FFS Techniques for year round success?

[JHoss]

My fishing goal this winter is to get better with Livescope to the point I can confidently use it in tournaments next year. I got it a few months back (LVS32) and have had limited success with it- I can catch plenty of crappie and brim with it, but probably only caught a dozen bass on it this season. The ones I did catch largely came on more traditional techniques like spinner baits and T Rigs. I'd rather spend my time practicing with baits that work all year and in many conditions than something that only fills a niche.

 

So my question to y'all is: what are 4-5 techniques that work well with scoping bass year round and in most weather conditions?

 

My short list is:

Minnow

Jerkbait

Drop shot

 

I'd expect baits like an A Rig, Glide, or Big Worm on a T Rig to be more seasonal, but maybe I'm wrong and they're worth spending some time figuring out this winter.

 

Bonus points if anyone has some good advice on honing those techniques and my Livescope skills in general, besides time on the water.

[WRB]

Pre Spawn bass are hunting high protein prey at the depth the primary prey is located. Larger bait fish and crawdads. Mid water column and bottom where crawdads live.

Spawn staging bass near spawning areas and bed fish on the bottom. Bluegill Crappie and egg eaters near it on the bottom.

Post Spawn same as staging bass with slower moving prey suspended.

Summer bass target prey of convenance and scattered top to bottom.

Fall bass are on the move hunting bait fish schools mid water column.

Winter bass slow down and feed less on prey of opportunity in deeper water.

FFS look for bass where they should be seasonally and use lures that bass are feeding and…reflect sonar signals.

Kietch type 3.8, 4.8 on Fat on Flashy Swimmer.

4” pintail minnow on Hoover jig

Basstrix Live minnow on Live Trix jig

Drop shot

Slip shot

jigs

bottom digging crank baits and square bills

Tom

 

[GoneFishingLTN]

19 hours ago, WRB said:

Pre Spawn bass are hunting high protein prey at the depth the primary prey is located. Larger bait fish and crawdads. Mid water column and bottom where crawdads live.

Spawn staging bass near spawning areas and bed fish on the bottom. Bluegill Crappie and egg eaters near it on the bottom.

Post Spawn same as staging bass with slower moving prey suspended.

Summer bass target prey of convenance and scattered top to bottom.

Fall bass are on the move hunting bait fish schools mid water column.

Winter bass slow down and feed less on prey of opportunity in deeper water.

FFS look for bass where they should be seasonally and use lures that bass are feeding and…reflect sonar signals.

Kietch type 3.8, 4.8 on Fat on Flashy Swimmer.

4” pintail minnow on Hoover jig

Basstrix Live minnow on Live Trix jig

Drop shot

Slip shot

jigs

bottom digging crank baits and square bills

Tom

 

 

I’m curious about your thoughts on using shad/minnow-style baits in lakes without shad. I have forward-facing sonar, so do you think these baits would still be effective given that the lake has crappie and bluegill? Or would worms and other baits be a better choice?

 

[casts_by_fly]

I am 2 years on from where you are now, minus the tournaments.  I picked up mega live basically 2 years ago over the winter.  My intention wasn't to 'scope' bass, but to be able to see structure and fish in real time to know I was fishing the right areas.  Once I got comfortable with that I then moved on to fishing for the fish on the screen.  I'm in a kayak, so moving fish, a lighter moving boat, and changing wind make it pretty tough but it can be done and I've learned a few things in the process.

 

Getting started, get a bunch of practice just playing with settings.  Different water clarity/turbidity, depth, and bottom composition mean adjusting settings.  The depth setting and range settings impact what you're looking at.  It's great being able to look forward 80' or more, but unless you are using a big screen (16" plus), 80' out and 30' deep on your screen means your bait is going to be tiny and tough to track.  Same for fish.

 

Different baits have different profiles on the screen and that affects how well you can track them.  Big vs small is obvious.  Soft vs hard baits make a difference as well.  A smaller soft bait like a 2-3" jighead minnow might be the toughest thing to track (its possible though as I do it for crappie).  To that end, know where your sonar cone is.  For my megalive, it's not a wide path.  The easiest way to track a lure is to have a heavy splashdown which creates disturbance and bubbles and then you can track the bait as it falls.  If you miss the splashdown, it can be tough to find your bait until its too late.

 

In terms of specific baits, you're on the right track.  A jighead minnow is the most straightforward.  If bass are feeding in the open (or even just chilling but open to eating) it's a fast way to get a bait in front of a fish.  The right weight and sink rate is important.  You want it to sink fast enough to get down to the fish before they move but slow enough to stay in the strike zone.  Color and profile seem to matter less to me so long as you're pretty close.  A jerkbait is another good option for fish that are a little slower or more reluctant to feed.  The stop go can trigger bites that a jighead minnow won't.  A dropshot is a good choice because sometimes fish are just on a finesse bite.  And you can see it well in the water.  If bass are relating to the bottom a dropshot is a good choice, though keep in mind they are harder to find and see.  An A-rig or a spinnerbait are quite visual on FFS but I've never had a fish hit one of either fishing them that way.  One thing I have had work though is crankbaits and chatterbaits skimming deep submerged grass lines.  If you have a defined grass line at (for instance) 16' deep in 20' of water, it can be tricky at times to know you're just skimming it.  With FFS you can watch the bait and keep it right on the edge of the grass.

 

The thing to remember with bottom contact lures like texas rigs and jigs is that you're not necessarily fishing them to specific fish on FFS.  You're fishing to a brush pile or stump (for instance).  Often you won't see the fish that's in the pile and you're just using LS to ensure your bait is in the zone.

 

From a time of year perspective, you still have to understand where the fish are.  If you're on a shad heavy lake and the bass are generally following shad then you need to find them and how the bass are setting up.  For me, a lot of my lakes are bluegill and perch heavy for forage and also very weedy.  That limits FFS effectiveness in the summer when there is a thermocline set up at 15' and grass grows to the surface from 20'.  FFS is only effective for me then if there are cruising fish in the open over deeper water or in places that don't have the grass.  From ice out until May when the grass comes up though its a good tool.

 

Finally, keep in mind that even if you do all of the above right- you've found the bass, you can track your lure which matches exactly what the forage is, etc- a lot of times the bass just don't want to eat.  I've wasted a lot of time casting to fish that just didn't want anything.  You'll have to figure that one out for yourself but eventually you have to cut your losses and move on.

 

[Team9nine]

For me, my short list would be:

 

jerkbait

crankbait

minnow bait

Ned

 

No great ideas on how you hone LS skills without being on the water and using it. You can hone settings by watching lots of videos on how pros and guides set theirs up, getting you pretty dialed in with some degree of confidence right off. Beyond that, just remember it’s an amalgam of seeng fish,  seeing breaks (cover) and breaklines, and controlling depth and speed, all in near real-time.

 

I’ll add, some great advice above by @casts_by_fly. I fish reservoirs without submerged vegetation, and this year, outside of the recent trolling bite, I’ve probably seen/watched 80% plus of all the bass I’ve caught on screen. 

[JHoss]

@WRB So do you use where a fish is in the water column at a given time of year as part of the way you determine if its a bass or something else? 

 

@casts_by_fly It does sound like I'm on the same track, but a bit further behind. I've gotten pretty good with the settings, identifying my bait, and targeting cover. Probably the biggest weakness is identifying what I'm seeing- whether that be what type of cover or what type of fish. It's interesting you say that color and profile of the minnow aren't important as I've tried a half dozen heads/hooks and that many soft plastics in numerous colors and have not gotten my first bass on a minnow yet. Granted I haven't given them a lot of play before I put them away for something else. Are there any you love or hate you'd be willing to share? 

 

@Team9nine I can get behind all those baits except a dang ned rig. I've caught plenty of fish on them, but can't stand fishing something so light and slow. Maybe it's a little more tolerable when targeting specific fish or pieces of cover. Most of our lakes in SE Virginia tend to have a lot of grass or soft bottoms, so I haven't had as much success with a ned here as I have on lakes with a rockier bottom. I tend to switch to hunting this time of year, but plan to still do some bassing throughout the winter. When I do fish, I'll be almost exclusively working on improving my FFS game. The logic behind this thread was so that I can narrow down rod/bait selection to 4-5 FFS favorable setups and only carry those this winter, so I'm forced to work on that technique. But no sense learning an FFS technique that only works in winter if all of my serious fishing is done March-October.

[casts_by_fly]

43 minutes ago, JHoss said:

@WRB So do you use where a fish is in the water column at a given time of year as part of the way you determine if its a bass or something else? 

 

@casts_by_fly It does sound like I'm on the same track, but a bit further behind. I've gotten pretty good with the settings, identifying my bait, and targeting cover. Probably the biggest weakness is identifying what I'm seeing- whether that be what type of cover or what type of fish. It's interesting you say that color and profile of the minnow aren't important as I've tried a half dozen heads/hooks and that many soft plastics in numerous colors and have not gotten my first bass on a minnow yet. Granted I haven't given them a lot of play before I put them away for something else. Are there any you love or hate you'd be willing to share? 

 

@Team9nine I can get behind all those baits except a dang ned rig. I've caught plenty of fish on them, but can't stand fishing something so light and slow. Maybe it's a little more tolerable when targeting specific fish or pieces of cover. Most of our lakes in SE Virginia tend to have a lot of grass or soft bottoms, so I haven't had as much success with a ned here as I have on lakes with a rockier bottom. I tend to switch to hunting this time of year, but plan to still do some bassing throughout the winter. When I do fish, I'll be almost exclusively working on improving my FFS game. The logic behind this thread was so that I can narrow down rod/bait selection to 4-5 FFS favorable setups and only carry those this winter, so I'm forced to work on that technique. But no sense learning an FFS technique that only works in winter if all of my serious fishing is done March-October.

 

I started by fishing the 3" Yum minnow and still do.  They are a small profile bait and an easy snack. If you put it on a fish they will probably eat it if they are going to eat.  I generally have clear water, so I throw the dark green over grey version.  The couple shad lakes we have I might swap to black over white or just white if the water is cloudy.  I rarely have less than 2-3' of visibility though so a natural/neutral works for me.  The other benefit of this little one is that we have a lot of crappie and a solitary 15" crappie looks just like a solitary 15" bass on livescope.  Both will eat a 3" minnow, but a 4" freeloader is a lot for a crappie.  I'm not targeting crappie, but if I'm throwing the 3" and the fish isn't hitting I'm pretty sure it isn't eating.  if I throw the 4" and it isn't hitting its either a bass that isn't eating or a crappie.  So the 3" helps pare down that decision tree.

 

I'll throw a mini fluke also for a changeup.  No real reason other than the tail is skinnier and forked horizontally so when you twitch it you get a little more tail action.  I picked up some bigger freeloaders but haven't properly fished them yet.  I think they will be good early season but let's see.  They are certainly easier to see on the screen, but they are a much bigger bait than the yum.  

 

You said you hate the ned, but if the fish are hanging just off the bottom you can fish it just like a sonar minnow and swim it just off the bottom also.  Dropshot rig them too.  

 

Remember too, the pros picked up FFS years ago and most have said its a 2 year learning curve to really get good with it.  And that's being on the water 4-5 days a week for a lot of them.

 

[JHoss]

3 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

Both will eat a 3" minnow, but a 4" freeloader is a lot for a crappie.  I'm not targeting crappie, but if I'm throwing the 3" and the fish isn't hitting I'm pretty sure it isn't eating.  if I throw the 4" and it isn't hitting its either a bass that isn't eating or a crappie.  So the 3" helps pare down that decision tree.

 

I got a big shipment from GLF a while back including some of their smaller Drop Minnows and Hover Minnows. I plan to give those a good run this winter in hopes of building some confidence. I imagine the ring perch will be willing to eat those too when that run starts on the local river. 

[RHuff]

On 10/31/2024 at 2:28 PM, WRB said:

Pre Spawn bass are hunting high protein prey at the depth the primary prey is located. Larger bait fish and crawdads. Mid water column and bottom where crawdads live.

Spawn staging bass near spawning areas and bed fish on the bottom. Bluegill Crappie and egg eaters near it on the bottom.

Post Spawn same as staging bass with slower moving prey suspended.

Summer bass target prey of convenance and scattered top to bottom.

Fall bass are on the move hunting bait fish schools mid water column.

Winter bass slow down and feed less on prey of opportunity in deeper water.

FFS look for bass where they should be seasonally and use lures that bass are feeding and…reflect sonar signals.

Kietch type 3.8, 4.8 on Fat on Flashy Swimmer.

4” pintail minnow on Hoover jig

Basstrix Live minnow on Live Trix jig

Drop shot

Slip shot

jigs

bottom digging crank baits and square bills

Tom

 

 

 Thank you for taking the time to explain things like this in common terminology so the average knuckleheads like me can understand!

[WRB]

On 11/1/2024 at 7:10 AM, GoneFishingLTN said:

 

 

I’m curious about your thoughts on using shad/minnow-style baits in lakes without shad. I have forward-facing sonar, so do you think these baits would still be effective given that the lake has crappie and bluegill? Or would worms and other baits be a better choice?

There are slender baitfish like emerald minnows and chubs bass feed on but not may not  pelagic fish that changes location. Perch and crappie are pelagic fish and young of the make up bass diet.

Tom

 

 

[looking45]

Guys here are finding that the bigger fish are ignoring the smaller baits,like the Keitechs,  they’re having success using 5”-6” paddles tail swim baits with a 3/8 oz head. Anything lighter and the bait rises too fast on a slow retrieve. They’re using heads with a 6/0 hook