Old Town Autopilot 120 Power Questions

[Koz]

I pulled the trigger and bought an Old Town Autopilot 120 yesterday and it will be here within the next week or so. In the meantime I'm planning out how I want to set this up and deciding what other equipment I will need.

 

I already have a 100ah lithium ion battery that I will be using to power the trolling motor. For those of you running that battery size, does that last you all day? What kind of total range do you have running that? Are you running wide open between spots or taking your time? Do you ever feel the need to add a second 100ah battery to extend your range and time on the water? At times I'll be running 5-7 miles away from where I launch at my house. Is that pushing it?

 

ON my current pedal drive I use a 10ah LIPO to power my 7" Humminbird Helix with down imaging and side imaging. I've never had a problem running out of juice fishing all day. My thought is I would also connect my navigation lights to this battery as well. I could just run them off the main battery, but I'm thinking that I want every last bit of juice that I can get out of the main battery for the trolling motor.

 

I may also add some deck lighting so I can see what I'm doing when I change baits or need to unbutton a fish. With that, I was looking at the Yak Power YP-RP5R (I don't need the more advanced bluetooth option) switching system to go along with the Yak Power navigation lights. The idea is that I could use the switching unit to power up my Humminbird and the lights as needed. If the draw ends up being too much I could upgrade to a 20ah LIPO.

 

Does anyone have experience with the Yak Power gear? I've seen mixed reviews on their hardware.

 

Somewhere down the road I might add FFS and a Power Pole, and at that time I'd need a major upgrade on the second battery but I'll worry about that later.

 

I'd be interested in hearing how other Autopilot owners have set up their electronics and lighting systems. Thanks.

[MN Fisher]

Dude - talk to @FryDog62 about his autopilot...Chris can probably help you more than most.

[Darth-Baiter]

Nav lights, I went with the wireless version that Guardian Angel makes.  I like how they are multitaskers.  I take them and stick them to various things if I need light.  like if I had to change a tire In the dark, no problem.  

[Koz]

2 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

Nav lights, I went with the wireless version that Guardian Angel makes.  I like how they are multitaskers.  I take them and stick them to various things if I need light.  like if I had to change a tire In the dark, no problem.  

I had looked at those, but they sit up above the rail and the way they are designed I will see both lights in front of me from my seat and that will probably disturb my night vision. That's why I prefer the port and starboard lights to be below the rail.

[casts_by_fly]

I run an 80 ah for the battery and heading puck, then a 30 for the fish finder and nav lights.  I’m running a helix 9 and mega live.  When I had the helix 7, I went straight to the 30 ah after a 10ah lead acid died after a couple hours (figuring I’d need it eventually). 
 

I fish lakes from 30 acres up to 2700. Depending on the lake and the time of the year (I.e. grass level) I’ll fish different props and different styles (of running and gunning). I run full speed between spots because every minute matters for me. I’ll moderate how much I run and plan better instead. Most of my lakes are under 400 acres and I never worry about battery for a full day trip. I can launch before sun up and fish until afternoon and never be close on an 80 ah.

 

One lake I fish is 2700 acres and is the biggest in nj. I’ve done 8 miles in a full day trip (4am-4pm) and ended on about 15% battery or maybe a little less. The lake is about 7 miles end to end but has a bunch of fingers and coves also. It’s heavy with powerboaters and when I cross a main lake area I’m on full speed if there are boats around. I don’t fish that lake much anymore.  The day I did that many miles I had a couple open crossings but much of it was 0.5-1.0 mph and going down the bank. 
 

My 1200 acre lake also has a bunch of fingers and where I like to fish is spread out over the lake depending on season. If I’m ‘just fishing’ and going around the lake, it’s about a 6 mile loop. I’ll do 30-40% of it on high speed.  If I’m hitting specific spots then I’ll just make a run and go to it. Unfortunately a lot of what I like to fish is the upper end which is a 2 mile run. At 4 mph, that’s a solid 30 minute run if I’m paying attention and cut the corners just right. I can do 2 hours at full speed in my boat.  So running there and back is half of my battery. That’s plenty if I stick around that area or just fish my way home. But I can’t run from the ramp to one place, to the next place, back to the first, over to a third, etc. 

 

if your spot is 7 miles from launch and you’re doing 14 miles round trip plus fishing distance, then I think you’re pushing a 100 too far. I’d want a spare 100 for that. You can save battery by running around 3.2 mph (about setting 8 or so).  You’re dropping 20% of your speed but you’ll drop 40% of your amperage. 
 

get a meter for your battery if you don’t have one. 
 

 

[casts_by_fly]

Also, I run 3 different props. The standard prop it came with would give me 3.9-4.0 mph consistently when new. The weedless wedge dropped that to 3.5. The rc airplane prop (10.5x4L I think) would be 4.2-4.3. I’m down to 3.2/3.7/4.0 after 3 seasons. Early season and rocky lakes I run the plane prop. I want the speed and it doesn’t draw more amperage. It’s also trash if there is any grass. About April I start getting grass and swap to the standard prop. By mid to late may I’m using the weedless wedge, speed be damned. By that point I’m fishing a lot of smaller weedy lakes and the prop makes a big difference for that. 

[Koz]

7 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

if your spot is 7 miles from launch and you’re doing 14 miles round trip plus fishing distance, then I think you’re pushing a 100 too far.

 

Thanks for all of the info. The lake that I live on is 15k acres, but there are also a ton of boat ramps that I can launch from. I'm glad I bought a trailer earlier in teh year.

 

If the battery box it comes with doesn't have a voltage meter, I'll swap it out with another one that I already have that includes a voltage meter and a built in USB port. Also, with two batteries boxes I could get a second 100 battery and connect them in parallel to increase battery capacity. I was going to fish a few tournaments next year, so that might be the best option for that.

 

I'll also make sure that I buy a weedless wedge prop before the spring season starts.

 

How do you like the heading puck? Do you use it a lot?

 

I may pick your brain on the mega live setup at a later date. Thanks again!

 

 

[Bankc]

I'd just bring a paddle, in case there's and issue, and leave it at a single 100Ah battery.  At least for the motor.  That should be enough, I would think.  I get by with a 50Ah and have fished up to 8 hours without any issues.  Though, I might grab a second battery for the fish finder and anything else.  Sometimes the fish finder and trolling motor don't like to be on the same battery.  But you don't need a huge one for that.  I use a 7Ah SLA battery for mine, but some people go with bigger.  Especially if you have a large screen on your fish finder or lots of bright lights.  I originally planned on getting a second 50Ah battery (as I can't fit a full sized 100Ah through the hatch in my hull), but never needed it.  

 

At lower speeds, it doesn't take nearly as much juice.  Like 80% speed requires half the amperage or something like that.  And you'll probably spend most of your time running at less than that, as no one wants to putt around for 2-3 hours, not fishing, just to get to their fishing hole.  Being in a kayak, if you need to travel several miles, you'll likely launch closer to your fishing spot anyway.  I rarely travel more than 3 miles out from my launch (and 3 miles back is just 6 miles total, or 1.5 hours of full speed).  So chances are, you'll spend most of your time going slow and draining very little power, doing actual fishing.  

 

Also, don't worry about volt meters with lithium batteries.  They won't tell you anything you don't already know.  All their good for is letting you know the battery has already died, which you can figure out on your own when the motor stops working.  They're not like lead acid batteries that slowly degrade over time.  They work nearly as good as fully charged until they almost instantly die.  They do make battery monitors that you can buy and install that will give you a better idea of how much juice you have left.  These measure and record both the time and amperage and calculate the remaining juice stored in the battery.  They're a bit more complicated and expensive, but it's the only real way to know how much you have left in the battery.  

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, Koz said:

Thanks for all of the info. The lake that I live on is 15k acres, but there are also a ton of boat ramps that I can launch from. I'm glad I bought a trailer earlier in teh year.

 

If the battery box it comes with doesn't have a voltage meter, I'll swap it out with another one that I already have that includes a voltage meter and a built in USB port. Also, with two batteries boxes I could get a second 100 battery and connect them in parallel to increase battery capacity. I was going to fish a few tournaments next year, so that might be the best option for that.

 

I'll also make sure that I buy a weedless wedge prop before the spring season starts.

 

How do you like the heading puck? Do you use it a lot?

 

I may pick your brain on the mega live setup at a later date. Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

You can try the battery box you already have when you get the kayak, however the old town battery box has the built in cable to plug directly into the hard mounted socket in the gunwale.  You'd need to add that cable which I don't know they sell separately.  You can buy the plug ends and make you're own cable, but you're going to be well over $50 for it, maybe more.  You're already looking at the yak power setup and I think one of them has the USB plugs built in if you really need them.  I didn't put any in mine but I don't run any go-pros or anything like that.  And my phone lasts forever on a full charge.

 

the heading puck is nice.  I fished without it for a full season plus and it certainly isn't necessary.  However, the jog feature is what its nice for.  If you're fishing offshore or if you're fishing close quarters picking apart docks, laydowns, thick grass, or anything where you're making a lot of repeated casts to close together targets, then the puck is nice.  As much as the autopilot is a heavy kayak, its still a light boat when it comes to wind and waves moving you around.  You're not going to just sit on the water in one place and make repeated casts without the boat moving.  You'll want to spot lock at casting distance and let the motor hold you in place.  Without the puck you'd then unlock, move to the next casting point, and lock in.  Definitely doable.  But with the puck you stay locked and just bump the buttons.  Its smoother, quieter, and faster to do it that way.  Keep in mind I'm standing the entire time I fish and my rods are horizontal.  I fish 360 degrees around the boat so I don't care which way the wind is swinging the boat around.  

 

the AP comes with a voltage meter on the motor head, but it doesn't work for lithium.  You'll need a shunt based meter.  I got the $35 version from Amped (their original) and mounted it forward of the left rudder pedal.  Its out of the way and yet I can see it just fine when I'm running or standing.  Its another wire to run, but I just used the built in wire grommets and some double stick tape.  The only downside of that location is when I'm night fishing.  The display is bright and comes on every 10 seconds or so.  I throw my two hand towels over it to block the light.

 

you're not going to run two batteries in parallel in the AP unless you do some custom wiring that's going to be more trouble than its worth.  The underseat battery box fits one standard form battery more or less (the FPV system can do more).  Your second battery will need to be almost back at your rudder so you have your tackle right behind the seat.  Then you're running a wire up to the battery box under the seat (or thereabouts) either through the tank well itself or drilling into the gunwale and running it up inside the boat.  Then you've got the factory wiring harness inside the boat that you'd have to cut into.  It's all doable but you're going to end up voiding all of your electrical system warranty and spending more money than you'd have spent just to get a second battery box.  If you have a second battery box from Old town, you unstrap it, unplug it, swap boxes, and reverse the process.  Its one plug and two buckles to swap bateries.

[casts_by_fly]

22 minutes ago, Bankc said:

I'd just bring a paddle, in case there's and issue, and leave it at a single 100Ah battery.  At least for the motor.  That should be enough, I would think.  I get by with a 50Ah and have fished up to 8 hours without any issues.  Though, I might grab a second battery for the fish finder and anything else.  Sometimes the fish finder and trolling motor don't like to be on the same battery.  But you don't need a huge one for that.  I use a 7Ah SLA battery for mine, but some people go with bigger.  Especially if you have a large screen on your fish finder or lots of bright lights.  I originally planned on getting a second 50Ah battery (as I can't fit a full sized 100Ah through the hatch in my hull), but never needed it.  

 

At lower speeds, it doesn't take nearly as much juice.  Like 80% speed requires half the amperage or something like that.  And you'll probably spend most of your time running at less than that, as no one wants to putt around for 2-3 hours, not fishing, just to get to their fishing hole.  Being in a kayak, if you need to travel several miles, you'll likely launch closer to your fishing spot anyway.  I rarely travel more than 3 miles out from my launch (and 3 miles back is just 6 miles total, or 1.5 hours of full speed).  So chances are, you'll spend most of your time going slow and draining very little power, doing actual fishing.  

 

Also, don't worry about volt meters with lithium batteries.  They won't tell you anything you don't already know.  All their good for is letting you know the battery has already died, which you can figure out on your own when the motor stops working.  They're not like lead acid batteries that slowly degrade over time.  They work nearly as good as fully charged until they almost instantly die.  They do make battery monitors that you can buy and install that will give you a better idea of how much juice you have left.  These measure and record both the time and amperage and calculate the remaining juice stored in the battery.  They're a bit more complicated and expensive, but it's the only real way to know how much you have left in the battery.  

 

definitely bring a paddle.  There is a paddle holder on the side of the AP that works fine.  However a 100 AH might not be enough for him if he's going to be running 7+ miles.  

 

Helix units and the autopilot seem to 'play nice' and you rarely hear of any interference issues with them.  Garmin seems to have a lot more instances of interference, even on separate batteries.  Regardless, put the FF on a separate battery.  It just keeps everything cleaner.  Koz has the second battery already, so no reason not to.  A 10 ah lithium would be enough for a day with the Helix 7.  A 10 ah SLA is not.  Then the bigger HBird units with the larger transducers pull about 3x the power.  The Helix 5 and 7 come with the compact transducer; the Helix 8 and bigger use the bigger transducer which pulls 2x the power of the compact (2x the piezos inside).  The helix 7 draws about 0.8 amps at full brightness and with autochart mapping on.  A helix 9 is 2.4 amps.  

[Wprich]

I run a 100AH Ionic Lithium in mine and have never ran out of juice or even come close.  Sometimes I go 3 trips without even having to charge it.  I usually fish smaller electric only lakes we have down here with the biggest I fish being around 900 acres.  Most my trips are 6-10 hours if I have enough sunlight and like I said never came close to running out.  I spot lock alot when bait fishing for perch/crappie and on the windy days that might be when I use the most battery since the dumb thing always adjusting to face the wind(my only gripe).  When bass fishing I usually put it on a low setting and parallel the banks when fishing moving baits covering water and run it typically around 8-9 setting when changing spots on the remote.  I try to not run it on full speed 10 much unless I have to because of how much it drains battery but I will put it on 10 for short runs like going to next cove or maybe end of day getting to ramp.  The Ionic has a Bluetooth app I have on my phone and I used to check my batteries alot during day to see what I had remaining now I don't even check since I know it's a slim chance I'll kill it.
I run a 20amp Ionic lithium for fish finder which is a Helix 9 G4N Mega SI+ and also have the GPS Puck and I have to usually charge it after every trip.  Lowest I got it to was a 8am - 6pm day perch fishing that I got it down to I believe 11%.  I have to charge the 20 amp after every trip I went Friday and the 20 amp was at 46% after 5+ hours of fishing while the 100 amp was at 73% with me having covered most of a 260 acre lake on a windy day except for the dam area and 1 long bank.

[casts_by_fly]

28 minutes ago, Wprich said:

I run a 100AH Ionic Lithium in mine and have never ran out of juice or even come close.  Sometimes I go 3 trips without even having to charge it.  I usually fish smaller electric only lakes we have down here with the biggest I fish being around 900 acres.  Most my trips are 6-10 hours if I have enough sunlight and like I said never came close to running out.  I spot lock alot when bait fishing for perch/crappie and on the windy days that might be when I use the most battery since the dumb thing always adjusting to face the wind(my only gripe).  When bass fishing I usually put it on a low setting and parallel the banks when fishing moving baits covering water and run it typically around 8-9 setting when changing spots on the remote.  I try to not run it on full speed 10 much unless I have to because of how much it drains battery but I will put it on 10 for short runs like going to next cove or maybe end of day getting to ramp.  The Ionic has a Bluetooth app I have on my phone and I used to check my batteries alot during day to see what I had remaining now I don't even check since I know it's a slim chance I'll kill it.
I run a 20amp Ionic lithium for fish finder which is a Helix 9 G4N Mega SI+ and also have the GPS Puck and I have to usually charge it after every trip.  Lowest I got it to was a 8am - 6pm day perch fishing that I got it down to I believe 11%.  I have to charge the 20 amp after every trip I went Friday and the 20 amp was at 46% after 5+ hours of fishing while the 100 amp was at 73% with me having covered most of a 260 acre lake on a windy day except for the dam area and 1 long bank.

 

spot lock doesn't use too much battery.  Even in a 20 mph wind and waves, the motor is only running on setting 2-3 most of the time.  That's drawing a negligible amount of battery power (roughly 2-3 amps).  Running on speed 8-9 is drawing 20-25 amps.  If you are spot locking in a river or tidal current then that's a different thing.

 

And the spot lock works the same as an anchor- you'll always be pointed into the wind.  Its not the motor trying to reposition you- the motor is just holding the motor GPS on the GPS point.  the wind is blowing the back of the boat around.  No way around it on a motor based anchor.

[Wprich]

13 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

spot lock doesn't use too much battery.  Even in a 20 mph wind and waves, the motor is only running on setting 2-3 most of the time.  That's drawing a negligible amount of battery power (roughly 2-3 amps).  Running on speed 8-9 is drawing 20-25 amps.  If you are spot locking in a river or tidal current then that's a different thing.

 

And the spot lock works the same as an anchor- you'll always be pointed into the wind.  Its not the motor trying to reposition you- the motor is just holding the motor GPS on the GPS point.  the wind is blowing the back of the boat around.  No way around it on a motor based anchor.

Yeah one of the places I fish is a long lake below a much bigger lakes dam so it's always moving water so basically a river

[Koz]

Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks to everyone.

 

Even on my pedal dive, I always strap a full sized paddle to the kayak just in case I have a break down.

 

It looks like I should get it within the next 2 days as the carrier says it's only a few hours away. It looks like it's coming in an 18 wheeler which is going to be interesting because there's no way the truck will be able to get down my tree canopy covered dirt road driveway. So I'll have to hitch up my trailer and meet the driver somewhere nearby.

 

It's also supposed to be cold this week and when it gets warm this weekend it's going to rain. With that, I probably won't be wiring the electronics this week. Instead, I'll just keep the transducer on my Yak Attack Switchblade and go over the rail for the first trip or two. Unfortunately, I don't have a garage at my house and the steel shed doesn't have power run to it.

 

Anyway, I'm getting excited about this. I can't wait to try it out even if I have to go fish in the rain.

[casts_by_fly]

For the first trip out, I’d leave the electronics and rods at home. Just take the boat for a drive.  Confirm it all works.  Get used to the pedals and steering it. It’s super stable, but there are a couple things you’ll need to get used to. Motoring at full speed and turning the head sharply is too much and it might throw you. If you hit the pedal to turn the same way at the same time it will probably roll you out. Don’t forget to deploy the rudder fully all of the time. 
 

at most, just take one rod and a handful of tackle. 

[Koz]

25 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

For the first trip out, I’d leave the electronics and rods at home. Just take the boat for a drive.  Confirm it all works.  Get used to the pedals and steering it. It’s super stable, but there are a couple things you’ll need to get used to. Motoring at full speed and turning the head sharply is too much and it might throw you. If you hit the pedal to turn the same way at the same time it will probably roll you out. Don’t forget to deploy the rudder fully all of the time. 
 

at most, just take one rod and a handful of tackle. 

Good advice. I'm old and no longer a hot rodder 😀 

 

Earlier this year I traded in my sports car for a Bronco. I had a habit of pushing my car to the limits every now and then on country roads or on track days. But I noticed my reaction times slowing down and missing braking points and apexes and I quit that cold turkey.

 

This is also one of the reasons why I decided to upgrade my kayak rather than buy a boat. I've lost my edge -or gained some sanity.

[Zcoker]

Knowing how much gas you have is a good first step. I'd suggest investing in a lithium battery monitor. If your battery already has built in Bluetooth, then you're good to go. If not, then you'll need to get one. A lead acid battery monitor will not work on a lithium battery. I opted for the TRD Smart Shunt, which is an exact copy of the pricey Victron unit. Works very well. It accurately shows the state of charge on my phone and is very trust worthy. I trust it enough to go over 15 miles (often at night) out in the everglades with my OldTown with zero power issues. 

 

As far as distance goes, it's all gonna be related to how much gas you give her, just like a car, if you floor it everywhere you go, then she's gonna go empty rather quickly. Other factors like big wind, big waves, any sort of major obstacles, all can effect the power delivery. A steady state condition is a good condition. Also, knowing your state of charge can be critical for traveling long distances. Gives you a good idea on when to turnaround and go back. 

 

Maybe not now but a sure thing to come: your trolling motor plug WILL FAIL. They're hated all over! They burn out, mainly with the prongs breaking off and WILL leave you stranded. I just upgraded mine to very robust locking plugs. 

 

Congratulations on your new ride! 

[Koz]

The good news - my Old Town arrived today.

 

The bad news - I recently moved and I can't find my Humminbird box with all of the spare parts - including the transducer mounting bracket. I found all of my old Lowrance stuff, but not the Humminbird.

 

ON my old kayak I used the YakAttack Switchblade so my transducer was over the rail. I guess I'll have to do that until I can get to BPS and pick one up. That will be faster than ordering it for delivery.

 

It's also pretty cold out today so I'm not going to test it out just yet. It's supposed to warm up this weekend, but as my luck would have it they are calling for rain and thunderstorms.

 

But it could be worse - I could be up north with iced over lakes!

[Koz]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:53 AM, casts_by_fly said:

 

 

the heading puck is nice. 

I just ordered the heading sensor and it’s due in on Friday. Hopefully it gets in early enough on Friday evening so I can get it installed for my Saturday tournament.

[casts_by_fly]

10 hours ago, Koz said:

I just ordered the heading sensor and it’s due in on Friday. Hopefully it gets in early enough on Friday evening so I can get it installed for my Saturday tournament.

 

Its not a hard install, but that's cutting it pretty close if you have any issues with pairing.  

 

I put mine here (front of bow in pic below), but to do it again I wouldn't.  My battery meter is right behind the fish's anal fin in the pic.  The heading sensor does absolutely nothing for you being in view.  You don't have to see it.  The battery meter does, but I don't need to see it as much as where it's located.  The PROBLEM with both of them there is night fishing.  When my eyes get adjusted to the dark I don't want any light and they are both bright.  I have to throw a towel over them to tone it down.  If you night fish, put the sensor in the back or at least at seat level.  The two flat spots on either side of the seat are perfect, except I already had might mounts there.

 

[Koz]

I keep a roll of duct tape in my hatch. I can use that to tape over the light. 

 

I was planning to put it behind the hatch near the seat.

 

Don’t your side mount rod holders get in the way of landing fish?