Hook wire gauge vs rod power

[radiozephyr]

I'm trying to create a rough chart for matching hook wire diameter to rod power. For example, my medium light spinning rod (1/16 - 3/8 oz) does best with hooks that are <1 mm. Maybe 1.1 mm if I'm using an exposed hook. This means that I can sometimes get away with using the 4/0 or 5/0 gamakatsu EWG hook, but I'm usually better off with the 2/0 or 3/0 (especially if rigging weedless).

 

Has anyone used a 3/8 oz flashy swimmer (1.7 mm for anyone who's curious) or any of the gamakatsu super heavy cover worm hooks? If so, what's the lightest rod you're willing to use with those?

 

I recognize that there's other factors to consider like

• line stretch
• plastic firmness
• hook coatings
• whether your bait is screw-locked

 

But as mentioned I'm just trying to create some rough guidelines. Thanks in advance

[Alex from GA]

IMO the lb test of the line dictates the thickness of the hook.  I tend to bend the barb down with light, 6 or 4 lb, line.

[WRB]

Smaller diameter wire hooks vs larger diameter takes less hook setting force.

The issue is hook strength preventing bending under hook setting.

Hook strength isn’t always the wire size used to make the hook.

Hook shape, length, gap size and sharpness are important factors to consider. For example a forged (flattened wire in the hook bend) strengthens the hook. Type of metal and heat treatment directly affects strength, plating and/or coating affects ease of point penetration along with sharpness and bard size.

The wider the hook gap the more it will bend under hook setting force. A round bend is weaker then a Sprout, O’Shaughessy or sickle bend. 
Lot of factors to consider.

A general statement is use the strongest hook made from forged smaller diameter high strength wire. I avoid EWG shape hooks whenever possible and use Gamakatsu and Owner brands because of proven performance over decades of use.

Tom

[radiozephyr]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Lot of factors to consider.

 

I'm not trying to figure out the minimum diameter you can use without bending -- I'm trying to figure out the maximum diameter you can use while still getting a good hook set. Approximately.

 

For example, my medium baitcaster (1/4 -5/8 oz) is just barely stiff enough for me to get a good hook set using a wire diameter of 1.5 mm. Open hook, braided line, no coating.

So 1.5 mm is the absolute maximum I would recommend for rods that go up to 5/8 oz.

 

I'm asking if anyone has experience fishing with hooks heavier than 1.5 mm and if so, what rod/ lure rating can get they away with using.

[WRB]

Wire dia 1.5mm = .059 dia, that is a very heavy wire hook.

Look at this by rod power(

ML/2 power max rod force is 2 lbs.

M/3 power is 3 lbs

MH/4 is 4 lbs

H/5 is 5 lbs.

Force being dead weight lifting strength before bottoming out. I use the above values to set my drag.

My jigs use Gamakatsu 5/0 #114 is .041D, and #604 5/0 is .050D. 
Suggest using Owner #5103 for max wire dia per hook size ;

2/0 = .048

3/0 = .056

4/0 = .060

5/0 = .064

Reference rod power number to */0 hook size fit a general guide line.

Tom

PS, I use the reel and rod sweep hook set with drag set as noted.

Tom

 

[Tennessee Boy]

I think the upper line test rating on the rod, not the maximum lure weight is a more accurate way to measure the rods ability to deliver force for the hook set.  This of course is limited by the drag setting and the line strength.  In reality it takes an unusually strong hook set to pull drag,  break the line,  or break the rod.  It’s the anglers ability to effectively set the hook that is usually what limits the force delivered to the hook when the hook is set but a stiff rod will compensate for a weak hook set.

 

Interesting idea but there are so many variables to consider.

[Catt]

I've used The Gamakatsu Super Heavy Cover Flippin' Hook. Personal I perfer the Heavy Cover better, little less diameter, faster penetration.

 

I also use the Owner Flashy Swimmer 3/8 oz 6/0 hook.

 

Both on a Heavy Fast rod

[radiozephyr]

1 hour ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I think the upper line test rating on the rod, not the maximum lure weight is a more accurate way to measure the rods ability to deliver force for the hook set.

I don't mind using line test instead of lure weight if that's the case. I just want to build some sort of correlation like:

Rod	Approx Line Rating	Approx Lure Rating	Approx Hook Diameter
ML	4 – 10 lb	1/16 – 3/8 oz	less than 1 mm
M	8 – 15 lb	¼ – 5/8 oz	0.8 – 1.4 mm
MH	12 – 20 lb	3/8 – 1 oz	1 – 1.6 mm
H	14 – 25 lb	1/2 – 1 1/2 oz	greater than 1.2 mm

 

I somewhat pulled those numbers out of I disagree, although based my experience measuring and testing different hooks, it seems decently accurate. I'm just asking for help refining the chart. I have a bunch of hook/jig diameters recorded, and I'm cross referencing that data against any info I can find online regarding what rods people use. That's why I asked specifically about the 5/0 flashy swimmer (1.7 mm) and gammy super heavy cover (1.8 - 2 mm depending on size).

 

I know there's a million variables here, but we can all agree that we're not throwing any 5/0 flipping hook on any ML spinning rod under any circumstances. So there has to be some rough guidelines you could develop, even if they are super rough.

[radiozephyr]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Wire dia 1.5mm = .059 dia, that is a very heavy wire hook.

Look at this by rod power(

ML/2 power max rod force is 2 lbs.

M/3 power is 3 lbs

MH/4 is 4 lbs

H/5 is 5 lbs.

Force being dead weight lifting strength before bottoming out. I use the above values to set my drag.

My jigs use Gamakatsu 5/0 #114 is .041D, and #604 5/0 is .050D. 
Suggest using Owner #5103 for max wire dia per hook size ;

2/0 = .048

3/0 = .056

4/0 = .060

5/0 = .064

Reference rod power number to */0 hook size fit a general guide line.

Tom

PS, I use the reel and rod sweep hook set with drag set as noted.

Tom

 

Man, thank you for taking the time to type all that out. You know exactly what I'm trying to do.

 

May I ask what rods you use for your jigs that use the Gamakatsu #114 5/0, and #604 5/0? If you know the line and lure rating of those rods it would help me correlate to other rods as well.

[txchaser]

Grossly oversimplified:

-Hook is called a finesse hook MH or lighter.

-Hook is legit thin/tiny, looks like something from japan or up north, or looks like it belongs in a crappie boat, M or lighter.

-Hook is thick, anything 6/0, frog sized, has the word 'jungle' 'jack' or 'attack' then it's a heavy or higher. Except for owner's jungle wacky hooks.

 

Lower stretch line then lighter rod, especially at the bottom end of thickness.

 

Mostly the bait weights follow the hook size enough that just putting it on what seems right to cast it works, unless you are doing something like a finesse hook on a really long worm that ends up heavy. 

 

 

 

[radiozephyr]

On 6/6/2024 at 9:58 PM, txchaser said:

Grossly oversimplified:

-Hook is called a finesse hook MH or lighter.

-Hook is legit thin/tiny, looks like something from japan or up north, or looks like it belongs in a crappie boat, M or lighter.

-Hook is thick, anything 6/0, frog sized, has the word 'jungle' 'jack' or 'attack' then it's a heavy or higher. Except for owner's jungle wacky hooks.

 

Lower stretch line then lighter rod, especially at the bottom end of thickness.

 

Mostly the bait weights follow the hook size enough that just putting it on what seems right to cast it works, unless you are doing something like a finesse hook on a really long worm that ends up heavy. 

 

 

 

Honestly this seems pretty accurate even though its an oversimplification

[Jheff_fish]

On 6/4/2024 at 10:45 PM, radiozephyr said:

I don't mind using line test instead of lure weight if that's the case. I just want to build some sort of correlation like:

Rod	Approx Line Rating	Approx Lure Rating	Approx Hook Diameter
ML	4 – 10 lb	1/16 – 3/8 oz	less than 1 mm
M	8 – 15 lb	¼ – 5/8 oz	0.8 – 1.4 mm
MH	12 – 20 lb	3/8 – 1 oz	1 – 1.6 mm
H	14 – 25 lb	1/2 – 1 1/2 oz	greater than 1.2 mm

 

^^^^^^^^^

Could you please use the actual hook size on the chart (1/0, 2/0, 3/0...) instead of mm? I don't personally know anyone who refers to their hook size by mm, and I don't know what size any hooks are in mm so 0.8-1.4mm etc. means nothing to me 😕 It would definitely be helpful.

 

Thanks,

 

Jake

[Tennessee Boy]

1 hour ago, Jheff_fish said:

Could you please use the actual hook size on the chart (1/0, 2/0, 3/0...) instead of mm?

The hook size is not the same as hook diameter.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

There are too many variables and lack of industry standards in label specs for your proposed chart to have any applicable significance.  Sharp, quality hooks, common sense and personal experience will get you where you need to be.