Redskins should have won and have been very competitive of late.

Oakland beats the defending Superbowl champs?

Philly clobbers the Falcons

This might be a stretch but ever since being caught with the taping scandal NE has just not bee the same? hmmm

Redskins should have won and have been very competitive of late.

Oakland beats the defending Superbowl champs?

Philly clobbers the Falcons

This might be a stretch but ever since being caught with the taping scandal NE has just not bee the same? hmmm

Oh please.. Brady was out all season last year. This year they have NO PASS RUSH, and a weak Defensive line. Richard Seymour, was there biggest mistake this season.

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight.   ;D

Redskins should have won and have been very competitive of late.

Oakland beats the defending Superbowl champs?

Philly clobbers the Falcons

This might be a stretch but ever since being caught with the taping scandal NE has just not bee the same? hmmm

no stretch. fact. jets pound them. we (miami) always play them tough. i agree, after being caught they are mediocre at best. you know you are weak on defense when junior seau is playing. it's a whole different game when you actually have to game plan against a team instead of stealing their signals.

Redskins should have won and have been very competitive of late.

Oakland beats the defending Superbowl champs?

Philly clobbers the Falcons

This might be a stretch but ever since being caught with the taping scandal NE has just not bee the same? hmmm

no stretch. fact. jets pound them. we (miami) always play them tough. i agree, after being caught they are mediocre at best. you know you are weak on defense when junior seau is playing. it's a whole different game when you actually have to game plan against a team instead of stealing their signals.

Seau has seen about 6 plays all year (he was brought in for a leadership role) and since the almost perfect 2007 they have had nothing but injury issues. Brady out last year and is clearly hurt this year (the team doctor has escorted him in the past 3 straight weeks) and their running backs (Morris and Maroney) were hurt most of last year. So they go out and sign Fred Taylor and he has been out since week 2.

The more and more people bring up the video-taping in game one of 2007 just shows how little they follow football.

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight. ;D

Seems like the end of the debate

to me, or maybe you think the Patriots

just "got lucky"?

  :

They did against the Ravens that year to keep it going. No arguing that.

Everyone keeps calling the Patriots cheaters for doing what everyone else is doing. Only difference is the Jets got "upset" and complained.

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight. ;D

Seems like the end of the debate

to me, or maybe you think the Patriots

just "got lucky"?

:

Orrrrrr.... the tapes they had already stock piled were recent and relevant enough to still help with those 17 games... the longer the time period and more the teams have changed since, the worse they get respectively.

In all seriousness, I'd say its a number of things, but if Brady didn't have moss to throw those loose "hail Mary's" to they would be lucky to be a .500 team this year.  They are mostly average passes at BEST, hes as tall as a giraffe and jumps like a kangaroo with super glue gloves.

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight. ;D

Seems like the end of the debateto me, or maybe you think the Patriotsjust "got lucky"? :

Orrrrrr.... the tapes they had already stock piled were recent and relevant enough to still help with those 17 games... the longer the time period and more the teams have changed since, the worse they get respectively.In all seriousness, I'd say its a number of things, but if Brady didn't have moss to throw those loose "hail Mary's" to they would be lucky to be a .500 team this year. They are mostly average passes at BEST, hes as tall as a giraffe and jumps like a kangaroo with super glue gloves.

Thats funny because Wes Welker has almost 30 more catches than Moss does. Welker has 1,053 yards on the year, Moss has 1,058. And they are a .583 team with Moss. ;D They are just banged up.I wonder what the 49er's would have been like without Jerry Rice or the Cowboy's without Emmit Smith... :

2 points to Tin. Rebuttal?

30 more catches and 5 less yards, that is funny

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight. ;D

Seems like the end of the debateto me, or maybe you think the Patriotsjust "got lucky"? :

Orrrrrr.... the tapes they had already stock piled were recent and relevant enough to still help with those 17 games... the longer the time period and more the teams have changed since, the worse they get respectively.In all seriousness, I'd say its a number of things, but if Brady didn't have moss to throw those loose "hail Mary's" to they would be lucky to be a .500 team this year. They are mostly average passes at BEST, hes as tall as a giraffe and jumps like a kangaroo with super glue gloves.

Thats funny because Wes Welker has almost 30 more catches than Moss does. Welker has 1,053 yards on the year, Moss has 1,058. And they are a .583 team with Moss. ;D They are just banged up.I wonder what the 49er's would have been like without Jerry Rice or the Cowboy's without Emmit Smith... :

Correct, both have very similar yardage.

But....

Wes Welker

4 TDs, none of which were thrown > 20 yards, only one of which occcured farther away than the Red Zone.

Randy Moss

9 TDs, only 4 of which occured in the Red zone.  The other 5 were > 20 yards out, and 3 of those 5 were on the Patriots side of the 50 yard line.

Your argument of 30 more passes (for the same reception yards essentially) to Welker only strengthens my argument.  Like I said, Randy Moss is the hail mary play maker style receiver that Brady throws prayers to.  His yard / catch average goes up by 5 yards/reception when the Patriots are behind on the scoreboard.  Wes Welker is a good receiver where good passes need to be made, but hes an over the top plunker for the most part (scoring wise). 

2 things, they can't stop the pass.  The colts and saints proved that, Miami (running team)just studied it and applied it yesterday, who thought they would pass that much? and Brady wont throw to anybody but Welker, there was a time yesterday when he was in triple coverage and Brady still threw to him.   

Funny, after that scandal they won 17 straight. ;D

Seems like the end of the debateto me, or maybe you think the Patriotsjust "got lucky"? :

Orrrrrr.... the tapes they had already stock piled were recent and relevant enough to still help with those 17 games... the longer the time period and more the teams have changed since, the worse they get respectively.In all seriousness, I'd say its a number of things, but if Brady didn't have moss to throw those loose "hail Mary's" to they would be lucky to be a .500 team this year. They are mostly average passes at BEST, hes as tall as a giraffe and jumps like a kangaroo with super glue gloves.

Thats funny because Wes Welker has almost 30 more catches than Moss does. Welker has 1,053 yards on the year, Moss has 1,058. And they are a .583 team with Moss. ;D They are just banged up.I wonder what the 49er's would have been like without Jerry Rice or the Cowboy's without Emmit Smith... :

Correct, both have very similar yardage.

But....

Wes Welker

4 TDs, none of which were thrown > 20 yards, only one of which occcured farther away than the Red Zone.

Randy Moss

9 TDs, only 4 of which occured in the Red zone. The other 5 were > 20 yards out, and 3 of those 5 were on the Patriots side of the 50 yard line.

Your argument of 30 more passes (for the same reception yards essentially) to Welker only strengthens my argument. Like I said, Randy Moss is the hail mary play maker style receiver that Brady throws prayers to. His yard / catch average goes up by 5 yards/reception when the Patriots are behind on the scoreboard. Wes Welker is a good receiver where good passes need to be made, but hes an over the top plunker for the most part (scoring wise).

you make 2 excellent points tommybass.

the first being the stockpile of tapes and the second being the hail mary's.

after playing 14 years of organized football, one thing i can say matter of factly-----i or my team never cheated. ever. joey porter is right, they should put an asterisk by those championships.

Well it is useless to argue about because they are barely over 500 with Moss.  ;D

And I would take Welker over Moss anyday because he is great for those short passes and he is great getting YAC. Also those screen and missile screen plays to Faulk and Maroney are usually good to move the chains. When you have Brady at the healm (HEALTHY) they are automatically an above average team. Even before Moss, Brady would make plays to Dion Branch and Reche Caldwell (never hear anything about them since they left New England and won Super Bowls with them.

Fact is with Brady hurt, Vulmner hurt and unable to protect Brady, Fred Taylor out, Banta-Cain injured (their best pass-rusher), they are going no-where.

I find it absolutely hilarious that the Patriots haters are out. When they have lost their last 3 out of 4 games, at 7-5 they are barely hanging onto the AFC East Div lead. Keep hating, over what now, I dont know.

Easy children settle down ladies. You'd think this was politics or religion

Good point Tin about the 17 in a row. You are right I don't follow the NFL that close just more of a casual observer.

I knew the NE was kind of a stretch and that is why I labeled it so. Besides injuries, being a year in year out playoff contender & or Superbowl has a tendency to take a toll on a roster not to mention draft order issues. Everyone comes after the winner's roster. The Patriots have been head over heals at still being top notch despite the pillage and the parity effects.

Cheating never hurts the cause either.... don't start, don't start just having some fun! ;D

Ok deep breath before you reply! lol