forum have been superb.  Heck, I've gone around handing out TRDs and shroomz like a preacher spreading the word because I'm so excited about all the bites I'm getting.  I'm not a guy who will ever pour his own heads (I'd love to, I just know I won't)  - so I'm all ears about alternatives.  I have some Owner EWG finesse ballheads that feel like better hooks and are very weedless, but not the ideal shape for hooksets with the tough Zman plastic.

Interesting to hear Bluebasser and others using XF (which I'd expect) and generally fairly "stiff" light or med-light setups - with low-stretch lines.

Thanks again - Snake.

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1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

The hooks on the Zman heads are not very great. I pour my own heads and lose very few fish. I fish mine on a 6' 10" ML/XF with a 30 size fast retrieve spinning reel, 24lb gloss with an 8 or 10 pound leader. The hook I use in a #2 or #1 Eagle Claw Lil Nasty and they are nasty.

I use the same setup,  LTB and a Pflueger  use a custom poured head, going to have to check out the hooks you're using.  Are they compatible with the 570's

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With the exception of pouring my own heads and using 15 pound braid with an 8 pound leader, Bluebasser86 and I use essentially the same outfit.  MLXF practically sets the hook for you. I never do a hard hook set with a Ned rig. I do agree on the ZMan hooks. They are a bit fragile.  

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I also use the lil nasty hooks, after Blue's recommendation and agree, they are great and sometimes a bit of a bear to get out. As you're relatively new to fishing, it may be that you're not playing the fish hard enough. I see lots of people who are afraid to bend the rod when they've got a fish on, especially when they think they're using light line. I use 6lb CXX with a 7ft light power popping blank by MHX for my set up and rarely lose any fish. The 6lb CXX is mega strong and the only fish I've had break the line was a pike who bit through it. The rod gets very bent during the fight and the drag often rips. Try playing the fish much harder than you do at the moment and see if it makes a difference. People often let fish swim around a long time to tire themselves out, that is bad for the fish and gives them more chance of getting off, so get them in quickly and release them quickly. Best for you and the fish.

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6 hours ago, Molay1292 said:

I use the same setup,  LTB and a Pflueger  use a custom poured head, going to have to check out the hooks you're using.  Are they compatible with the 570's

Yes, they work in the same molds as the 570's, plus they're black nickel plated instead of bronze.

Like others said, I really don't set the hook with my setup. It's either just a lift hookset, or usually I'll just reel into them. That little hook digs so easily that a hooksets often isn't required.

I agree Zman makes a great product, but the Shroomz head needs a better hook, especially for what they cost. I've been in the boat with guys who've had then break new out of the package on several occasions. I've caught fish over 20 pounds on the hooks I'm usingand the only time I've seen one break was when it was left rigged for weeks and the salt damaged the hook.

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37 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Like others said, I really don't set the hook with my setup. It's either just a lift hookset, or usually I'll just reel into them. That little hook digs so easily that a hooksets often isn't required.

This is very helpful and makes sense with my experience (or the difficulties I've had).  Also good to hear what everyone is using for rods and line, and how that works with the whole setup.  I have a med/light fast that "feels" about right, but good to get the confirmation.  

Good to get the other feedback about fighting the fish too - though I'm not having similar problems with other plastics fished with other methods - T-rigged worms and craws, wacky-rigs, paddle tails etc.  My difficulty is really a significant loss ratio with the Ned rig relative to other plastics and rigs.  The Ned is getting a ton of bites, particularly with TRD's - and this discrepancy really motivated my post.

I feel like it helps to thread the TRD on off-center so that there is less plastic between the shank and tip than if I was centering them on the head.  Knowing about how other guys have had difficulties with shroomz and what everyone is using really helps.

 

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I must be lucky and got good shroomz hooks cause no issue with them. I use trd and 1/20-1/10-1/5 hook-ups are great this using 8' ML/moderate rod nanofil line. I use same rod/reel set-up with excellent success throwing wacky senkos.

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I use a mix of the Z-man and Gopher Head when fishing with an exposed hook and with both of them I have found that I will rarely loose a fish if I give them a second hookset after then have made their first run.  I found that on the initial hit, a reel down and lift seems to get them on far better then a hard set, but the fish will often come off on the jump if I don't add a second hard set once they clearly have a good bite on it.

At this point I only really use the ned for river/stream smallies, so maybe with less energetic lake/pond fish it isnt needed.  

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I use the VMC mushroom head jig hooks and have not had a problem landing fish this season. The few I lost were when I didn't keep tension on the line.

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7 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Yes, they work in the same molds as the 570's, plus they're black nickel plated instead of bronze.

Like others said, I really don't set the hook with my setup. It's either just a lift hookset, or usually I'll just reel into them. That little hook digs so easily that a hooksets often isn't required.

I agree Zman makes a great product, but the Shroomz head needs a better hook, especially for what they cost. I've been in the boat with guys who've had then break new out of the package on several occasions. I've caught fish over 20 pounds on the hooks I'm usingand the only time I've seen one break was when it was left rigged for weeks and the salt damaged the hook.

I don't know how much you want to share but I would be interested in seeing  a picture of your jigs or maybe just the mold number that you use.   Your willingness to share information is appreciated.

 

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19 hours ago, Scott F said:

It could be you are not getting a good hookset with the ultra-light rod, especially while using 6lb mono. if you can, try them with a slightly heavier rod like a light action, or medium light.

I agree with this. I believe you need a stiffer rod.

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14 hours ago, Molay1292 said:

I don't know how much you want to share but I would be interested in seeing  a picture of your jigs or maybe just the mold number that you use.   Your willingness to share information is appreciated.

 

This is the hook on the original head I used.

20141030_090512_zps3001cc31.jpg

These are the ones I'm currently using until I can get the new Do-It mold designed specifically for the Ned rig. It's model number WRM-6-SLA. The lack of a keeper allows the bait to sit against the head much better to be glued into place. 

20160208_125056_zpsypfu6kcx.jpg

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I use the first mould, but can never get the keeper bit to come out consistently, I've found that the little wire keepers can be put in the moulds and make a good keeper for zman plastics witout needing glue.

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