Michigan Largemouth Bass Record ?

[Mbirdsley]

I’m sure you could contact the Michigan Department of natural resources and get the master angler files and than the creel data for lakes you want to research.  State record has to be verified on certified scales and than by a biologist.  I dunno if you could get away with taking a picture of the fish on certified scales or not. 

 

  I would imagine all the master angler stuff would be located in Lansing.  The creel data could also be found in Lansing as well as the field offices scattered through out the state. That is where I would start.  Could be a fun project 

[A-Jay]

18 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

Okay so where is the actual evidence, information or paperwork that shows: who caught the 11.94 lb bass in 1934 and 1959 ? Who was the Biologist who verified ? Where or how was the Bass weighed ? Where are the pictures ? Why have no other Double Digit Largemouth been reported in Michigan in 60 years ? When some or all of this stuff starts to emerge , I will be more inclined to believe the MI State Largemouth Record : ) Also after talking with my Mom , who was born in 1955. We determined that if the person who caught the 1959 Largemouth Bass from Alcona was 30 or younger when they caught the fish, they could technically still be alive today and/or have children or grandchildren who are alive. So shouldn’t someone have a photo or a story about that catch ?

Despite living in the day & age of digital and immediate information - I believe that 'the facts' or truth, you are asking and perhaps ultimately looking for, is long gone and forgotten.  It may end up remaining that way.  

Back in the day (we won't say exactly when that may have been) looking back at those old records was part of the Lore & History of Fishing.  As is bound to happen, times have changed, quite a bit.  Facts, figures, photo's, video & proof, rule the present day record keepers, very little of which may have been even a small part of what we're discussing here.

In the end, I'm OK with it.  If an angler were to catch that magic Mama that would surpass the current 'record' you can be certain that ALL of the proof in the world would need to be displayed - and beyond a shadow of a doubt, in order for it to be recognized as the new state record.  I'd love to see it happen, though I will admit to being a bit skeptic in both the validity of the current record as well as the potential for a fish from this state that would be bigger. 

 Said this before but  IMO the 9.98 lb state record smallmouth has a much better chance of being bested, perhaps a couple of times, before a 12 lb green bass shows up.

A-Jay

 

[12poundbass]

I emailed the MIDNR fisheries department inquiring about any information they may have about these two fish and the couple of Master Angler submissions the previous two years that were the same or longer than the two state record largemouth. I guess we will see IF I get a response back and/or IF they have any further information on them besides length and weight. 

[redmeansdistortion]

There are probably very few double digit bass in our state.  The largest largemouth I ever caught was at Spencer Park in Rochester Hills about 25 years ago and it was 5lb 9oz.  Outside of that one, the rest were under 4lb.  Smallmouth now, I've caught far more big smallies than I have largemouth.  I consistently catch 5lb smallmouth all season long and even one or two per year over 6lb.

[J.Vincent]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

I emailed the MIDNR fisheries department inquiring about any information they may have about these two fish and the couple of Master Angler submissions the previous two years that were the same or longer than the two state record largemouth. I guess we will see IF I get a response back and/or IF they have any further information on them besides length and weight. 

Awesome, I was just getting ready to do more research and email them. But you beat me to it , hopefully they reply back soon. 

 

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

I believe that 'the facts' or truth, you are asking and perhaps ultimately looking for, is long gone and forgotten. 

Ajay , I agree with respect to the 1934 catch, it’s likely a catch that long ago would not be accompanied with supporting stories and proof but instead are just reduced to fishing folklore....but it would be a shame if there were no evidence or news articles remaining about an 11.94lb Michigan Largemouth caught in 1959....considering hand written statistics on paper and articles in newspapers or magazines about Baseball and other sports go back much early than 1959 and I can think of nothing more American than Baseball and Bass Fishing .....so I still have to rationalize that someone had to care enough to save some other type of evidence supporting the 1959 catch....unless of course it was all a ploy to generate population growth and tourism or some way to prove to the public that Hydro-Electric Dams don’t negatively affect the ecology. (I’m not a conspiracy theorist : ) but right now that is one of my theories, and I’m starting to feel like Ace Ventura Fish Detective : )

[redmeansdistortion]

Wasn't that record bass from 1959 caught in Fletcher's Pond?  

[12poundbass]

So I did a little digging on my lunch. I didn’t come up with much but a couple names. 

William J Maloney is the one who caught the Big Pine bass in ‘34

 

Jack Rorex is the one who caught the second bass it says Bamfield dam. I look that up and everything takes me to Alvina dam.

 

Mr. Maloney in regards to the record only brings up his name for the record (no surprise). I did find a Jack Rorex who was born in Detroit would’ve been 34 I believe when fish number two was caught. He moved to Florida later on. He passed away in 2013 (I believe it was) in his obituary it said he was an avid hunter and fisherman, so this could be our guy. He has children who are in Florida. Anyone with Facebook willing to run the ground ball out? 

 

That’s all I’ve been able to come up with so far.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

So I did a little digging on my lunch. I didn’t come up with much but a couple names. 

William J Maloney is the one who caught the Big Pine bass in ‘34

 

Jack Rorex is the one who caught the second bass it says Bamfield dam. I look that up and everything takes me to Alvina dam.

 

Mr. Maloney in regards to the record only brings up his name for the record (no surprise). I did find a Jack Rorex who was born in Detroit would’ve been 34 I believe when fish number two was caught. He moved to Florida later on. He passed away in 2013 (I believe it was) in his obituary it said he was an avid hunter and fisherman, so this could be our guy. He has children who are in Florida. Anyone with Facebook willing to run the ground ball out? 

 

That’s all I’ve been able to come up with so far.

Nice work but perhaps this may be more of a January project than a June thing . . . .

Despite the current deluge I mean.

 

A-Jay

[J.Vincent]

2 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

So I did a little digging on my lunch. I didn’t come up with much but a couple names. 

William J Maloney is the one who caught the Big Pine bass in ‘34

 

Jack Rorex is the one who caught the second bass it says Bamfield dam. I look that up and everything takes me to Alvina dam.

 

Mr. Maloney in regards to the record only brings up his name for the record (no surprise). I did find a Jack Rorex who was born in Detroit would’ve been 34 I believe when fish number two was caught. He moved to Florida later on. He passed away in 2013 (I believe it was) in his obituary it said he was an avid hunter and fisherman, so this could be our guy. He has children who are in Florida. Anyone with Facebook willing to run the ground ball out? 

 

That’s all I’ve been able to come up with so far.

This is really good , so here is where Bamfield Dam is: its at the South East End of Alcona Dam Pond on Bamfield Road. The hydro-electric Dam was built there in 1924, and the Dam may have been known by a few different names.

[Mbirdsley]

I wonder if Michigan United Conservation clubs (M.U.C.C ) or Michigan out of doors would have any info.  For a long time they were the premier Michigan outdoor news source 

[J.Vincent]

50 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

Anyone with Facebook willing to run the ground ball out? 

I don’t get on Facebook much but I can try and do some research through another avenue.

[MIbassyaker]

The smallmouth record in MI may be one of the most vulnerable state records in the country right now, while the largemouth record may be one of the least. 

 

Not that I've been exhaustive or anything, but I haven't come across any actual report of a confirmed largemouth exceeding 9lb in MI (other than the current record fish) in any of the records I've looked through -- Master Angler Entries, survey reports, MTIFS -- and that would still be 3 lb short of the record. 7s and 8s are rare enough. Maybe that 26inch MA entry from Fletchers got close, but we'll never know (and length-to-weight conversion tables I've seen tend to overestimate weight for most of the bass I catch here, at least)

 

The Tournament Data from the MTIFS system is worth looking at to get a sense of big-fish expectations statewide.

Reports for the last 3 years are available.

2016

2017

2018

If we look just for fish over 7lbs weighed in tournaments, there were only 9 reported: 1 in 2016, 3 in 2017, and 5 in 2018.  Of these, four have been over 8lbs (1 in 2017, 3 in 2018). It doesn't say which species, but about 3/4 of all bass weighed across the three reports are largemouth, and we might be able to guess a few based on the body of water.  (I don't believe Jordan Lake in Barry County has smallmouth, so the 7lb entries in 2017 and 2018 are probably largemouth, possibly even the same fish).

 

I think the stars would really have to align just right for a largemouth to survive enough seasons to reach DD level.  The growing seasons are short, and there is always some risk of winterkill in many shallow, eutrophic largemouth haunts.  It also doesn't help that the most of prime largemouth waters in the state are where most of the people live, as this means largemouth are probably more subject to harvest pressure from casual anglers than smallmouth are. Largemouth are probably also easier to catch year-round, as they tend to inhabit smaller, easier-to access (and easier to fish) waters. And a bass doesn't need to be harvested to have it's life shortened by being caught, if it is gut- or gill-hooked, handled roughly, kept out of the water too long, or otherwise mistreated in some way.

[MIbassyaker]

Actually, scratch that -- the catch and keep master angler records have weights, and there are some 9s...and a DD (although it was 20 years ago):

 

Catch and Keep     LARGEMOUTH BASS     Houghton     Lake On Three    7/11/2004 8:00:00 PM    2004    9.06    24.00    CLINT JOYNER    LAPEER    Spincasting    BERKLY POWER TUBE

 

Catch and Keep     LARGEMOUTH BASS     Kalamazoo     Limekiln Lake    7/3/1999 7:40:00 AM    1999    10.00    25.50    MICHAEL JAY DOWNEY    PORTAGE    Baitcasting    BROWN LIZARD

 

Catch and Keep     LARGEMOUTH BASS     Kalamazoo     Limekiln Lake    7/8/1995 7:40:00 AM    1995    9.12    26.00    Michael J. Downey    Kalamazoo    Baitcasting    7" Power Lizard

 

Catch and Keep     LARGEMOUTH BASS     Kalamazoo     Mill Pond    7/5/1997 9:45:00 PM    1997    9.25    24.25    MICHAEL JAY DOWNEY    PORTAGE    Baitcasting    Live Bull Frog

 

https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/masterangler/MasterAngler.asp

 

So there you go: Go to Kalamazoo County in July with a plastic lizard and you may get a DD Largemouth.  Actually, look at the 10 and the 9.12 below: same guy, same lake, same bait, 4 years apart. Catch and keep , so it can't be the same fish...

 

Also, the lengths here are are 24-26 inches, so those 26+ inch bass on the Catch&Release list look more promising than I thought.

[J.Vincent]

@MIbassyaker those are solid statistics and it Looks like I under- estimated the potential here in Michigan ! But its amazing, nobody in Michigan has reported a Double Digit since 1999....and of the fish you listed they were all caught in July , and that is generally Post Spawn !

[MIbassyaker]

11 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

@MIbassyaker those are solid statistics and it Looks like I under- estimated the potential here in Michigan ! But its amazing, nobody in Michigan has reported a Double Digit since 1999....and of the fish you listed they were all caught in July , and that is generally Post Spawn !

 

Yeah, they're not spawners, for sure. Beginning of July in Ka'zoo would correspond to about what the in-fisherman calendar calls the "summer peak". 

[12poundbass]

Nice work @MIbassyaker I figured you’d join in on the ‘quest’ we’ll call it. 

 

So a bass that is 24-26” weighs 9-10 lbs in The post spawn season of July, how much weight can she add when she’s full of eggs? 

[dgkasper58]

2 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Nice work @MIbassyaker I figured you’d join in on the ‘quest’ we’ll call it. 

 

So a bass that is 24-26” weighs 9-10 lbs in The post spawn season of July, how much weight can she add when she’s full of eggs? 

Big!

 

On a side note. There probably are a few 10 # LMB and SMB out there.  Now to catch em.

 

SMB is definitely going down soon.

[MIbassyaker]

2 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Nice work @MIbassyaker I figured you’d join in on the ‘quest’ we’ll call it. 

 

So a bass that is 24-26” weighs 9-10 lbs in The post spawn season of July, how much weight can she add when she’s full of eggs? 

 

Well, to be clear, there are a few dozen entries 24" or longer, and most with reported weights are in the 6-8lb range, and more 6s than anything. The longest entry (28.75") is listed as 6.5lb. So weights of bass with these lengths are highly variable (depends on girth, of course) -- we can say a 24"-26" could reach 9-10lb, but that's the high end of the range. Maybe that 10lber ate a muskrat right before it got caught....

[BASSnRacks]

I happen to see Clint’s dad every so often. I would like to see if I can get the story and some pics from him, as I am curious about this as well. I do know Clint is a very good stick and fishes in the flw. https://www.flwfishing.com/news/2018-08-06-hudson-s-culler-wins-t-h-marine-flw-bass-fishing-league-michigan-division-tournament-on-michigan-s-muskegon-lake

[12poundbass]

Ok gentlemen I heard back from two state biologist from the MIDNR. The first one basically talked about the smallmouth bass record. He was actually one of the biologist who recorded the Current smallmouth record that came from Indian River. He did forward me over to another fisheries biologist and she was more helpful to an extent. As we all kind of figured there isn’t much info regarding the two bass in question. So here is the email she sent me this afternoon.

 

 

 

Jeremy,

 

My name is Lynne Thoma and I work in Lansing. I know you have heard from Tim Cwalinski in Gaylord as well.  I have been the coordinator of the Master Angler for the last 8 years when the program was assigned to me.  The staff member that was here when the program was started back in 1973 has retired.  While not all state records have the girth listed, I was able to find those measurements for the bass.    

 

As for the two current state record largemouth bass, there is very little information on them as both fish were caught before the Master Angler Program was started in 1973 and records were not kept back in the 30’s and 50’s like they are now.  Here is what I can tell you:

 

1934 / Fish was caught in Big Pine Island Like, Kent County on June 25^th / weight 11.15 lbs / length 27” / girth 25.75”. 

 

1959 / Fish was caught in backwaters of the Bamfield Dam, Oscoda Co on September 5^th / weight 11.15 lbs / length 26” / girth 22.50.

 

Sorry, but this is all the information we have.  Those that worked for Fish Division and verified these fish back then are no longer with us so we have no one to ask or talk to.  We only have the few facts that were documented and I have shared those with you.

 

As for the state record smallmouth bass, here is some comparison.  As you can see, the length and girth on the largemouth bass was quite a bit bigger which would seem to justify the weight difference.

 

2016 / Indian River on September 11 / weight 9.98 lbs / length 23.10” / girth 16.9”.

 

2015 / Hubbard Lake on October 18 / weight 9.33 lbs / Length 24.5” / girth 18.5”  

 

I hope this information helps.

 

Lynne Thoma

DNR Fisheries Division

 

[A-Jay]

Nice work Inspector Clouseau ~

Unfortunate that there isn't more info available.

Really looking forward to seeing one or both of those records falling, hopefully sooner rather than later.

A-Jay

[12poundbass]

31 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Nice work Inspector Clouseau ~

Unfortunate that there isn't more info available.

Really looking forward to seeing one or both of those records falling, hopefully sooner rather than later.

A-Jay

The difference in girth between the two yet they both weight the same is interesting to me.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

The difference in girth between the two yet they both weight the same is interesting to me.

I had them both beat on girth but lacked an inch or so of length.

Made all the difference.

A-Jay

[J.Vincent]

2 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

1934 / Fish was caught in Big Pine Island Like, Kent County on June 25^th / weight 11.15 lbs / length 27” / girth 25.75”. 

 

1959 / Fish was caught in backwaters of the Bamfield Dam, Oscoda Co on September 5^th / weight 11.15 lbs / length 26” / girth 22.50.

If these are accurate statistics ; Is it actually possible a shorter Largemouth Bass with Less Girth could weigh the same as a longer LMB with more girth ? And has anyone plugged these numbers into the mathematical projection equation ? Something smells fishy (in other words it doesn’t add up )

[Scott F]

5 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

If these are accurate statistics ; Is it actually possible a shorter Largemouth Bass with Less Girth could weigh the same as a longer LMB with more girth ? And has anyone plugged these numbers into the mathematical projection equation ? Something smells fishy (in other words it doesn’t add up )

The longer bass may have had an empty stomach, and the shorter one may have been full from a meal, full of eggs ready to spawn, or even had weights inserted to boost its weight.  Back in the day, guides were sometimes known for putting lead in fish to increase the weight and give a boost to their reputation to help their guiding business. We will never know for sure.