i got some 20lb copolymer to put on my spinning reel.  i backed it with 30lb braid and tried to tie a double uni knot to connect the two.  i found that this line was really thick in this knot and caught on the guides of the rod a lot.  also i probably put too much on, maybe 20 yards, and it did not cast far/well at all.  it also didn't wrap back around the spool very well and tended to get tangled.  ultimately i put this rod away and decided to fish with straight braid until i figured out exactly how to use it.  i probably should have asked this question first but thought it would be just as easy and tying on and going at it, but clearly it wasn't for me.  thanks for any tips.

 

also separately i read that you should fish crankbaits in the fall with fluoro or something like it (in my case copolymer).  at the end of my crankbaits is an extra ring.  usually i use a snap connector on the end of my line to connect to that ring, but using copolymer would i not want to use the snap and tie directly to the crankbait?  do i still use that extra ring on the lure itself, or should i remove that too?  thanks.

That's pretty heavy, large diameter line for a typical spinning rig.  I fish cranks on a casting rig, with straight single filament line (mono, fluoro, or copoly) in 10-12# size. For spinning, I use 6# single filament line, or 15-20# braid tied direct or with a 6-8# leader.

 

For the snaps question, I generally remove the split ring when using a Duo-Loc snap.  I never use a snap-swivel.  If you are going to tie direct, then leave the split ring.  I would say roughly half my cranks are stored with a Duo-Loc already attached.  Retie often.

I think you are never going to get 20 pound mono, floro, or copoly to work well on a normal size fresh water reel.  It is simply too heavy.  If you need more strength than about 8 or 10, get it with braid (15-20 is what I recommend) used with a leader no stronger than you think you need (I recommend 10-20, the smaller the better for clearing the guides cleanly).  You can help with the braid to leader knot by using the FG, which isn't the easiest to learn to tie well, or the Alberto.  The double uni is an easy to tie knot and works well with floro or mono below about 20 (with braid) on all but micro guides.  If you limit yourself to about 15 on the leader and 15 on the braid you probably can use any knot you want.  I agree with J Francho on the snaps.

Everything that J Franks said is spot on. 

 

20 pound co-polymer is big for spinning set ups. All 6 of my spinning set ups are 10-15 pound braid to 6-12 pound fluoro. I'd put 10 pound co polymer if you're set on a single line. 

 

I tie all my hard baits directly to the split ring. A lot of folks like the snap for extra action and ease of changing lures. Use one or the other. 

So could I still use the 20lb copoly as a "leader?"  When we are talking leaders, how long could I get away with?  I think I'm going to have to learn the Alberto or FG, because the double uni with these two lines really limits the casting distance.  Thanks for the responses.

20 can be used as a leader as allowed by the guides.  The length is up to you, many different opinions on that.  I usually start at about 5 feet and cut it off and start over when it gets to about 3 or the knot shows significant wear and tear.  

 

If you are getting knots hitting the guides so hard as to limit distance you are in danger of damaging the guides.  A little tick or series of ticks as the knot goes through is all you should be getting.  If you use 15 pound braid and 20 leader, and are not using micro guides, then a double uni should work.  If it doesn't go down to 15 pound floro on leader and I expect that will work cleanly.  If learning the Alberto, keep in mind that direction the tag goes back out as the last step in the knot.  Go the wrong way and the knot will unravel.  At least that has been my experience.  With the FG, search for internet videos, try a couple methods, and practice practice practice.  One thing good about the FG is that it is so small it doesn't get damaged by the guides.  So tie a good one in your living room, and it will last a long time.   Usually not necessary to tie one in the boat.  The braid most likely will get scuffed up long before the knot fails.  Use condition of the braid to tell you when to retie.

When you say "these two lines,"  exactly what line types and pound tests are you referring to?

1 hour ago, MickD said:

20 can be used as a leader as allowed by the guides.  The length is up to you, many different opinions on that.  I usually start at about 5 feet and cut it off and start over when it gets to about 3 or the knot shows significant wear and tear.  

 

If you are getting knots hitting the guides so hard as to limit distance you are in danger of damaging the guides.  A little tick or series of ticks as the knot goes through is all you should be getting.  If you use 15 pound braid and 20 leader, and are not using micro guides, then a double uni should work.  If it doesn't go down to 15 pound floro on leader and I expect that will work cleanly.  If learning the Alberto, keep in mind that direction the tag goes back out as the last step in the knot.  Go the wrong way and the knot will unravel.  At least that has been my experience.  With the FG, search for internet videos, try a couple methods, and practice practice practice.  One thing good about the FG is that it is so small it doesn't get damaged by the guides.  So tie a good one in your living room, and it will last a long time.   Usually not necessary to tie one in the boat.  The braid most likely will get scuffed up long before the knot fails.  Use condition of the braid to tell you when to retie.

When you say "these two lines,"  exactly what line types and pound tests are you referring to?

i am using kastking 30lb braid and p-line 20lb copolymer.  thanks for the tips

Why would you want to use 20 lb P-Line Coploy line on your spinning reel?

Take a look at your rods recommended line size and don't go over the max with your coploy line size.

20 lb CX is .018 dia, 30 lb braid is about .011 dia, pick a coploy about the same dia, 8 lb CX is .011 dia.

Tom

i tried the FG today, after a couple of practices i thought i had it pretty good and went out and fished with it.  caught a 1lber or so, went a few more casts until the copoly went flying with my t-rig lure into the middle of the lake.  i looked at the end of the braid and it appeared like it frayed through the FG.  not really sure if i tied it wrong or just cut it wrong after the tie...

I can't tie a reliable FG knot for the life of me.  I keep practicing.  I'm not convinced I need to add another knot, but I'd like to at least be able to tie it reliably.

9 hours ago, kiteman said:

i tried the FG today, after a couple of practices i thought i had it pretty good and went out and fished with it.  caught a 1lber or so, went a few more casts until the copoly went flying with my t-rig lure into the middle of the lake.  i looked at the end of the braid and it appeared like it frayed through the FG.  not really sure if i tied it wrong or just cut it wrong after the tie...

This is like trying to solve a puzzle!

It sounds like the op is a shore angler and using a T-rig with bullet weight from his above statement. Still waiting for a answer to 20 lb leader using a spinning outfit with 15 lb braid? If the op is a shore angler using a T-rig/ weight, get rid of the leader and go direct braid or use a leader compatible to the rod strength, no reason to exceed the main line braid strength that can apply a stronger load then the spinning rod can withstand.

Tom

 

43 minutes ago, WRB said:

This is like trying to solve a puzzle!

It sounds like the op is a shore angler and using a T-rig with bullet weight from his above statement. Still waiting for a answer to 20 lb leader using a spinning outfit with 15 lb braid? If the op is a shore angler using a T-rig/ weight, get rid of the leader and go direct braid or use a leader compatible to the rod strength, no reason to exceed the main line braid strength that can apply a stronger load then the spinning rod can withstand.

Tom

 

i'm relatively new to fishing, but i went 30lb braid to 20lb coply.  i didn't realize the coply would be hard to wrap on a spinning reel, i was simply trying to match weight threshold of line. as for why i went with coply at all it was because i thought clearer line (leader) might make a better presentation and yield more fish. $12 experiment failed, not a big deal. 

Hold on to that spool of coply.  Keep it in a cool, dark place.  You can use it later when you get into a baitcasting setup.

The 15 lb braid isn't a poor choice for spinning reels. Fresh water size spinning reels are usually sizes 1000 for small, 1500/200/2500 for medium and 3000/4000 for larger sizes. Most bass anglers prefer the medium sizes and 8 to 10 lb test or .010/.011 diameter mono/Copoly/ FC lines.

Bass are not line shy fish and will strike lures in cover using 80 braid. Clear or translucent line gives the angler more confidence in water with good clarity, it's a personal decision not necessarily a factual choice.

I suggest using the 15 lb braid direct or add a 8 to 10 leader using a double Uni knot.

Tom 

 

10 minutes ago, WRB said:

Clear or translucent line gives the angler more confidence in water with good clarity, it's a personal decision not necessarily a factual choice.

 

Way too many anecdotal testimony for it not to be factual.  It may not be a hard and fast rule, but it's not untrue.

This can be debated until the cows come home.

When I was catching a few hundred DD bass at our local lakes the consenses was you needed to use 4 lb to 8 lb coploy line to catch those bass, this was the beginning of the Fineese fishing era. Bass couldn't be caught using "heavy" 12 lb Big Game line in our lakes. I just snickered and continued to catch those big bass on jigs in clear water with 10' to 25' visibility. 

The flippin era with Dee Thomas changes thinking, Dee not only caught lots of bass in clear water lakes, he parked his boat on top of those bass using 60 lb mono or 100 lb braid in cover.

When the swimbait era came along the light line couldn't be used, lures were too heavy, so 20 lb to 30 lb mono/coploy/FC and 50 to 80 lb braid tied direct became the popular line at those same lakes and big bass were caught. Next comes the A-rig era and heavy wire is attached directly to the small swimbaits and heavy swimbait lines are used and they catch bass in the same clear water lakes.

I agree the line diameter should be compatible with the lures action and also grew up thinking light line is more sporting than heavy line via Jason Lucas. I also learned to bass fish using Dacron braid tied direct to the lures and caught a lot bass in clear lakes.

I also believed in the FC promo that it is invisible to bass, my catch rates haven't improved as a result of using FC.

So tell me about anecdotal testimony! If you believe it help it helps, that is my anecdotal testimony.

Peace,

Tom

You can do a search as easily as I can, and we've debated this as recently as yesterday.  You can go on your witch hunt of fluorocarbon, and I will offer an OPPOSING point of view.  Every single time.  It doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it just reflects each others' experience.  If you want to blabber on about catching fish on a drop shot using 20# pink mono, have at it.  You won't catch too many in my neck of the woods.  Fluoro is dense, sinks, has better abrasion resistance than mono.  It transmits bites better, and happens to be clear.  It also works better for a few applications that use a lot than anything else.  If your favorite line works better for you, then use that.  But don't sit around and "snicker" because you think you know more. 

Put this in a time capsule and open it in 2037, that is how many more years of experience bass I have. My statements are based on my experience catching bass, not the Internet.

Tom

 

If you guys missed it, modesty just flew out the window...

20 minutes ago, RichF said:

If you guys missed it, modesty just flew out the window...

Agree, it's my (engineering black & white) personality that gets me into trouble and I apologize to whomever it may have offended.

Tom

 

Everything Tom says is true, if I'm on a lake like Conesus in mid summer.  Swap that out to Hemlock, and what I say is true.  Swap that lake out to Ontario, and it's more critical.  So, from my perspective, what's the issue with taking the most cautious approach?  Never mind that I much prefer the types of line I use over Big Game, or some other premium mono.

 

As far as modesty goes, I've posted my personal best basses from NY enough lately. And I'm not even close to offended.  I consider Tom a forum friend, ans respect and look up to him for advice.  I also enjoy a healthy debate with friends as well.

No offense taken here.  The debates are always fun, entertaining, and often informative.  

There is no reason to use the specs on a rod to select line or leader pound test.  You can go as high as you want if it optimizes what you are trying to accomplish.  You control the "effective" pound test with the drag, and remember, if you point a rod at the object you're pulling, it simply won't break.  Rod handling is very important.

 

It is very easy to break a rod with line of lower pound test than its recommendation.  Just point it to the sky and lift and reel.  Don't stop, and most will break.  This radical "experiment" is very close to what some people do when lifting a fish into the boat.  The high modulus/high performance blanks are especially prone to this.

 

The pound test rating on a rod is a decent relative power rating when comparing one rod to another.  If one is 10-17 and one is 12-20, most likely the latter will be a little  more powerful.  Combine that with the recommended lure weight for another relative power indicator.  If you want to get objective with power and action ratings learn the CCS system.  It is pretty easy to cobble up a test rig to test blanks and rods.

 

Here is a very good article for both beginners and vets.  http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/rodusage.pdf

 

Info on CCS:  http://www.common-cents.info/