Super User Way2slow Posted January 14, 2020 Super User Posted January 14, 2020 Couple of weeks ago, I decided it was time to retire my old Remington 552. A few hundred thousand rounds threw it has just about gotten all the goody out of it. I was thinking I would try a Marlin 60, they're cheap ($160 or so), have a reputation for being accurate and hold up reasonable well. Started calling around looking for one, no new ones to be had. I thought then, may as well get Marlin 60SB with the stainless steel barrel so I could keep it behind the seat of my truck and not have to worry too much about the rust. Again, not a new one to be had. I called a couple of pawn shops and one had a used one, for $200, the cost of a new one, I told him what he could do with that one. Finally found a model 60SS, Stainless steel with a laminated stock, $250, I bought that one, so now my $160 rifle has gone to $265 with taxes. After getting a bore brush out of the barrel left in by the factory, cleaning it and checking it out, I take it to shoot it. You dang near needed a pair of pliers to squeeze (let me rephrase that) PULL like H*** on the trigger. So, $50 worth of parts and a day of taking it apart a dozen times as I make modifications, I finally get it to a nice and smooth 2.2 pounds. Was going for 2.5 but that last little bit from 2.9 took it to 2.2. Now my $160 rifle is a $315 rifle. The semi-buckhorn rear sight on the thing totally sucks, my eyes are getting old so I decide to put a small scope. Put a 1-4x24 that I had on with an old set of dovetail rings I had. When shooting it, I keep have to adjust elevation of windage, but I would check my marks on the scope and they were good. It took about a 100 rounds for dummy me to check the dovetail rings, they had slid at least 1/2" and not matter how much I tried to tighten them, the kept sliding. I gave up and ordered and picatinny rail adapter for it for $29 with shipping, and pick up locally a set of rings for it, another $20. Now my $160 is up to $354. Installing the picatinny rail, it didn't fit, way too wide, so have to send that one back, and support from that company was useless so ordering one from another company for $39 with shipping and tax. Also decided I didn't like the scope I had so I order a new 2.5-10x36 on clearance for $90. So now my $160 is up to about $450. During all this, when shooting it, it shot like crap. I noticed the stock was not fitting properly against the barrel and pressing it to one side. I had to sand that out to get the barrel free floated and then add me a pressure point about two inches back from the end. I tried it free floated and that was bad also. Now standing up and shooting off the tool box on my truck with a bipod, it shot those cheap Remington Thunderbolts I bought for $14 per 500 box into a one inch circle at 50 yards, Two 14 round magazines full and only three bullets about 1/8" outside that quarter size black dot. I called that good enough. So, now with almost two weeks of work and $450 into my $160 I was going to spend to retire my Remington, I'm almost there, if that new rail adapter works when it gets here. 1 Quote
Super User Catt Posted January 15, 2020 Super User Posted January 15, 2020 Ain't nothing cheap anymore ? Quote
Super User jimmyjoe Posted January 15, 2020 Super User Posted January 15, 2020 You always pay for what you get, but you don't always get what you pay for. jj Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 15, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 15, 2020 Yea, it's like I tell my wife, no matter what it is I want to do, figure up what I think it's going to cost, and then multiply that number by three. For the past couple of years, that formula has been pretty close. Then a lot of times it just my nature. There is very little I can settle on doing half-a**, and as the old saying goes, it usually cost more do it the way it should be done. Just like a scope I first ordered for it. I ordered a cheap something called a Hammer's for $45 in a 3-9x because it was silver to match the barrel and receiver, and it came with the dovetail rings. Before it ever made it to the house, I knew there was no way I was going to use a cheap POS like that. I turned around and ordered a $180 Bushnell on clearance for $90 because it's their last years discontinued model. Then I found the same scope calibrated for a 17 cal, for $53 to my door. I ordered two of those, they come with one turret calibrated for the caliber, but still come with a standard turret and a blank turret, one for my 10/22 Take Down and one just in case I found a need for it. I'll find some one to give that first cheap thing to. So actually counting all the extra scopes I ended up with, I could add another $150 to it. I could have done it with out the $50 I spent on trigger parts, but before I start taking a chance on ruining parts, especially in a new rifle, I like to have a replacement part in hand. Ended up, I now have $50 worth of spare parts for it. 1 Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 Should a just hunted around for a CZ 452. IMO it's one of the best rifles ever produced. 1 Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 23, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 23, 2020 Actually, I'm at the point of the old saying, buy cheap sh**, get cheap sh**. The cost of the rifle has increased another $120 because the barrel was total junk. Apparently on those things they don't do any normalizing or stress relief after rifling it. You never knew where the first few bullets were going to hit and then, as you shot it would gradually walk them to the target. After about 15 rounds it would shoot pretty good, unless you stopped shooting for a few minutes. There is not much to be found in the way of an aftermarket barrel because they press the barrel into the receiver and use a round pin through the top edge to hold it. So, getting the barrel out without putting enough heat on the receiver to destroy that finish on it, wasn't going to happen. I sent the barreled receiver off to 300 Below and see how their cryo process works. I've never tried it but know a few that have and read tons of good reviews on them. I'm actually looking at a CZ-457 if this doesn't work. Started to ditch this one and get one but was wanting a semi to replace my Remington 552. That's the main rifle I use for my instinct shooting and this Marlin was similar in size and shape as it. Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 The CZ 511 is a highly accurate rifle. Cz new offerings is nowhere near the same as the older BRNO stuff. Quote
BassinCNY Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 Sorry to hear your problems. I bought one a few months ago too just as an impulse purchase. I went with the cheap $160 plain Jane model though. I've only taken it out plinking a few times but I've been really happy with it. I took off the cheap scope it came with and just use the iron sights. They were right on out of the box. All I had to do was adjust the elevation one notch. I've only put a few hundred rounds through it but so far so good. Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 55 minutes ago, BassinCNY said: Sorry to hear your problems. I bought one a few months ago too just as an impulse purchase. I went with the cheap $160 plain Jane model though. I've only taken it out plinking a few times but I've been really happy with it. I took off the cheap scope it came with and just use the iron sights. They were right on out of the box. All I had to do was adjust the elevation one notch. I've only put a few hundred rounds through it but so far so good. Your "really happy" and others may vary quite a bit. When you're talking rimfires, my "really happy" is one hole groups lol Quote
BassinCNY Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 Exactly. My really happy is plinking a steel chicken target at 30 yards. Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 23, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 23, 2020 May be something with the carbon steel barrel doesn't stress as bad as the stainless. Most people go for the $160 carbon steel barrel and other than the massive trigger pull all Model 60's have, most seem rather happy with them, that's why I decided to buy such a cheap rifle. Of course, no one had the cheap and the only one I could find in stock anywhere withing 50 miles was the one model 60SS. Here's an example of what I'm chasing. This was at 100 yards. This was a 15 shot string that actually started on the target to the left of this one. It walked them across just like you see here, putting the last shot in the bull. A funny note this, the company I shipped it to emailed me a brochure with my order number. There was a guy that posted almost the same exact group on a target his rifle did before them freezing it. Quote
Super User jimmyjoe Posted January 23, 2020 Super User Posted January 23, 2020 Anyone with questions about rimfires should go to rimfirecentral, and read up for a few hours .... or months. Lotsa good info there, no matter what makes you happy. jj Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 24, 2020 Posted January 24, 2020 Yeah an excellent site for sure! Last I checked I had over 5k posts in that site. At one time, I breathed rimfires. Quote
FordsnFishin Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 I've got a regular blued marlin 60. Fantastic long rifle. Had it for years and thousands of rounds through it. Buddy has the ss version. Nothing but problems from it. Quote
CountryboyinDC Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 @Way2slow what did you do to the trigger to get it to a manageable pull weight? My platoon gave me one when I left the service, and I'd like to have it be the first gun my son shoots. The only fix I've seen for pull weight would be a trip to the gunsmith for me (I see there's a fix for takeup that's pretty drop in). https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143780#/topics/143780 Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 29, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 29, 2020 There are several different concepts. Probably one of the better sources of information is a guy that goes by arrowdodger that has videos on youtube that will teach you almost anything you want to know about the Marlin 60. What I did since I didn't want to start destroying parts, I started by ordering the M*Carbo spring kit https://www.mcarbo.com/store/p/27-Marlin-60-Trigger-Spring-Kit.aspx they have a video showing how to install it. That only brings it down to a little over four pounds. After that, I used Flitz to polish all contact surfaces involved with the trigger, that smoothed it up some but only drop it a couple of ounces. To go any lower than this will required some patience, a diamond file I had to grind one edge on to about a 30 degree angle and several times of taking the trigger assembly apart. I modified the hammer. Being a new rifle, I didn't want to take a chance on screwing it up without having a new part so I ordered a new hammer as backup. Didn't need it when done, but there was always that possibility. The major cause of the hard trigger pull is the way the hammer and sear are designed. You will notice the sear is cut on and upward angle where it contacts the hammer. If you look closely at the hammer, you will see it's also cut at a slight angle so it locks in over the sear. When you pull the trigger, you are having to raise the hammer ever so slightly to make it clear the sear. The stronger the hammer spring, the more pressure it takes to lift the hammer, meaning the greater the trigger pull. The kit gives you a weaker spring. Some cut turns out of the hammer spring. I didn't want to cut the spring, if you get it too weak, you can start running into misfire problems. A WORD OF CAUTION: ANTHING BEYOUND THIS POINT CAN CREAT AN UNCONTROLABLE, FULLY AUTOMATIC RIFLE OR ONE THAT CAN ACCIDENTLY DISCHARGE IF DROPPED OR BUMPED. To correct this problem, I chose to modify the hammer, since it's the main cause of the problem. Taking enough of that sharp edge of the sear off and making it flat on top until the hammer is sitting on the flat and then removing metal from the edge of that flat so it doesn't have as much distance to travel will get the pull where you want it. This would be much easier than modifying the hammer but, this is also going to make the up into the bolt path so it's possible the bolt will drag on it when going back forward and cause possible feed problems. To avoid this, I chose to modify the hammer. You may want to try the sear, your call. The route I took was to flatten the contact surface on the hammer and reduce it's size. The only thing that is going to work for this because of the very narrow space and small surface you are working on is a diamond file (I used a 400 grit with one edge ground to a chisel edge) .https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Diamond-Coated-Flat-File-Set-6-Different-Grits/232494117370?hash=item3621bab1fa:g:RAYAAOSwY~1aAjFG The hammer is too hard for a hardened steel fil to cut and sand paper is not going to get in there and keep it flat. The first thing I did was to flatten the knife edge of the sear just slightly and took a little of the edge against the hammer. This was just to give it a little larger wear surface. When I say a little, I probably had no more than a .010" flat surface on top of the sear. Then I did the hammer. I used 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a hard flat surface and drag that front edge of the hammer over it, maintain it's shape and reduced that face by .020". Then I used the file I ground to slowly take some of that angle off the matting surface. I must have put that hammer in and out a dozen times. I was going for a 2.5# pull, and was at 2.8, just a slight more to get it to 2.5 took it to 2.2, so be slow and careful. That's why I ordered a new hammer before I started. To make sure I had one if things went south on me. I probably put a 1000 rounds through it since doing the trigger, and it still functioned perfectly. The barreled action will be back from 300 Below tomorrow, so hopefully it will put two bullets in a row close to the same spot now. Mine was the stainless steel barrel and had a terrible problem with walking the bullets until it had about 15 rounds to warm the barrel a little. I've got more time in trying to get this thing to shoot that I put into a custom build of a 700 action. It came out of the box with a lot of problems typical to cheap guns. One other thing, this is a source for upgrade parts https://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3603 I first bought M*Carbo's picatinny rail adapter and it was machined way too wide and had to send it back. I ordered the one from DIP and it fit perfectly. They also had the silver to match my receiver, but they are $10 more expensive. Also, the trigger upgrade, I liked the one in the rifle so if you like it, you can drill and tap yours for a set screw. Also notice the setscrew has to be off center to the left to match up with the disconnect. I used a 6-32x3/4" but after I finished all the mods I've had to do, Pilar post bedding the action, sanding the barrel channel so it's not pressing against the barrel and bedding it, it end up the set screw is back almost back to the trigger and does very little. So, if you have more free travel that you like, you can do the setscrew for very little versus a high price trigger with the setscrew. Two things about the trigger, after changing it, make sure it does not fire on safe, if it does, back it out a little until it doesn't. Also, if you have a problem with it not cocking, locking the hammer back, back it out just a little until it locks back every time. One other word of caution, never put the trigger assembly in the action without the bolt being locked back. It bends that little wire they use for the ejector and make it where it won't eject the shells. If you haven't read the manual, you lock the bolt back by pushing in on the charge handle when the bolt is pulled back. 1 Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 I'm sure you know by now but for a few $ more, a Ruger 10-22 would have been a better starting point with a massive aftermarket list to choose from. Marlin 60's make for a decent squirrel gun but that out it. Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 29, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 29, 2020 Yep, I have 10/22 Take Down and bought my granddaughter a 10/22 carbine. I was just looking for a "cheap" semi, that had similar lines and feel as my 552. The Marline has a reputation for being accurate so I figured I would give it a try. Apparently the accurate ones are the carbon steel barrels or most peoples definition of accurate is not the same as mine. I guess it's accurate if it will hit a coke can at 50 feet. Anyway, another lesson learned about the old saying "buy cheap ****, get cheap ****). Now it's just down to the challenge of taking the cheap POS and seeing if I can make a shooter out of it. I like the looks and feel of it, but if I can't get it to shoot one inch groups or very close to that at 50 yards, I will never be happy with it. Right now, I would be happy with it putting the first shot from a cold clean barrel within two inches of the 10th shot, before I shipped it off, it wouldn't put them within four inches of each other. One thing, I was reading the manual to see if they said anything about torqueing the action screws, which they don't but read one very funny statement they make. They do not recommend cleaning the barrel. Says that right in the manual. Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 Yup I've owned a few marlin rimfires and it definitely says that in the manual which really shocked me. But I've seen countless barrels that shoot better dirty than clean because of loose rifling. Have you looked at the barrels crown? I've seen firsthand of minor flaws causing big issues. Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 29, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 29, 2020 When I get it back tomorrow, I have brass laps that are domed on the end made to lap the crowns. I'm going to lap that one before I shoot it. It's not "bad" but it's not a crisp, sharp edge like I like to see so I'm giving it a little TLC. There's still a couple of things I have in mind. I have always said I could make any rifle shoot better, gonna see if I can't keep this one from making a liar out of me. The only Marlin I've ever owned was my first deer rifle, a 336C. I got it because I thought it looked cool back when I was 16. Finally got tired of having to shoot them more than once or having to look for them and bought me a 6mm. Never had one move out of it's tracks with that one. I fixed a Glenfield that my dad found where this one should been, in a dumpster. But that was years ago, and other than getting it where it would shoot and eject a shell, I didn't shoot that one enough to know anything about it's accuracy. I've never use the cryo treatment on a barrel, so I'm kind of anxious to see how this goes when I get it back. I might start making it a standard practice on all my barrels. I just received my Go/No-Go gauges for a Tikka action I'm building one out of. Might hold off installing the barrel and send it off if I like the results from this Marlin barrel. I've heard nothing but good things about the 300 Below's work. 1 Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 Tikka! Next to CZ, Tikka is my favorite rifle platform. They're very good shooters straight outta the box. Sounds like you're doing all the right things to get the Marlin to shoot well. It's unfortunate though that all this money and time is going into a Marlin 60. They're almost unsellable used unless you practially give them away. But I certainly understand the challenge and a feller has to have something he enjoys to do even if it costs ya a little money. I went through the same thing on a Henry lever action a few years ago. Cool little rifles but they're not meant to be accurate. Once you get use to shooting a real CZ or anschutz rimfire, it's hard to shoot anything else. I also built many 10-22's in the day that would leave one ragged hole. Quote
Russ E Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 I had an old marlin lever action 22 that never failed and was a tack driver. don't remember the model, it was 30 years ago.I traded it for another gun. My favorite 22 is the good old ruger 10/22. I have put thousands of rounds through my current one without an issue. It will literally shoot the nastiest cheapest ammo without any problems. .It is also a tack driver. I think it costs around $250.00 10 years ago. My ruger 22/45 pistol will only fire a couple brands of ammo without jamming. Quote
CountryboyinDC Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 @Way2slowI think I may start with the M Cabo spring kit. I only came across the kit that fixed the take-up, which isn't a big deal for the one I have Getting it to 4-5 lbs. would be a significant improvement. The YouTuber you mentioned and your instructions will be a huge help, thanks so much. I have a few other .22s ranging from a Walther 98k pattern single shot training rifle my grandfather brought back during WWII to an Anschutz with a nice aperture sight I bought for my wife (she shot 3 position in college), but this has sentimental reasons for wanting to get this one tuned. @SuperDuty, the other rifles you mentioned are good ones (I owned one of the 10/22s Jim Clark's shop bedded and barreled for me), but this is one that's special because of the folks that gave it to me. Some of them are no longer with us, and the fact that they had it engraved with my call sign and name makes it irreplaceable to me. Quote
SuperDuty Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 @CountryboyinDC that was very nice of your friends to do for you. And I'd never sell it either. Value isn't always a material thing. That memory is priceless! Quote
Super User Way2slow Posted January 30, 2020 Author Super User Posted January 30, 2020 Looking at the picture, that looks like the model with the SS barrel and regular wood stock. The same as mine but mine has a fancy laminated stock. That also looks like the same Hammers scope I ordered that came with the rings I never put on. Right after ordering it, I ordered and Bushnell instead, pitched that one under the work bench. I sure hope yours shoot a lot better than mine did out of the box. You have a hard row to plow if it's like mine. SuperDuty, I also have a Henry Golden boy granddaughter gave me. Don't know how it shoots, haven't really tried it. Only had it about a year or so. All I can say about it, it's pretty. CountryboyinDC. One thing. if those rings don't have a setscrew in the center to lock them in place, Be sure to mark them so you can tell if they slide in the dovetail. That's a major problem with dovetail mounts, they are extremely difficult to keep them from sliding on the Model 60 for some reason. Quote
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