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OCdockskipper

Ike's Ned Advice

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On Monday on the B.A.S.S. website, Mike Iaconelli posted a column about the Ned Rig.  It had some misinformation and I found it a bit misleading, especially when compared to the advice I got (and used) from people like Bluebasser86, Team9nine and IndianaFinesse on this website.  While I applaud Mike's effort to get this information out, I believe the problem is if a person follows his advice directly, the results will be less than they could be.  They will put a small Senko on a 1/4 oz jig, fish it like a shakey head and then say the Ned Rig is overrated.

 

I think part of the problem is Ike's loyalty to his sponsors.  He basically just made his version of the rig using parts from his sponsors and so he then states that it doesn't matter what type of plastic you use.  I believe Mike is talented enough to get results throwing just about anything, but folks like me aren't.

 

If my initial trial had been based on Mike's column instead of a post from Team9nine, I doubt I would have had the success I did.  Further, I would have likely lost interest and not had this technique in my repertoire.

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With finesse presentations details matter.

If you are serious the original of most finesse techniques Should be followed using the right line, weights, sizes and presentation as the folks who made work. The more wide spread a technique gets the more it looses it's unique fish catching quality.

Tom

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Read the article today too. Was surprised he mentioned 1/4 oz jigs, that is heavier than I've ever heard related to Ned rigs. I have had good luck with half a Havoc Flat Dawg though.

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1/4oz head would be worthless in most of the places I fish a Ned rig. It would be snagged in the rocks or buried in the grass. It's hard to convince bass guys to go light enough, or believe that the Zman baits really make a difference, but once guys actually give it a try they're usually pretty surprised how big of a difference it makes. 

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The "rig" came from the original Beetle designed by the great late Chuck Woods - with the 1/16th oz. head it "wandered around" as Chuck put it and we fished it without feeling it - Ned has refined this old technique and with the advent of elaztec it has become an extremely effective and surprisingly (to me) popular system. Whilst a 1/4 oz. jig head with a grub of sorts will catch plenty of fish it is not part of the ned rig system and would not work in many of the environs where we employ the little rig - and I would bet not near as effective.

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The 1/16to 1/8 oz dart head jig with 4 1/2" curl tail Flutter Craft worm was the Ned rig of the 80's because to effectively fish it you need 4 lb to 6 lb mono line and bass anglers didn't own spinning reels back then or didn't have any Flutter Craft worms. Mister Twister made 4 1/2" curl tail worm but you had to boil them so it was soft enough to have swim properly.

Don Iovino was customizing Ambassaduer 2500C baitcasters for 6 lb mono use, Dick Trask was kicking everyone's butt using Daiwa SS 1500 spinning reels.

It took several years before bass anglers accepted the idea that "finesse" tackle worked for bass fishing, today most bass anglers have a spinning outfit in their arsenal.

Tom

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11 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

I think part of the problem is Ike's loyalty to his sponsors.  He basically just made his version of the rig using parts from his sponsors and so he then states that it doesn't matter what type of plastic you use.  I believe Mike is talented enough to get results throwing just about anything, but folks like me aren't.

 

Yeah, that's an issue with all pros. If you look very long you'll find them saying different things or things that you know from experience don't work well for you.

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When is a Ned rig not a Ned rig? When it's not a mushroom head jig with a half a Z-man Zinkerz crazy glued on?

 

That's the one Ned talks about in his video on the subject. Then Z-man made Shroomz head jigs and TRD's regular and big sizes. I consider those Ned rigs as well.

 

I fish the small Shroomz head jigs with all sorts of trailers (3" Yum Dingers, Arkie Curly Tail grubs and Salty Chicken Feet, etc) I don't call them Ned rigs though. They all work and they all catch fish.

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Z-man shroomz and the TRD is a lure that I will fish for the rest of my life... I really don't need to buy any more lures.. Just keep stocking up on shroomZ and the trd..

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3 hours ago, Finesse Wayfarer said:

When is a Ned rig not a Ned rig? When it's not a mushroom head jig with a half a Z-man Zinkerz crazy glued on?

 

That's the one Ned talks about in his video on the subject. Then Z-man made Shroomz head jigs and TRD's regular and big sizes. I consider those Ned rigs as well.

 

I fish the small Shroomz head jigs with all sorts of trailers (3" Yum Dingers, Arkie Curly Tail grubs and Salty Chicken Feet, etc) I don't call them Ned rigs though. They all work and they all catch fish.

Good question. Z-Man offers their standard Shroomz mushroom jigs in a wide range of weights from 1/20 oz to 1/5 oz, so why does a 1/4 oz cross the line and cause so many negative replies? Mushroom jig heads have been around for decades, the barb keeper design is newer. What is new the TRD Z-Man soft tough plastics. Senko's are a few decades old now and do nothin French fry 4" worms also date back at least 30 years. Ned rig is evolving and will be so defused it will loose it's uniqueness like every presentation rig prior.

Tom

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It is ironic that the company who uses the term Ned Rig on its packaging has made lures (Big TRD) and jigheads that are too big or heavy to be fished the midwest finesse style.  I have to believe their marketing department won that battle against the lure developers, convincing the CEO that a segment of the fishing population would buy a "bigger Ned rig".

 

Two things convinced me that Elastic was better than other plastics for this rig.  The first was a day of over 50 fish on a TRD with almost no bites on a similiar sized senko (my stickbait of preference).  The second was watching both baits in a swimming pool.

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12 minutes ago, OCdockskipper said:

It is ironic that the company who uses the term Ned Rig on its packaging has made lures (Big TRD) and jigheads that are too big or heavy to be fished the midwest finesse style.  I have to believe their marketing department won that battle against the lure developers, convincing the CEO that a segment of the fishing population would buy a "bigger Ned rig".

 

Two things convinced me that Elastic was better than other plastics for this rig.  The first was a day of over 50 fish on a TRD with almost no bites on a similiar sized senko (my stickbait of preference).  The second was watching both baits in a swimming pool.

 

I would say the Big TRD was created to combat the argument that the Ned Rig doesn't catch big fish. What catches big fish? Big baits hence the big TRD. Like you said it's not the Midwest finesse style anymore.

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13 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

1/4oz head would be worthless in most of the places I fish a Ned rig. It would be snagged in the rocks or buried in the grass. It's hard to convince bass guys to go light enough, or believe that the Zman baits really make a difference, but once guys actually give it a try they're usually pretty surprised how big of a difference it makes. 

I don't have near as much experience with Midwest finesse as most of you. I learned to bass fish,pitching and flipping heavy  baits.

To me the hardest thing to overcome was the no feel part of it. once I overcame that, the results were amazing.

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For different reasons, Zman and others have inadvertently corrupted, and arguably hijacked, the entire thing. Midwest Finesse was so named to differentiate between it and other finesse tactics spawned in Japan or out west. It's roots stem back to the 1950s and 1960s, and later the 1970s in the upper Midwest, arguably before many of the west coast techniques were in play. The modern adaptations are obviously more recent. Don't confuse anything Zman or most others refer to as "Ned rigging" with the philosophy and practice of Midwest Finesse B)

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Take the advice of a pro angler with a grain of salt, they're usually just trying to hock stuff. There's some good in what he says, but a whole lot of salesmanship too.

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My Ned rig advice would be tie it on your kids rod tight on your wife's rod never tie it on your rod

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I know where and when the term "finesse" was used to discribe light line bass fishing and It wasn't in the Midwest. George Kramer and Micheal Jones were the first to use that term when writing about Dick Trask and Don Iovino's tournament wins out west in the early 70's. Finesse was often referred to as sissy fishing.

Where light line bass fishing started is anyone's guess?, but Jason Lucas was promoting light line in the 50's, Jay was from New York and fishing editor of Sports Afield back then. The lowly soft plastic worm was invented by Nick Creme should be given credit, without Creme worms we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Creme was from the Midwest, so in that regards we own the innovations of lure design and tackle development to several Midwesterners, but let's not to forget pioneers like Jason from the upper northeast.

Off topic but needed to added.

In regards to Ike promoting his sponsors tackle, that's how he makes his living!

Tom

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Always hard to say for certain where things developed, especially certain terms or words we commonly use now in fishing, but having their origins dating back hundreds of years ('finesse' dates back to the 1500s). It wouldn't surprise me to see some of this stuff in use in different parts of the country at about the same time, co-developed if you will. The earliest in print use of the term in fishing I've come across was also from the early 1970s, and that was in an early Fishing Facts article, a Midwest publication. I also know George Kramer and Ned Kehde have discussed the origins of finesse, as well as Guido Hibdon and Michael Jones touching on the subject in Michael's book on finesse. In the end it doesn't matter a whole lot. As you pointed out, others have written about light line tactics well before the term was in use by anglers, even pre-dating Lucas by a couple decades, so none of the guys in question actually created "finesse" fishing. Heck, many of these same guys don't even agree on what 'finesse' is now days.

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On 8/9/2017 at 10:47 AM, Chris. said:

Z-man shroomz and the TRD is a lure that I will fish for the rest of my life... I really don't need to buy any more lures.. Just keep stocking up on shroomZ and the trd..

Me too and yet I keep buying them anyway

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7 hours ago, sully420 said:

My Ned rig advice would be tie it on your kids rod tight on your wife's rod never tie it on your rod

Right? Who wants to catch all those Ned rig dinks like these :lol:

No automatic alt text available.

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