The Rooster

Well then, based on that last post I'm glad I'm learning to do this left handed. I want to learn to do it with both hands though. Now that I read here how to flip correctly I'm sure I'll be able to do it. I had the thumb bar disengaged when trying it earlier. No wonder I got so many backlashes! Pitching, I hardly got any and after a little while I didn't get anymore at all. Man I can't believe I've never tried this before. I always thought it would be too hard to do so I never tried it at all. Also I'm glad I read here that it requires a little bit of an underhanded cast cause as I was doing it I noticed that's what I was doing but didn't know if that was totally correct. The video I have here at home for it shows only a pendulum swing. Gary Klein is the person doing it and he states to let it swing away and take line out. No mention of underhanded cast at all. But to get it to go out on my short rod I was having to "goose" it with the underhanded casting I was doing.

Only one I ever owned was a Tourney Special in the 5'6" length, a casting rod. It was a solid, quality built rod, but I let it go in a yard sale cause I messed up and got it in a medium heavy power when I should have gotten a bit softer rod. But for $100, I wouldn't even consider a BPS rod, not when a Shimano Compre can be had for $100 to $110, (6'6" or 7'), and they have lifetime warranties which beats just a year only. Sensitivity on these rods is awesome, best I have ever had, but I've only had rods cheaper in price before getting the Compre. Still though, for $100 you'd never beat it and I see no reason to even look at anything else considering how nice these are for that price. I still do look cause I'm just that way, curious, always looking for something new, but now that I compare everything to the Compre, it's gonna be a lot harder to sell me on something lower priced or higher, either way. Lower I just tend to think it's not as good, and higher I tend to think it would have to completely blow away the Compre for me to want it and pay more. Well, got off track, but for BPS rods, I see no problems with their quality, just think they'd stack up as #2 compared to a Shimano based on warranty alone.

OK, cool. I didn't know that the reel was supposed to be engaged when flippin'. That may be my whole problem so I'll have to try it again. The video didn't mention that the reel needs to be engaged but it just only touched on both techniques for a minute or so and only to show how to make the flip or pitch by motion of the rod. I am also able to cast amidextrously but not quite as well left handed. So I think that helped me pick up the pitching faster left handed. I'm sure it would have been worse had I never casted left handed at all before. By the way, is there any real purpose of a flippin' switch on a reel?? And if you flip with the reel engaged, shouldn't it be called a pitchin' switch instead since a pitch is the one that lets out line where a flip does not?? And I don't seem to need that feature to do this anyway, plus I was told here on this site that I don't need it as well. I could actually see how having it might be of some use to re-engage quicker but if I pitch left handed then I can engage fairly quickly with my right hand anyway. Only way it would help is if I got a strike the moment the lure hit the water.

What trolling motor would you use to push something like that?? I didn't know they made one that heavy.

Yeah, I've been fishing with baitcasters for years but all I ever did was just cast them. I can throw a lure up to a 100+ feet on the cast, but when it comes down it hits like a bomb in the water. Spooks fish at times. I mostly sidearm cast or roll cast to avoid the splash, but using heavy spinnerbaits or jigs it still splashes sometimes. If I can learn to pitch a jig to cover with no noise or commotion then I think I can open the door to bigger fish. I'm thrilled that I had any success at all for my first time, I thought it would take a bunch of times before I saw any results. Just gotta get the distance now but I think I could get more if I had the rod I intend to get for this. Been looking at a 7' Shimano Compre medium heavy with either fast or extra fast tip. Not sure which tip action I need since I'm not sure if this technique is really loading the rod like a cast would.

Went out today to the water from the bank to try to learn to pitch and flip. Didn't go to catch fish, didn't have enough time, I just went to try to learn a new technique and thought that having water to practice on would let me know if I was able to present a lure with no splash or not, since I'm under the impression that this is why you would want to pitch or flip anyway. I'll continue with this in the backyard to develop accuracy, but for now I just wanted to try to nail down the "how to" part of it. I was using a 6'6" medium heavy rod, fast tip, and a 1/2 oz. rated jig (true weight 5/8) with a Paca Craw trailer, total weight estimated at about 7/8 oz. including the trailer. I worked at flippin' for a while, never was able to make it work, only my first attempt, but had no success at all. Just couldn't seem to let the lure move out and bring my hand in at the same time plus thumb the reel with my other hand. Had one backlash after another, and they were pretty bad ones. I tried it with both hands, just couldn't do it. Next I tried pitchin' which as far as I understand it is to be used in place of flippin' when you need distance from your target (I saw a video that said flip when water was stained and you can be close up on the fish, and pitch when water is clearer and you need to back off from them). I wasn't able to get any real distance in pitchin', but I did discover that I could do the pitchin' technique and drop a lure in the same distance of water as what I would normally use for flippin', and I did it without so much as a bubble of water splashing. So do I need to learn to flip when I think I could just use the pitchin' for everything, short casts or distance either one?? Some things I did learn today. First, I can easily see how a longer rod would help. I was using a 6'6" rod and it was only just OK for doing this. I wouldn't want it any shorter at all. I'm planning to get a 7' rod, or maybe possibly a 7'6" for my flippin'/pitchin' rod. Second, I saw in the video to learn to do this left handed if you can so you don't have to switch hands after the cast. I tried right handed pitchin' since I naturally throw right anyway and just did OK, but when I tried left handed I was amazed that I took to it faster that way than I did with my normal hand I use. So that was a plus, I thought that would have been harder but apparently not. I honestly think that having the crank on the right side of the reel vs. me holding it in my left hand was somehow helping me to balance the rod in hand better than it did while holding it in my right hand. Like the crank was in the way of how I was holding it right handed, but not when held in my left hand. Who knows, all I know is I got to where I could throw consistently in about 45 minutes using my left hand, no backlashes, and hardly so much as a drop of water displaced when pitching to about 20 feet out in distance. With some practice I think I will gain some distance, some control, and accuracy, and then I'll have a new weapon for next season when it comes to bass fishing. All in all, not bad for 2 hours of practice, only took 45 minutes of that time to develop a little feel for the pitching part using my left hand so I'm happy for my first time trying this.

Do you mean a better warranty from the Crucial to the Compre?? They both have the same lifetime warranty.

Since beginning to fish I never have learned how to pitch and flip. Now I got a DVD in the mail where Gary Klein shows how to do this and it looks easy to do (yeah right!). I'm interested in learning so I'm wondering a few things right off.... First, do I need a reel with a flippin' switch?? The reel he used in the video was one of last year's Quantum PT reels and it had one, but he never made mention of it at all, never saw him use it, so I don't know if it was engaged or not. I could find out for sure cause I get a really good look at the switch in the video so all I'd have to do is see where it's set and then pull up a picture of one of those reels on the net to see if it's engaged or not. But I ask if I need it cause I already have a BPS Extreme 7.1:1 ratio reel that I'd like to use for this and it does not have the flippin' switch. Next, he said to get between a 7' and 8' rod for this. He was using a 7'6" heavy action rod. Is a heavy action rod necessary, or will a medium heavy suffice?? I could put the bait out there either way, but I'm guessing the kind of heavy cover he was fishing dictated he needed a heavy rod to drag the fish out of it in a hurry?? What do you guys use?? Finally, for line, he said mono, fluoro, or braid. From reading on here I have seen that certain lines are better for different kinds of cover. I'd like to make an "all around" flippin/pitchin rod for rocks, wood, vegetation, so what line would I use?? Since braided line is so limp it seems it might be easier to use for learning pitchin' and flippin' but I was thinking it would fray up around rocks. Sorry I'm such a novice at this and don't know anymore than I do. I've tried to teach myself for years how to do this from reading about it in magazines, just so I could cast a lure without making so much of a splash but I always had the wrong gear in my hands and it didn't work right, backlashed, didn't cast more than a few feet, or made a splash anyway, and generally was a nightmare so I never got it right. Now that I can SEE it done on video, it seems I might finally learn how to do it if I had the right stuff to learn on.

That's about right. Look at what the rod says on it for recommended weights of lures. Roughly, most rods fall in the 1/4 to 5/8 range, some will be as low as 1/8 and some will be as high as 3/4. Depends on who made the rod.

I'm religious about manually flipping. Since buying these two Pfluegers, I don't think I've cranked them closed even just once, playing around or otherwise. I don't know what it is, maybe I just got some bad line. I've never had so much line twist before though. It's so bad that if I give any slack in the line, it will kink up and wrap around itself a dozen times. You ever see an extra long phone cord on a receiver that was stretched out and twisted together all over the place?? That's what my line looks like after making a cast sometimes, before closing the bail.

That's good to hear. So.......you catchin' any bass yet??

It has actually occurred to me that the size of the reel might have something to do with it cause I also own a Trion which is the same design as the President minus 3 bearings which makes no difference at all to the line, but I got the Trion in the 30 size instead of the 35. It does twist line some but not nearly as bad it seems. I don't know if it's the spool size, or what the difference is really cause I can line both reels with the same line and the President will need new line faster than the Trion does, even though I fish the Trion more. I just like the rod the Trion is on better so I use it most. The Trion still twists line, and it seems to do it worse than I remember either of my old Abu Garcia Cardinals ever doing but I can actually manage to use it anyway. The President just seems to need new line everytime I pick it up. Who knows....... I guess the reel's size really doesn't effect it that way but man it sure seems to.

I've been told a swivel helps but I've never had to use it in the past with other reels. Don't know what the problem is on that design but I'm now starting to think I should go a different direction myself with spinning reels. I love the design of the reels, but something just doesn't seem to work right somewhere. That President has also had an issue with the gears grinding. I've had two of them now and they both did that same thing, one worse than the other, but neither one of them should have did it at all. Put that with line twist and I have 2 good reasons to switch to another reel brand now.

I too have a President, the 6735 size, and it's the most line twisting of any reel I've ever owned. So far all I've used on it is original Stren mono, and Trilene mono, 8 lb. Both lines twisted severely, enough that I started suspecting the reel to be the cause. Of course I do fish Roostertails on it which do cause some of the twist. But I've fished them for years on other reels with nowhere near as many issues as I have on this one.

It's probably loose and needs tightened up. Some reels have fold up handle designs for making them more compact for storage. If you loosen them some then the handle will fold inward. Not sure that's the problem here cause I don't have a Symetre, but it's something to look at.

I have a Quantum EX250 that is identical to that. I took mine apart by first removing the handle and drag star. After that there's some washers underneath the drag star that are opposing, or go together like this ---> () and they just slide off. They are for applying pressure to the drag washers as you tighten the drag star down so they need to oppose each other, not go together like this (( Always like this () Then you'll need to unscrew the three pins holding the 2 sideplates on. They're the large knobby looking things sticking out on the crank handle side. Turn them counterclockwise and that will loosen them. That will let the sideplate where the magnetic brakes are come off and also let the spool slide out. There should also be 2 small screws on the side where the main gears are (the crank side). Unscrew those and it will let the sideplate where the crank was come off. You have to remove the crank handle and drag star first though. The sideplate won't come off by just simply removing screws only. BE CAREFUL!! That reel has a flippin' switch and it has a spring that is under some pretty heavy tension. It can and WILL fly out on you and get lost in a hurry (if it doesn't hit you in the eye, you'll know exactly where it is then ). I removed that spring with needlenosed pliers, or hold a cup over it as I take it out so that if it does fly up, maybe the cup will contain it so it doesn't go 20 feet across the room and land silently in the carpet making it nearly impossible to find again. Once the sideplate is off, the spring is free to travel and only stays in place due to the tension it's under.....so long as it's not moved AT ALL. Once you get in there, remove it FIRST THING! After that, disassembly is fairly easy cause things will just come off without too much more difficulty. Many parts will come apart with no further tools. Lay them out in the order you removed them in so you can reassemble them in the same manner. I typically will break a reel down to where no 2 parts are still connected whenever possible so I can thoroughly clean everything. The instructions I posted here will get you through the roughest parts of that reel, or the questionable (how to) parts to remove. Once inside you'll see how stuff goes together and lines up. When you are inside it, spend some time just looking at it and watching how various parts work together as they are moved so you get a good idea how they go together again. Press the release button to see how the clutch operates, how stuff moves (BUT DO THIS ONLY AFTER REMOVING THAT SPRING, I found out the hard way on that and spent an hour looking for it one day). I spend longer looking at the inner workings of a reel than I do actually cleaning it when it's a reel I'm unfamiliar with. For tools you'll need an adjustable wrench, a 1/8 slotted screwdriver, a #1 phillips screwdriver, and needlenosed pliers for the flippin' spring. You might also find use for a 1/4 slotted and #2 phillips as well, but I usually don't need those larger ones. I use the slotted screwdriver to break loose screws that are tight and then finish unscrewing them with the phillips. Don't use the phillips to break them loose, if they are tight the phillips will strip the heads instead of loosening them. Post here or PM if you need additional help. I can always take some pics of mine and post them if need be. I don't use that reel anymore so if I disassemble it now and something happens then it's no big loss. As a side note, I got my version of this reel in 1996, it has 2 bearings and a 5.1:1 ratio just like yours. That may let you know something of its true age. Mine says EX250 model where yours says 350. Also saw yours has 3 bearings where mine only has 2 (350 model vs. 250). That's the only differences I can see. My 2 bearings are located on the main crank shaft, side by side, one roller bearing for anti-reverse and one ball bearing. Since I never disassembled a 3 bearing version then I don't know where the other bearing would be in yours, or if there are even 2 on your main shaft like mine has. I do know you'll at least have the roller bearing on the main shaft. Watch as you pull off that sideplate where the crank was, sometimes the roller bearing will come off with it. The cage on the roller bearing for this reel is hex shaped and fits snuggly in place in the sideplate so it sometimes is hard to remove. Watch it though cause the sleeve that's in the center of that roller bearing will typically try to stay on the crank shaft as you pull the sideplate off. That will allow the bearing to come apart on you if that sleeve falls out of it. That's the only part of the reel I don't break down to nothing. I try to always leave the sleeve in the bearing. Had one fall out on me once and some of the bearing parts moved around and I had to fight with it to put it back together. Also reeldr.com has some schematics of similar reels if you need to see some diagrams. I couldn't find my exact one on there but the EX500 is very similar, same as mine but has 4 bearings. They're listed under Zebco/Quantum schematics on that site. Since yours is virtually the same it should supply you with some answers if you get stuck on how things go together or come apart.

Ya know, here I was thinking how wrong you are about spending that much on rods and reels in a year but when I started looking at what all I've spent in the last 3 years on rods and reels I came up with $630 on 3 spinning reels and 4 baitcasting reels, 1 spinning rod and 3 baitcasting rods. Man I never realized how much I spent on that stuff. Of course it took me 2 1/2 years to get there, from spring of 2007 to fall of 2009. Here I was thinking I really didn't spend all that much but that's a pretty good amount to me.

Not sure how much you're gonna like that new rod over the last one. My brother in law has the same exact one for swimbaits. I'll have to ask him how stiff it is compared to others. He bought it cause it will handle swimbaits which are considerably heavier than most average bass lures so I'd venture to guess that rod will be stiffer than the last one you just returned.

Man, I'm in love with this reel!!! If my wife divorced me and all I got out of it was $369, I would spend it on this and marry it!!! Too bad it's so high, I would be divorced if I got one o' these!!! http://www.***.com/descpageRLCSHIMANO-SC50MG.html#

I like a casting reel better cause it makes me feel more in contact with the rod blank due to the way I hold the rod/reel combo while either retrieving the bait or working it back to the boat with the rod by doing a pull, reel in slack, pull again, reel in more slack, action. Makes me feel more of what the bait is doing the way I'm holding it. In that instance I'd say working the lure was easier not because it was a baitcasting reel, but because it is a baitcasting rod and reel which enables me to grip it the way it does. I don't think I could achieve the same connectivity I feel with the bait if it was a spinning rod due to the way I hold them. The way I palm the casting reel, that balances out the whole rod and basically makes it feel weightless and that adds tremendous sensitivity to a rod. The way I hold a spinning rod, the reel is behind my hand making it heavy in the rear and while that lightens the tip perceivably, it also detracts from what I'm able to feel with the rod so I don't use them for applications where sensitivity is everything such as worm fishing (texas rigged). Also having the weight of the spinning reel hanging down seems to make a pendulum out of it and I feel that more than I do anything the lure is doing. I used to use spinning reels exclusively. Then got into casting reels, and once you've used a pretty good one, if you're like me you'll notice yourself using spinning reels less and less. I still use them for some things such as tossing a weightless worm that my casting reel won't throw as well (some super high quality ones will though, but cost a good bit), or anything that's going to twist my line up some anyway such as a lightweight little inline spinner. Spinning line is twisted up no matter what. I don't want my casting reel line twisted up.

Same as my spinnerbait rod, I normally use a Shimano Compre 6'6" MH/F with Bass Pro Shops Extreme 6.4:1 ratio reel and 14 lb. Berkley Vanish Transitions fluorocarbon line. Got another rod just like this only it's a M/F and has the same reel on it but with 12 lb. line of the same type as well. I might use this if I notice I'm missing strikes due to ripping the bait out of their mouths. Sometimes I feel a slightly softer rod helps, and as soon as I get my crankbait rod I'm gonna give that a try to see how a M/MF or MH/MF rod does.

How true and man do I ever agree. It's been soooooo long since I did any serious fishing. But currently I'm off on the weekends and so is she. I work evenings and she works days. No way I'm getting away with coming home on Friday night and saying "honey, I'm going fishing tomorrow, will you stay home??" That would never fly around here. ;D

And 250+ hours for me would average out to be twenty five 10 hour fishing days. That's nearly a solid month of days dedicated to only fishing, eating, and sleeping. I'm lucky to pull 5 hours before my wife wishes we were done and wants to leave. So that could easily be 50 trips for me, which would be most every Saturday of the year. Yeah, I'd want a GOOD reel and would well feel the cost justified.

Bass Pro Shops Extreme is another good for an affordable price, especially when they're on sale. I could not be happier with the ones I have.

Thank you for that answer. Helps me a lot. Since I've read so many bad things about Hot Sauce I am of the opinion that if I could not get it off sufficiently so as to use another type of lubricant then I would just not get a Quantum for that reason alone. I guess I could live with the stained parts if that doesn't hurt anything. So long as that doesn't affect anything else when I put a different lubricant back on them again. Someone here mentioned bearings and since that was brought up I'd like to ask about Quantum's hybrid bearing. How is it made?? I keep envisioning a poly frame with steel bearing balls inside it in my head. Is it really metal to poly contact?? If so that looks like any lack of lubricant what so ever would ruin the bearings.