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Largemouth21

What size Minn Kota for 14' Canoe

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I have a cheap ~$400~ or so canoe with a trolling motor mount in the back. I am thinking towards a Minn Kota Endura C2 or Endura C2 Max (supposed to be less power draw) My boat is rated to 40 lb thrust, but I would feel comfortable going up to 55 lb. Boat weighs 90 or so lbs and with people and gear altogether (boat weight included) weighs 500 pounds or so. (not counting battery weight) 

Would the 55 offer more power/ speed? Would it be worth spending the extra money or would the power difference be negligible. from a 40 or even 30)Thanks 

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I use a 55 lb on this Old Town Square Back.  

Plenty of power - speed not really a concern as regardless of the application, no one's going any where fast in these type of rigs.

A-Jay

post-13860-0-58758500-1353867504_thumb.jpg

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23 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I use a 55 lb on this Old Town Square Back.  

Plenty of power - speed not really a concern as regardless of the application, no one's going any where fast in these type of rigs.

A-Jay

post-13860-0-58758500-1353867504_thumb.jpg

Sounds good, would you recommend the C2 or the C2 Max. Is the max worth the extra money? Thanks

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1 hour ago, Largemouth21 said:

Sounds good, would you recommend the C2 or the C2 Max. Is the max worth the extra money? Thanks

 

Whichever model you choose you WANT the digital Maximizer - will save your battery life and increase time on the water.  I've had motors both with it and without it.  There is a Noticeable difference with it - Big Time.

You also WANT variable speed rather than set speeds (5 forward & 3 reverse) The set speeds ALWAY either seem a tick to slow or too fast and it WILL cause Frustration.  Again, had them both and the variable speed IS The Way To Go. 

 

Something I Do Not recommend you get - is the TILT/EXTEND TILLER that Tilts (up to 45⁰) and extends (up to 6"). Like on the TRAXXIS

  The extend portion is fine but the tilt feature design on these is very poor.  EVERYTIME the handle is tilted either way, the internal control / power cable is PINCHED.  In short order it will FAIL.  I replaced two myself in years passed and at $100 a whack - I've given up on that feature which by and large - I do not miss. 

 

A-Jay

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In a canoe you should be able to use any small trolling motor.  30lb should be fine.  The higher lb motors will have more power for fighting wind and current but wont gain you much top speed.  The c2 with digital maximizer will cause sonar interference if you run a motor and fish finder on the same battery.  May not apply to your situation but i thought id put it out there.

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2 hours ago, IndianaOutdoors said:

In a canoe you should be able to use any small trolling motor.  30lb should be fine.  The higher lb motors will have more power for fighting wind and current but wont gain you much top speed.  The c2 with digital maximizer will cause sonar interference if you run a motor and fish finder on the same battery.  May not apply to your situation but i thought id put it out there.

Thank you, I don't have a fish finder so it shouldn't be a problem! I appreciate your input.

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

 

Whichever model you choose you WANT the digital Maximizer - will save your battery life and increase time on the water.  I've had motors both with it and without it.  There is a Noticeable difference with it - Big Time.

You also WANT variable speed rather than set speeds (5 forward & 3 reverse) The set speeds ALWAY either seem a tick to slow or too fast and it WILL cause Frustration.  Again, had them both and the variable speed IS The Way To Go. 

 

Something I Do Not recommend you get - is the TILT/EXTEND TILLER that Tilts (up to 45⁰) and extends (up to 6"). Like on the TRAXXIS

  The extend portion is fine but the tilt feature design on these is very poor.  EVERYTIME the handle is tilted either way, the internal control / power cable is PINCHED.  In short order it will FAIL.  I replaced two myself in years passed and at $100 a whack - I've given up on that feature which by and large - I do not miss. 

 

A-Jay

Thank you for the advice. How excactly does the digital maximizer work? it seems like something else to go wrong but if it works for you I might try it.

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33 minutes ago, Largemouth21 said:

Thank you, I don't have a fish finder so it shouldn't be a problem! I appreciate your input.

Thank you for the advice. How excactly does the digital maximizer work? it seems like something else to go wrong but if it works for you I might try it.

 

From the Minn Kota Web Site ~

"Digital Maximizer™

Motors with Digital Maximizer provide up to five times longer run time on a single charge by drawing only as much power as you need, so they don't waste any energy.  These motors are variable speed, so dial in your precise speed and let Digital Maximizer deliver the right amount of power, while conserving your battery - extending your time on the water."

 

Like I mentioned previously - IMO,  it's a plus not a minus.

A-Jay

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26 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

 

From the Minn Kota Web Site ~

"Digital Maximizer™

Motors with Digital Maximizer provide up to five times longer run time on a single charge by drawing only as much power as you need, so they don't waste any energy.  These motors are variable speed, so dial in your precise speed and let Digital Maximizer deliver the right amount of power, while conserving your battery - extending your time on the water."

 

Like I mentioned previously - IMO,  it's a plus not a minus.

A-Jay

Ok, I will check it out. How fast do you think you can go with it?

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3 hours ago, Largemouth21 said:

Ok, I will check it out. How fast do you think you can go with it?

Faster than I can paddle without it.

A-Jay

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My 15ft by 60in wide V bottom goes about 5 mph with a 55lb Minn Kota.  My 12ft by 36in wide flat Jon goes about 5 mph with a 55lb Minn Kota.  I haven't tried it on the canoe yet but I bet it will go about 5 mph lol.  Do some googling for "displacement hull speed and trolling motor power", if you would like a more scientific reasoning as to why more power doesn't equal more speed.  

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18 hours ago, IndianaOutdoors said:

My 15ft by 60in wide V bottom goes about 5 mph with a 55lb Minn Kota.  My 12ft by 36in wide flat Jon goes about 5 mph with a 55lb Minn Kota.  I haven't tried it on the canoe yet but I bet it will go about 5 mph lol.  Do some googling for "displacement hull speed and trolling motor power", if you would like a more scientific reasoning as to why more power doesn't equal more speed.  

The 55 will push through weeds, choppy water, and carry weight better right?

EDIT, I couldn't find what you were talking about. Do you think you could try to explain it in simple terms for people like me:D

Edited by Largemouth21

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Ok, well I guess in the simplest terms, after a certain lb thrust you're just wasting power.   The higher lb trust motors have more power but won't add much more speed.  If you're not worried about weight or using a bit more juice or the additional cost then go with the 55.  Then you'll have the extra power if you get a bigger boat later on.  If you wanna save on some weight, save some money, and use less juice go with the smaller motor.  I think the 40 would be plenty for a canoe but that would just be speculation on my part as I have not tried it.

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49 minutes ago, IndianaOutdoors said:

Ok, well I guess in the simplest terms, after a certain lb thrust you're just wasting power.   The higher lb trust motors have more power but won't add much more speed.  If you're not worried about weight or using a bit more juice or the additional cost then go with the 55.  Then you'll have the extra power if you get a bigger boat later on.  If you wanna save on some weight, save some money, and use less juice go with the smaller motor.  I think the 40 would be plenty for a canoe but that would just be speculation on my part as I have not tried it.

First of all, If I get another boat it will be a full size bass boat :) So I don't have to worry about that. but do you really think the 40 would push at the same speed? I get what your trying to say but it's hard for me to wrap my mind around how it would be possible for a higher thrust motor to not be any faster than a lower thrust one. I will look around to see what I can find. if the motor will drain the battery quick and be the same speed u suppose its not worth it to get a bigger one

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12 hours ago, Largemouth21 said:

 do you really think the 40 would push at the same speed? it's hard for me to wrap my mind around how it would be possible for a higher thrust motor to not be any faster than a lower thrust one. if the motor will drain the battery quick and be the same speed u suppose its not worth it to get a bigger one

 

Sounds like this is might be your first canoe / trolling motor rig.

Something that may help you is to have reasonable expectations as to what this rig is actually going to be capable of & is best at; as well as what it is not. 

 From my 10 plus years of fishing out of a similar rig, here's what I can tell you I have found;  

You are going no where fast.  You will have to learn what your 'range' is on one full charge and more importantly how to use 40% for fishing & leave 60% of it to get back, or you'll be paddling which obviously isn't the end of the world.  Wind conditions are important and I prefer to fish into it and 'blow' back to where I put in rather than the other way around.  

Having the TM is nice and I do prefer it to paddling as you can 'hold' position and go from one spot to another easily.  However super long distances at max power will deplete battery storage rapidly. When I used one battery, I would do it but often times I'd anchor a lot once there to 'save' power for the return trip.  BTW, I now use two batteries, one for the trip out & one for the trip back and I never use the 'go home battery' to fish, unless I feel like paddling. 

YMMV

A-Jay

 

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55lb is awesome with a canoe. I had one on my 16' Grumman

aluminum canoe. I've got a 30 on my kayak, but would like to

upgrade to a 45 with infinite speed adjustment rather than 

5 forward and 3 reverse speeds.

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An often un-mentioned benefit of using a higher thrust trolling motor is that you use a lot less of your maximum capacity to do what you need to do.

 

That'll mean longer life for the motor and your batteries.

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I see on another post that you've already decided on a 55lb TM so that decision is out of the way.

 

I will add to this discussion that people often say that a 30lb TM moves a canoe nicely so you don't need any more thrust.  BUT, while a 30 will indeed move the boat OK in still water and no wind - it's a different thing when you're trying to cut through slop or get hit with a sudden thunderstorm with 30mph winds and you're headed into the wind to get back to your launch point.

 

I started with a 45lb TM for my 12ft, 34 pound canoe, and still use that for smaller lakes or when I am relatively certain that weather will not be a factor. For larger lakes or when I'm expecting bad weather, I run a 55lb TM which is as big as you can generally go on 12 volts.

 

Regarding your questions about speed, IndianaOutdoors was pointing you to one of the limiting factors. On a displacement hull like a canoe (in other words, a hull that will not generally go "on-plane"), there is a factor called the hull speed. That is the theoretical maximum speed that the hull can make without a CONSIDERABLE increase in power.  Just Google "hull speed" and you should find some light reading.  The higher the length-to-beam ratio, the higher the theoretical hull speed. That is why long, narrow racing shells, many kayaks, and some long/narrow canoes have considerably higher hull speeds that some of the run-of-the-mill fishing canoes with wide beams.. My boat is only 12 ft (11' 6" actually) with a portly 38" beam and it's theoretical hull speed is probably very low.

 

The other limiting factor in using a TM as your primary propulsion is that they are not made for speed, and the pitch of the propeller is set for lower speeds and for handling wind and cutting through slop.  Whether you have a 30lb TM, or a 55lb TM, if both motors have the same prop pitch (and same diameter), and both have about the same maximum RPM, they are going to go about the same speed. The difference is that the 55 has enough thrust (power) to achieve that maximum RPM while going into the wind, but the 30 may not and will thus not be able to achieve the same speeds as the 55 in those conditions.

 

As A-Jay said above, running TMs on canoes is not about speed; it's about not having to paddle, to be able to fish while underway, to have power to hold in the wind, etc. If you want speed on a canoe, you need to consider a gas engine.

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8 hours ago, A-Jay said:

 

Sounds like this is might be your first canoe / trolling motor rig.

Something that may help you is to have reasonable expectations as to what this rig is actually going to be capable of & is best at; as well as what it is not. 

 From my 10 plus years of fishing out of a similar rig, here's what I can tell you I have found;  

You are going no where fast.  You will have to learn what your 'range' is on one full charge and more importantly how to use 40% for fishing & leave 60% of it to get back, or you'll be paddling which obviously isn't the end of the world.  Wind conditions are important and I prefer to fish into it and 'blow' back to where I put in rather than the other way around.  

Having the TM is nice and I do prefer it to paddling as you can 'hold' position and go from one spot to another easily.  However super long distances at max power will deplete battery storage rapidly. When I used one battery, I would do it but often times I'd anchor a lot once there to 'save' power for the return trip.  BTW, I now use two batteries, one for the trip out & one for the trip back and I never use the 'go home battery' to fish, unless I feel like paddling. 

YMMV

A-Jay

 

I realize the speed won't be fast. With the light loads I will be carrying I expect around 4-5 mph (faster than paddling)  BUT I don't mind paddling either. This is so I can get to my spot quicker and have more time to fish. I fish a tiny calm lake and I have almost no current/waves to worry about. Round trip I'm traveling less than 2 miles (I think) 

Going max speed with the 55 and max speed with the 45, the 55 would use less battery because it's not working as hard, right?

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44 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

I see on another post that you've already decided on a 55lb TM so that decision is out of the way.

 

I will add to this discussion that people often say that a 30lb TM moves a canoe nicely so you don't need any more thrust.  BUT, while a 30 will indeed move the boat OK in still water and no wind - it's a different thing when you're trying to cut through slop or get hit with a sudden thunderstorm with 30mph winds and you're headed into the wind to get back to your launch point.

 

I started with a 45lb TM for my 12ft, 34 pound canoe, and still use that for smaller lakes or when I am relatively certain that weather will not be a factor. For larger lakes or when I'm expecting bad weather, I run a 55lb TM which is as big as you can generally go on 12 volts.

 

Regarding your questions about speed, IndianaOutdoors was pointing you to one of the limiting factors. On a displacement hull like a canoe (in other words, a hull that will not generally go "on-plane"), there is a factor called the hull speed. That is the theoretical maximum speed that the hull can make without a CONSIDERABLE increase in power.  Just Google "hull speed" and you should find some light reading.  The higher the length-to-beam ratio, the higher the theoretical hull speed. That is why long, narrow racing shells, many kayaks, and come canoes have considerably higher hull speeds that some of the run-of-the-mill fishing canoes with wide beams.. My boat is only 12 ft (11' 6" actually) with a portly 38" beam and it's theoretical hull speed is probably very low.

 

The other limited factor in using a TM as your primary propulsion is that they are not made for speed, and the pitch of the propeller is set for lower speeds and for handling wind and cutting through slop.  Whether you have a 30lb TM, or a 55lb TM, if both motors have the same prop pitch, and both have about the same maximum RPM, they are going to go about the same speed.

 

As A-Jay said above, running TMs on canoes is not about speed; it's about not having to paddle, to be able to fish while underway, to have power to hold in the wind, etc. If you want speed on a canoe, you need to consider a gas engine.

Wow, I learned a lot. Makes sense really, So I realize I will not be going fast. But as A-Jay said, it's faster than paddling, so I'm happy. As for a gas engine, My next boat I buy will be a full size fishing boat. That's where the real speed comes from ;) 

 

 

EDIT: what's your battery life with your 55? is it better or worse than the 45?

Edited by Largemouth21

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31 minutes ago, Largemouth21 said:

Wow, I learned a lot. Makes sense really, So I realize I will not be going fast. But as A-Jay said, it's faster than paddling, so I'm happy. As for a gas engine, My next boat I buy will be a full size fishing boat. That's where the real speed comes from ;) 

 

 

EDIT: what's your battery life with your 55? is it better or worse than the 45?

 

I don't notice any practical difference between the two since I am usually only on very low power settings and both are MKs with the digital maximizer feature.

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4 minutes ago, Goose52 said:

 

I don't notice any practical difference between the two since I am usually only on very low power settings and both are MKs with the digital maximizer feature.

Full out would you think there would be a difference? That's what I would be doing mostly.

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I use an Endure C2 30 on a pond prowler type boat. It's a little slow but it pushes the boat good enough. 55 should be solid for your canoe 

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sounds good, thanks

16 hours ago, Dtrombly said:

I use an Endure C2 30 on a pond prowler type boat. It's a little slow but it pushes the boat good enough. 55 should be solid for your canoe 

 

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