I can't believe it, but it's finally happened to me.  My prescription drug coverage has been reduced by the company ... namely HUMANA ... for no apparent reason.  I have to spend the exact same every month for the plan, but I now have to pay $60 a piece for any name brand drugs I get.

I'm not on anything on a regular basis other than a few prescribed allergy medicines when the season hits, but it still bugs me to no end.  I have to pay them for what???  I can actually get the drugs cheaper if I shop at a smaller pharmacy than what I have to pay for their 'preferred list' medications.  

I have a buddy in Canada who has everything covered.  He doesn't pay a penny for healthcare, and he can get any medications he needs for free!  What's wrong with us here in the US?   Why can't we divert some of the TRILLIONS of dollars we are spending on the war in Iraq towards more of a socialized health system?  I know some people have been BRAINWASHED by the system into believing socialized health care is one step closer to a Socialist State, but that's not true.  Look at England, France, Germany, and Canada.  They are no where near being a Socialist State, and there people are 75% healthier than we are.  We are supposedly the 2nd richest country in the world, and we can't take care of our own.  

What's wrong with this picture?  

75% healthier?

The problem with socialized medicine is the rationing of services or the unavailability of services in a timely manner:

http://www.amatecon.com/etext/dosm/dosm-toc.html

Luckyinkentucky, you say you have to pay this cost for brand name drugs, but is there a lower cost for generic drugs?  If there is, be very careful - not all generic drugs are the same as the brand name - specifically the "bonding agent" (the stuff that holds the chemicals together) may be different and can affect how the drug works.  Do some research before switching to a generic.

Roadwarrior, one of the common criticisms of "socialized medicine" is that it is "rationed" - but part of the reason for this is that the doctors leave those countries because they can charge higher fees for their services in other countries, like the USA.  But even then, they are subject to the rate limits imposed by insurance carriers and so they tend to try to maximize their earnings through volume - ever try to get a doctor to sit down with you and explain what they found during their examination - they don't like to do this 'cause the insurance carriers won't pay them for it.

The healthcare system needs reform, but the pharmaceutical and insurance lobbies are fighting hard to protect their profits.  Don't be sucked in by the sound bites.

I understand your frustration. The cost of prescription health plans has gone through the roof. To get anything over a very basic plan, you are often looking at a cost to a company of over $100 per person per month.

And what other countries do is often illegal or at best blackmail. And if we think we should do what they do, then there will soon be no pharmaceutical companies left in existence and no drugs! And when was the last time you've heard of Canada, or France, or the UK developed a new type of drug?

Also, drug companies can't get any protection from crazy lawsuits.

So, here is what I tell people to do. Print out the list of the Wal-Mart $4.00 drugs from their website. When you go to your doctor tell them to prescribe something off the list, at the listed strength (very important, because only certain strengths are at the $4.00 price, even though the drug is the same).

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=546834

It has saved many people I talk to tons of money. I myself save over $500 alone per year by doing this.

Medical rationing already exists in this country.

The rationing is done by the bean counters at the insurance companies who decide what, when and how much they'll pay for a procedure or if they'll pay for it at all.

The current system isn't working.  Millions have no insurance and those that do just keep paying more and more and more.

I can't say that a goverment run healthcare system is the answer but some sort of medical insurance plan has to become available that is centralized so that all can have access.  The current hodge podge of ins. companies with different rates for individuals, groups and so on is sucking the life blood out of this economy.

75% healthier?

The problem with socialized medicine is the rationing of services or the unavailability of services in a timely manner:

http://www.amatecon.com/etext/dosm/dosm-toc.html

I will have to disagree with you on that one!  

There is no 'rationing' of services in Canada.  If you get sick you go to the doctor.  Simple as that.  There is no long wait other than what we wait here in the US .... simply because our doctors double book patients to maximize profits.  Ever been to the doctor and he leaves the room for a second to have the nurse do something for you?  He's off talking to another patient, and filling their needs at the same time.  Ever wonder why you have to wait 20 minutes to get into the appointment you had scheduled for 20 minutes earlier?  It's because he's taking care of the 3 patients he booked at 1:30 while he scheduled you at 2.  

The perfect example of socialized medicine in the US is the military.  When I was in the Corps I never had to wait, never had to go through the payment process, and never had to deal with deductibles and copays.  It works for them in that aspect of the government.  Why not everywhere else? It's because Nixon imposed privatized healthcare for profit during his administration.  Who is one of the largest contributors to US Congressmen and Senators?  The big 3 pharmaceutical companies in the US.  They come only second to Big Oil!  

And when was the last time you've heard of Canada, or France, or the UK developed a new type of drug?

One of Pfizer's major research and development facilities is in England!  

I work for "BIG PHARMA".  Another thing to consider is that the biggest part of our profits come from the U.S.  The reason other countries are able to offer prescription drugs so cheaply is because the U.S. market subsidizes them.  If the U.S. switches to to severely deflated regulated prices like they have in Canada, who will pay for R & D?

Also, I always hear how the cost of health care is rising so much faster than inflation and the largest increases come from drug prices.  This is true.  More people are taking more drugs and this in many cases allows people to avoid medical procedures and hospital stays.  Drugs are helping people live longer as well, which dramatically increases the costs of care near the end of life.

Just a couple more facts to consider  

75% healthier?

The problem with socialized medicine is the rationing of services or the unavailability of services in a timely manner:

http://www.amatecon.com/etext/dosm/dosm-toc.html

I will have to disagree with you on that one!

There is no 'rationing' of services in Canada. If you get sick you go to the doctor. Simple as that. There is no long wait other than what we wait here in the US .... simply because out doctors double book patients to maximize profits. Ever been to the doctor and he leaves the room for a second to have the nurse do something for you? He's off talking to another patient, and filling their needs at the same time. Ever wonder why you have to wait 20 minutes to get into the appointment you had scheduled for 20 minutes earlier? It's because he's taking care of the 3 patients he booked at 1:30 while he scheduled you at 2.

You're wrong there.  We have several friends in Canada who tell us the absolute horror of the universal healthcare system there.  You might think that you can walk in and walk out, but this is an absolute myth.  They said that if you have to have a minor operation, you have to wait almost 6 months, and if you have a major surgery, you're considered lucky if you get it in the same year, it's that bad.

There are alot of problems with healthcare in America as well as the rest of the world.

Our culture with it's "Life is precious, at any cost" philosophy is a main culprit.

In the countries where the needs of the people are completely covered via their high taxes, those with terminal illnesses are made comfortable and wait to die.

Here in America, all possible means are expected to be undertaken unless the patient has specifically said otherwise.

This results is a staggering amount of money being speant on people who are dying.

The last statistic I saw on this was mind boggling.  It was some time ago, and I do not recall the source, but it was a legitimate study.  It revealed that nearly 80% of all healthcare money spent on an individual is spent in the last 2 years of their life.

That was an eye opener for me.

Yet how many of us are willing to say, "let me die" so healthcare costs can be contained?  

I used to live in Toronto....  as bad as things seem here, I'll gladly stay here,with my overpriced insurance and prescription plans...

The last statistic I saw on this was mind boggling. It was some time ago, and I do not recall the source, but it was a legitimate study. It revealed that nearly 80% of all healthcare money spent on an individual is spent in the last 2 years of their life.

My father-in-law passed away last week. He and his wife had been in a long-term care facility for nearly five years. For the last two years they required 24 hour monitoring and seperate, individual rooms. For the last year or so my wife's father has been comatose.

Cost PER MONTH, a staggering $19,000!

Quality of life...ZERO.

75% healthier?

The problem with socialized medicine is the rationing of services or the unavailability of services in a timely manner:

http://www.amatecon.com/etext/dosm/dosm-toc.html

I will have to disagree with you on that one!  

There is no 'rationing' of services in Canada.  If you get sick you go to the doctor.  Simple as that.  There is no long wait other than what we wait here in the US .... simply because out doctors double book patients to maximize profits.  Ever been to the doctor and he leaves the room for a second to have the nurse do something for you?  He's off talking to another patient, and filling their needs at the same time.  Ever wonder why you have to wait 20 minutes to get into the appointment you had scheduled for 20 minutes earlier?  It's because he's taking care of the 3 patients he booked at 1:30 while he scheduled you at 2.  

You're wrong there.  We have several friends in Canada who tell us the absolute horror of the universal healthcare system there.  You might think that you can walk in and walk out, but this is an absolute myth.  They said that if you have to have a minor operation, you have to wait almost 6 months, and if you have a major surgery, you're considered lucky if you get it in the same year, it's that bad.

I find that hard to believe.  As a matter of fact the guy that I spoke of earlier who lives in Canada has had 2 operations in the past year, and his mother has had cancer surgery.  All of them took place within less than 2 months of finding out they needed the surgeries.  One of them was his gall bladder, and it was removed within 2 weeks.  

A recent study showed that 70% of Americans worried about having something go wrong in their lives related to their health 50% of the time!  What does that cause us to do???  Buy more insurance.  We are in an endless cycle of fear and worry.  We worry about getting sick, and not being able to pay for it, so we buy more insurance.  Sure, it works for some people, but those are the people who work somewhere to pay for their insurance.  You know how many people stay at a job for the insurance alone.  So, basically their quality of a job is based on the kind of insurance it offers.  

I don't have the luxury of having my company pay for my insurance.  I work on a 1044 basis, so I buy it myself.  It's a good thing I make decent money, because a family of 4 pays $3540 a month in health care for a perfectly healthy family.  We actually got one of the better rates.   :

I beleave I can go with out the Socialized health care.  And the idea it's all free is BS.  The government pays a set amount and then the Dr is free to bill you the rest.    Also with socialized medicine you have the government telling you that you have to go to the Dr to be checked out so many times a year sick or not.  And If someone told me I had to have surgury I don't think I want to wait 6 mos for it.   If for some reason the nut jobs out there do get it in effect I will opt out and pay for my own still.

$3540 a month for family health insurance.

And I thought $700 a month out of my paycheck was expensive.

My problem with the industry is all the expensive medicine ads that are on TV. If the pharm. companies would spend less $$$ on advertising, maybe the prices wouldn't have to be so high. I don't know about anyone else, but it seems that they are just making up new illnesses to sell new drugs. In some cases, they give initials and acronyms to old illnesses to sell new drugs (AR, RLS, COPD, etc.) Someone who has suffered from arthritis for many years are now scared by the new diagnosis of "AR" and sold another high price medicine to take. One of you mentioned a "cycle of fear". I can't agree more that that "cycle of fear" is making the medical industry rich (no telling how much they've made from selling anti-bacterial soaps over the last few years; this new coverage of staph infections is only selling more).

All very frustrating to me. :-/

Not to mention the fact that they are trying to medicate kids at an earlier age now.  Did you know there is an average 40%  of ALL elementary school children diagnosed with ADHD every year?  That's scarry.  Do you know what the answer is for these children they diagnose?  Ritalin a.k.a. Methylphenidate a very close chemical match to Methamphetamine a.k.a. Crank, crystal meth, meth, etc ....

I'm sorry, but I would never want my child taking a legalized form of crystal meth for a problem that I would just see as a hyper active child.  They are finding out now that teen-agers that started taking it at an early age are forming heart related illnesses such as enlarged hearts, high blood pressure, etc ...

This country is Hell Bent on medicating for anything and everything.  The thing that gets me is that instead of coming up with a cure, they spend more money on treating the present illness.  They will probably never come up with a cure for cancer or diabetes, just because there is too much money tied up in treating it.  Imagine if all the cancer centers in the world shut down because they found a cure.   :   It'll never happen.  

They will probably never come up with a cure for cancer or diabetes, just because there is too much money tied up in treating it.  Imagine if all the cancer centers in the world shut down because they found a cure.   :   It'll never happen.  

OK.  Now we can all see where you're coming from.

You're absolutely right.  As an insider in the industry, I am privy to countless internal memos noting the cure for these diseases and the fact that we are to suppress them at all costs  :

Free tin-foil hats for everyone!

Free healthcare for all is not a right.

And if you're paying $3500 a month for health insurance, then you're not shopping around.

I would love to say more, but it just isn't worth it...

Sure, free health care sounds great, but it removes the benefits of the free market...mainly quality. Why do the rich from other countries come to america to get health care? Because it is the best. Plain and simple.

Also, if Canada's health care is so great, why are Canadians coming to the United States to get treatment and pay out of pocket for it rather than wait for Canada's free healthcare to treat them?

BOOO SOCIALISM!!!  BOOO CANADA!!!

He doesn't pay a penny for healthcare, and he can get any medications he needs for free!

Why can't we divert some of the TRILLIONS of dollars we are spending on the war in Iraq towards more of a socialized health system?

and there people are 75% healthier than we are.

Exaggerate much?

I'd like to get into this more but aren't we delving a little far into the political arena?

** Moderator Note **

Nothing has been deleted or edited, but this thread is headed south.

Let's move on.

-Kent  a.k.a. roadwarrior

Global Moderator