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Hook2Jaw

Kayak pitching, sidearm. Rod length recommendations?

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I perform my pitching game on the move, accurately placing my baits quietly and quickly into and around cover just as most of you guys do with a boat.  You probably do so from a standing position with your foot on a trolling motor control.  To stay on the move and cover water and present my bait more times, I'm often pedaling and I perform my pitches with a side arm sweep of my rod, moving my rod horizontally.

 

I've been using a 7' MHF for the approach, but as paying off the kayak gets closer and closer, I will most definitely be adding a 7'4" heavy, extra fast to my arsenal among other rods as a frogging rod with 50# braid.  I've also considered adding a 7'11" heavy, extra fast for the pitching technique.

 

Initially when I wrote out my list of technique specific gear ratios, rod lengths, powers, and actions, I had lumped frogging, punching, and pitching into one rod.  That rod was the 7'4" HXF.

 

Do you guys think I would benefit from dissecting those three techniques into two rods?  Any input on the side arm pitch, is it more easily accomplished with a shorter rod?

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All of my rods I yak fish are 7'-0" and shorter with the majority of them being 6'-8", and I use the sidearm cast 90% of the time.

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I pitch with pretty much all of my rods, spinning included.  It's just a type of cast for me, so I use it when I need a low trajectory.  I'm in a kayak too, but I'm usually standing.  I'll move along using my free hand to give the Mirage Drive on my Hobie Compass a couple of kicks. If you think you want a certain rod that will aid in your style, I'd say go for it.I like my 7-11 TCS Mat Daddy quite a bit.  Here's my review of it:

 

https://www.bassresource.com/fishing_lures/mat-daddy-helios-review.html

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Wow, @J Francho.  You must have excellent balance to do that on a consistent basis.  I'm regularly high above the ground balancing myself on tree limbs, but still can't manage to propel myself enough to keep me pitching at a decent clip.

 

Excellent review of that rod, as well.  I'm sure it is as much a pleasure in your hand as you make it out to be.  Attaining a heavy stick with the sort of two stage action you describe is a bit out of my price range, I do believe.  My budget regulates me to less than 100 dollar offerings.  I have a feeling it will bite me one day, and I will probably step into more expensive rods like the rest of you guys eventually.

 

After further thought, I think the 7'4" heavy frog rod will be much more accurate with my sidearmed pitches.  Sweeping 7'11" sideways sounds like a smoothbore musket shot, as I won't be able to line the upward sweep up with my target.

 

I think you're correct, though, in that I should add the longer rod to my arsenal for pitching apart big laydowns and pad fields from a more stationary position.  I'll be able to stand for that type of fishing.  I'll also undoubtedly need it for punching.

 

Thanks, man.

 

@TBAG, I understand the shorter rod concept.  They pass under overhanging obstacles much more easily.  I'm trying to devise a way to have my crate mounted rod holders swivel to a horizontal, out the rear of the boat setting so I can more freely bomb overhead casts.  For the time being I accomplish it by casting at a diagonal.  Still, I find the benefits of casting distance and leverage far outweigh any cons a long rod presents in a kayak.

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For me, the punching rod is separate from everything else. I hate long rods on the kayak, but the reach of a longer rod is nice. I lumped fogging and pitching into the same rod for a while until I could afford another rod. 

 

With that said, all of my rods are 7’ or less, except the punch rod which I hardly ever bring out with me. They are easier to handle on the kayak. Especially when trying to land a fish. However, when I stand up, I wish I had the longer rods. I too like to stand on my yak. I’ll bend down and give the pedals a couple of strokes here and there to keep moving or to adjust my position. I do the same thing in my paddle kayak. I added a paddle clip to the bow so I can quickly and quietly snap my paddle in and out to make adjustments while standing. 

 

 

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In general for all my fishing kayak or not I prefer rods under 7’5”, at one time I tried sticking to even shorter on my kayak but was missing out on my best rods when in the kayak. So I’ve just gotten comfortable with my 7’-7’3” rods in the yak. 

 

For your budget and what you’re looking for there are two rods on clearance at TW you might want to look at -Dobyns Sierra 735c and the Megabass Levante Tour Versatile.  I like my MB rods but don’t own a Levante and have read nothing but good things about the sierras, I’d probably lean towards the Sierra. I know the 735 is listed as extra fast but my understanding is that Dobyns extra fast is closer to fast. 

 

Hint if if you go for one of those purchase a TW electronic gc at 10% off first, the use that to buy the rod if you want to save a few more bucks. 

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For a seated kayak, I have a squad of 6’6” rods that never see my bass boat.  Usually I underhand pitch or skip.  Sidearm only for casting as I am sure any kayak angler knows the disasterous results of overhand- rods clashing together!  

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The one rod I always carry along, ALWAYS, is my PS56MF St. Croix spinning rod. 5'6" M powered, fast. I have a Stradic Ci4+ 3000 mounted to it, 10 lbs. braid to an 8 lbs. fluoro leader. Keitechs, drop shots, wacky worms, etc.

 

This past 10 days or so, I have been out about 5 times, going out for a few hours in the afternoons mostly, going out minimalist. I took the 66" rod every time, nothing else (I was fishing back in the cove I live on).

 

I get others' reasons and preferences for other lengths. For me, I am almost all finesse, shallow water, and I fish up close to my targets. I can sit or stand and pitch with this 66" rod, I can sling baits way far under docks and boathouses, and its accuracy is off the charts.

 

Because the short rod has a comparatively short lifting point, it handles large bass effortlessly, especially since we use our rods and drags with spinning gear to battle fish differently.

 

I also have a 5'6" casting rod. I love it, too.

 

I would bet that any kayak angler who buys a short rod will never leave home without it. No issues carrying along a 7+ footer designed for long casts and that'd be a good idea where you know you will make such presentations.

 

Brad

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Unless you're dealing with trees or low bridges, I'm still not sure why many prefer a shorter rod in a kayak.  To me, length doesn't matter the boat.  I do typically fish off shore.  "Shallow" to me is 10 FOW.  I like a shorter rod for vertical stuff, though.

17 hours ago, Hook2Jaw said:

Wow, @J Francho.  You must have excellent balance to do that on a consistent basis.

Not really, it's all the in the hull design.  Any kayak I get, it's a requirement to be able to stand comfortably.  My first kayak, an OK PBG.

nicecast.jpg

17 hours ago, Hook2Jaw said:

After further thought, I think the 7'4" heavy frog rod will be much more accurate with my sidearmed pitches.

Funny you bring up frog rods.  Here's an article about my search.

https://www.bassresource.com/fishing_lures/primmus-reel-dhc-7-rod-review.html

 

I ended up using a pretty expensive jig/worm rod for it, lol.  Still  use this combo pretty regularly.  It's a perfect rod for pitch skipping jigs under docks.

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I just use all the rods I used when I was boat fishing. I have an older Falcon LowRider 7' MH-MF that's really designed for heavy cranks that seems to do the best at this technique so it's my jig pitching rod. It has a good tip, but loads up in the first foot and a half with lots of backbone. The model used to be called the Big Cranker. It also happens to be the most sensitive rod I own. My frog rod IS NOT a good choice for pitching jigs. It's a pool cue. But i do put another jig on it anyway when the frog bite is out of season.

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I can't get on board with the itty bitty rod mentality, either, of course I've been fishing from a kayak for a solid two years and often.  The idea that the smaller boat should be limited to a shorter rod just doesn't make sense to me.  I'm not often under overhanging limbs, and when I have passed under bridges during inshore fishing sessions it's simple to lay my rods down as I pass under it.

 

@J Francho, I have had no problems standing on my Outback, which I just sold, nor my Pro Angler.  I just can't comfortably lift a leg to operate the pedal drive.  I agree, I will never buy, for instance, a Revolution 13 to gain a small amount of speed but lose all of my standing ability.  I want the ability to stand, despite being able to comfortably fish seated, as fishing on my feet is often advantageous.

 

As for you guys trying to suggest it's some benefit to carry a shorter rod while in a kayak, that's a hindrance for me.  I can't bomb to schooling fish to the extent a man on a casting deck can, as I'm often seated.  When I do stand, I can't put my body into a cast to the extent I could on a large, infinitely stable bass boat.  I can't see myself sacrificing casting distance and leverage for...well.

 

Someone wanna lay out the benefits of mini rods while we're all here?

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3 minutes ago, Hook2Jaw said:

I just can't comfortably lift a leg to operate the pedal drive.

I can't do that either.  I use a free hand to rip off a couple flicks of the fins.  I should probably make a video of this, since I don't hear too much about people doing this.

 

4 minutes ago, Hook2Jaw said:

Someone wanna lay out the benefits of mini rods while we're all here?

A couple, but when fishing vertically.  It's easier to get the bait in cone when using a narrow beam on the graph.  You get better leverage when fighting a fish, as well.  The other application I like a shorter rod for is top water/jerk baits.  It's easier to do the tip down twitch thing with a shorter rod.  You can even do it sitting, with the tip up, and get a rhythm that gets a spook to walk.  It's practice and experimentation, and finding what works. 

 

I've been fishing from a kayak since 2005.  I have also had a couple bass boats, and even a deep-v.  Kayak is probably my favorite way to fish.  I feel way more connected fishing this way.

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I've thought about adding a extension bar to one of the pedal drive legs on the mirage drive. Like a short 2'-3' dowel that would be removable so I wouldn't have to bend over to manipulate the pedal drive for the stroke or two to maintain position. I think I could fabricate something that would fit into the top of the square tubing or over it.  then when not in standing mode just remove and stow in the cockpit.

FM

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15 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I use a free hand to rip off a couple flicks of the fins.

I do this almost every trip, I gotcha.  You probably should make a video.  I can one leg the drive a smidge, it's just not nearly as effective and very difficult to do.

 

15 minutes ago, J Francho said:

A couple, but when fishing vertically.  It's easier to get the bait in cone when using a narrow beam on the graph.  You get better leverage when fighting a fish, as well.  The other application I like a shorter rod for is top water/jerk baits.  It's easier to do the tip down twitch thing with a shorter rod.  You can even do it sitting, with the tip up, and get a rhythm that gets a spook to walk.  It's practice and experimentation, and finding what works.

Oh, I understand the benefits of a shorter rod for jerkbaits and topwater.  My jerkbait and spook rod is 6'7", MF, and the shortest rod in my arsenal.  As far as a graph goes, I don't have one yet but I'm very much looking forward to it.  What length, power, and action would you recommend for drop shotting from a kayak?  I was planning on 7'1" MF for my finesse presentations that involved weight of some sort, dropshot, ned, light shakyhead, etc.  I have a 7'3" MF that I use for weightless flukes and stick worms.

 

I could most definitely be swayed on the rod length for drop shotting and such, and would appreciate the input.

20 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I've been fishing from a kayak since 2005.  I have also had a couple bass boats, and even a deep-v.  Kayak is probably my favorite way to fish.  I feel way more connected fishing this way.

I've been what I consider serious about fishing for the past few years, but back in 2010 I was in my local ponds and rivers in a 10' Sun Dolphin Sit-In.  Kayaking is most definitely my favorite way to fish.  In the past two years I've loaded my kayaks with bass after bass and even battled a good sized king mackerel 6 miles off shore, all on my lonesome.  We kayak anglers may not be as effective in some ways and more effective in others, but we are undoubtedly more badass.

 

7 minutes ago, Fishingmickey said:

I've thought about adding a extension bar to one of the pedal drive legs on the mirage drive. Like a short 2'-3' dowel that would be removable so I wouldn't have to bend over to manipulate the pedal drive for the stroke or two to maintain position. I think I could fabricate something that would fit into the top of the square tubing or over it.  then when not in standing mode just remove and stow in the cockpit.

FM

THIS IS GENIUS.

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I have no less than 8 drop shot rods, lol.  My favorites are Saint Croix Avid AVS63MLXF and AVS63MXF.  I have two copies of each, all saddled with OG Stradic CI4 2500 reels and Seaguar Finesse 7.2#, Invisx 6#, or Tatsu 6# line.

 

Works great on deep structure smallies and "video game" fishing.

20101113-ErieWithNoel-08-XL.jpg

 

20101113-ErieWithNoel-05-X2.jpg

 

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2 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I have no less than 8 drop shot rods, lol.  My favorites are Saint Croix Avid AVS63MLXF and AVS63MXF.  I have two copies of each, all saddled with OG Stradic CI4 2500 reels and Seaguar Finesse 7.2#, Invisx 6#, or Tatsu 6# line.

 

Works great on deep structure smallies and "video game" fishing.

20101113-ErieWithNoel-08-XL.jpg

 

20101113-ErieWithNoel-05-X2.jpg

 

Beautiful Smallmouth J Franco! Almost A-Jayesque.

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@A-Jay has me beat.  The on on top is my PB, a 5-12 from Lake Erie.  My partner boated a six shortly after snapping that picture.

 

Thanks, I keep shooting for that 6# mark, as I am also shooting for an 8 lb. NY large mouth. 

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4 minutes ago, Fishingmickey said:

Beautiful Smallmouth J Franco! Almost A-Jayesque.

 

1 minute ago, J Francho said:

@A-Jay has me beat.  The on on top is my PB, a 5-12 from Lake Erie.  My partner boated a six shortly after snapping that picture.

 

Thanks, I keep shooting for that 6# mark, as I am also shooting for an 8 lb. NY large mouth. 

Nice ~ 

And J you know I've always loved that fish & pic . . 

:smiley:

A-Jay 

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Just now, A-Jay said:

And J you know I've always loved that fish & pic . . 

Here's the other view:

20101113-ErieWithNoel-07-X2.jpg

 

And the "magic bait"

20101113-ErieWithNoel-06-X2.jpg

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That is an absolutely gorgeous fish.  I need to go catch a smallmouth, my first will be my personal best and that's always exciting.  I'm gonna go read some articles on ned, shakyhead, and dropshotting, considering I need a do-all for those presentations as my current finesse rod is a Daiwa Fuego LT 2500D-XH mounted on a 7'3" MF imnotallowedtosayit.  With you rocking what appears to be a whopping 8 dropshot specific rods closer to 6', it seems I might need to step away from the 7'1" I had in mind.

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A lot of people like the longer rods.  I just don't feel the added length is necessary at all.  I mean, look at those stubby deep drop rods saltwater anglers use.  They're like 5' long and all handle, lol.  But they're catching 100+ lb. fish.

 

Learn drop shotting from the master: http://www.richz.com/fishing/articles/dropshot.html

 

 

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After reading that article, and quite a few before it, I've come to the conclusion that I should probably shorten up my dropshot, Ned, and shakyhead stick to a 6'7" MF donttalkabouthatcompany on a second Daiwa Fuego LT, as I love that reel, but this time the 2500D that just reels in 29" IPT instead of the quick beast that is my 2500D-XH.  That sucker picks up 34" IPT.  The other benefit to the 6'7" spinner is I can branch into light jerkbaits and cranks with the very same rod.

 

Thanks, everyone!  I started with worrying about my rod for pitching and we're on the absolute other end of the spectrum, finesse.

 

When we gonna get a Kayak Fishing forum, @J Francho?

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1 minute ago, Hook2Jaw said:

That sucker picks up 34" IPT

That's why I went with the Stradic, 35 IPT.  Helps when they rocket to the surface.

 

2 minutes ago, Hook2Jaw said:

When we gonna get a Kayak Fishing forum, @J Francho?

Probably not, there's too many categories as it is.  There's plenty of kayak action in here:

https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/forum/10-bass-boats-canoes-kayaks-and-more/

 

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Getting back to the rod length topic. I like to fish 7' rod's or better from the kayak. The main reason being is if I have the fish go under the boat I can easily reach around the bow to change sides and keep up with the fish. I can see some advantages to having a shorter rod. When working in close quarters you can get enough swing to cast with and fishing a jerk bait or walk the dog retrieve would be easier.

Fishingmickey 

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Let me make clear I do not fish from a yak.  :PI have but I do not do it on a regular basis.  I tutored my brother in law on bass fishing and he uses a yak only.  I set him up with 7 foot plus rods because that is what I use.  After a while he complained of lost fish.  I followed him in my boat to get a better idea of how he was fishing.  His yak is a sit-on style, he does not stand up.  When I watched him it was obvious that the longer rods really weakened his hookset.  Especially with a t-rigged senko where you need to move the hook through a lot of the bait.   Re-outfitted him with much shorter rods and his catch rate went up dramatically.  

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