Paul Roberts

Yeah, a single spinner type can take you a long way. Most spinners can adequately cover a fairly wide range of conditions and situations. Notice the adequately and fairly. One often good way to approach things is to pick a lure and find water that matches it, as that's where you will catch most of your fish with that particular lure, (whether you recognize it or not). If you have a lot of that type of water to fish, this approach can catch you a lot of fish, and save you some money by keeping the bait monkey from looking over your shoulder every time you visit the spinner aisle at the tackle shop. But... Having gotten into stream trout pretty heavy, and fishing many different streams at all seasons, I found that different streams, reaches or sections of streams, through the seasons, offered very different challenges. Water levels, current intensity differences (heightened at both very high and very low extremes), presence of cover, water temperature, trout species, and the particular lie a particular trout happened to occupy, ended up favoring one spinner type and size over another. This became particularly sensitive when I got to know certain stretches really well, and where some of the larger trout held. Some big trout occupied logjams with strong currents barreling into them. Others were beneath undercuts with moderate to even slow current some surprisingly shallow. Others lived at the bottom of pool basins some within a strong eddy or "eye", others deep in a basin with either laminar or turbulent flow. Most used cover, especially wood, brush, grass, or boulders. In hard fished water (where the easy trout had been removed) precision could be absolutely critical (inches accuracy I called it). Much of the year, larger browns literally required you place the spinner, the blade engaged, just exactly right; Next to or well beneath a particular branch sometimes between or through a maze of branches. Further, I felt that the first cast was the one that counted, especially with larger browns since they were often so easily put off. Too many failed attempts would put that fish down, I believed. Even on under-fished streams, low flows in summer shrunk habitat so much that accuracy was simply critical to catch any decent trout. So, while a few lures can go a long way more are better. The bait monkey has a real purpose after all. Lures are simply tools, and some really do fit better than others.

My initial guess (like others) is that the eye position is the majority of it. But, first! Is that jighead T-rigged too? Is the hook the same length (and wire weight) as the other Mook's hook? (Sounding sorta Dr Suess here)

Great smile. Lucky boy to have someone like you.

Tin, do you remember if that day was sunny, or overcast? Which side of the lake? Is there by any chance groundwater in that trib?

Ian, you aren't making this thread confusing. The rest of us are. Good stuff though, much of it. Sounds like some new threads could be started. So, you've got some bass in that wood... The bass can certainly become jaded, esp to a similar presentation, or just by sloppy presentation. But, the one going through ahead of you very likely missed fish, may have picked up only the more aggressive fish, and may not have fished it as accurately as it could be. They may miss more or bigger fish holding deeper, or in the denser areas, as you suggest. Definitely worth trying. This in fact is Denny Brauer's strength. And yes, fish could be moved deeper in by fishing pressure. I'd work harder on getting in to the darker places, and spend more time at it. Your "speed' will come from efficiency. If you are confident you can get a jig into such places -do it. That's a place where jigs shine. I'd also have a follow up: a worm, creature, craw, tube, or SB. Multiple casts to each good spot, and/or letting it hang longer in there, could turn a few. If you suspect there's a good catch in there, re-visit it after things have settled down some -if that's an option.

Hey dats stooopid evrbdee no dat! Ooop i frgt! ddnt meen ta dis ya. wat i meens dats da rel dope no wat im sayin? reel Pw'r. lik he sed BE NICE TO EVERYONE WHO POSTS!!!! er sompin lik dat

Excellent post Matt Fly. The only thing I'd add to that first sentence is that prey availability appears to factor in huge as a motivating factor for bass activity, even in temperature extremes. Southern waters generally produce more food than northern waters, and this plays a big role in bass activity levels and growth. And you are right that 50F is 50F to most bass N or S. This is esp true because most bass we chase N to S are not native strains specifically adapted to their waters. Most of us share the same challenges in terms of basic bass behavior and conditions (clarity, sky, weather). Then there's that cabin fever thing...go easy on us. We can only tolerate that until...about...February

Reel: Either, as long as the gear ratio is quick enough to recover line between jerks. Rod: The important part. It needs to be instantly responsive, and that means a stiff tip. A soft tip absorbs your efforts at jerks and virtually nullifies the subtle twitches when you want them. With a soft-tipped rod I find myself working way too hard, and looking like I'm doing some kind of dance to get that plug to dance. Once a friend of mine had a soft -tipped rod that he accidently broke about 4inches off the tip. That rod turned into his favorite jerkbait rod instantaneously. I use spinning for the smallest baits, and either for the larger.

Awesome! You guys deserve 'em.

Well sight unseen I'd break the lake down into fishable regions. Choose an area that has potential and try shallow thru deep on good structure/cover. Pretty much what you guys did. I'd also like to know what the forage base is: smelt, alewives, shad, perch, bluegills, crayfish... That might help me narrow things a bit in location and bait. You hit some fish relatively shallow. I'd check that out further (which I assume you did). Assuming these were smallmouth I'd even do this if they were smaller fish bc sm are more apt to be in mixed size groups (although I don't know if this continues into winter). And I'd expand from there, checking nearby. I'd probably go with a presentation that can be fished slowly but triggers well: Jerks (shallow), a bladebait deeper. I'd also have a hair jig with pork strip trailer as a follow up -that is I wouldn't leave a promising without trying this. If there are largemouth, I'd slow-roll a heavy SB between good green vegetation clumps on flats out to the outer edge ("Crystal" lake probably has a fairly deep weedline). Ditto the hair jig follow-up. I'd sure look for hard areas within or nearby -rock. That would be my pre-trip plan. There, I said it! Even better, I'd like to hear from the other northern, esp NEers who regularly fish these waters this late in the game.

Excellent post. Thank you! Staying on 'em right to ice-up. 8-)

That's a challenge neither of us can meet. You need a spell checker and I need an editor with a lot of patience.

Man, that will be a challenge for me!

Everyone has a "pre-trip post", at least in their head. Stuff your ego , and tell us what happened, what you saw, what you might have done different.

Aye!!

X2 Please!

It's been a long while but once upon a time I spent A LOT of time fishing for trout on small to medium sized streams with spinning tackle. I used RT, PM, and Mepps. They all catch trout, but, like all lures each have their advantages. Roostertails: I really liked a black #2 RT a lot. It was my favorite on woody brown trout cricks. The flash from the willow blade is just great, and they fish around and over cover really well. They often need a quick tug with the rod tip to engage the blade, or re-start it after contacting something just make it part of the retrieve. I think this spinner takes the most practice, to get the most out of them. RTs are pretty buoyant which allows them to be backed into hard to reach spots, or fished over obstructions without hanging fairly well. They are also pretty snag-proof. The blade is long enough to shield the hooks when it contacts a branch. If you are deft on the retrieve, the blade stops on the branch and the lure will slide right over. Retrieve too firmly, or try to jerk it away, and you'll hang that lure. With practice it can be fished through some pretty gnarly tangles. Mepps Aglias: These are more buoyant than RTs, and the slowest in speed of the three; Good for keeping the lure in place longer, in winter, and in slow water without current support, as in fishing with the current, whereas the RTs I used mostly casting downstream. They engage pretty well but may need a kick-start, but less so than the RT. I used 00 (tiny and most buoyant of all a great thin water spinner) thru #2 (another snag-less spinner and great on big browns), and #3 or #4 for steelhead. Panther Martin: I used all sizes. They are more compact, heavier than the other two, and fish faster. The smaller ones are buoyant enough to fish shallower, or somewhat slowly. The larger sizes are heavy and fast. They engage immediately which is great for pinpoint casts to very small strike zones. They snagged easier than the others so I used them in somewhat more open pools, although accurate casting can get you into a lot of places. I liked them for running deeply down, or across (a great trigger), a riffle or pool, or backing into a faster deeper brown's lair (that provides current support). Their speed makes them great for fishing quickly and deeply though pools, and trout really like the speed and flicker. If I had to choose a set of spinners to cover most of the stream trout situations I fished it would be: Mepps 00 (small trout, very shallow), Mepps Aglia #1, #2 (big small-stream browns). Roostertail #2 (black/silver, and white/silver for roiled water) Panther Martin #1 (almost interchangeable with Mepps00 or 0), #2, and #4. If my FF buddies ever saw some of my photos from the early days, they'd probably dis-own me LOL. I doctored my spinners some too: The trebles were often too damaging to small trout and I went to single hooks on many of my spinners. I also bent the wire shaft just behind the line tie on some of my spinners (RTs, M) to about a 40deg angle, which reduces line twist substantially on a slow retrieve if you do this make sure you leave enough wire so the bend doesn't crowd the clevis. Regardless, every now and then nip off the spinner, cut back, then hang the line out in the current to remove the twist otherwise, you'll be sorry. Notice the bent shaft (In-lines are dyno on bass too lots of people have forgotten that it seems):

Uggghhh...oh man...so sorry to hear... With a lesser fish, that would have been a lesser mistake. Such events are not predictable. Reminds me, the 8lb fluoro on my jerkbait rod is frayed about 20 feet in. I'm going to the garage RIGHT now to take care of it.

Thanks. Yeah, they sure do pack it on in fall.

Oh, I just re-read the question. And now I understand it LOL! Sorry for the tangent.

Since we are sliding into winter (fast) try Googling: "ice fishing" bass Very interesting, and encouraging. First ice is a "hot" time. What about just before first ice? Two good ones: www.nodakoutdoors.com/bass-ice-fishing.php http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine/exclusives/if0601_IceBass/

Simp, how are you using your Smartcast? Bassnub, you are not alone: Read the post "Small Pond Frustration in the Fall".

I think I understand the question. When faced with lots of cover, do you fish every inch of it? I guess if you know there are lots of fish in that cover, great. The more aggressive the better. If not, and esp in cold water, then painstakingly working through it all may not be the best use of your time. You don't want to get into a needle in the haystack situation, unless there are a lot of needles. I guess I'd look at the bigger picture. What parts of that cover is closest to the key parts of a structural element? Closest to the creek bend, the steep drop, the edge of the flat, or has the best mix of cover? Which is warmest? Which appears to have baitfish? Which is the densest section of cover? Etc.... The best option may be reducing the size of the haystack. Sometimes LOTS of cover isn't best. If you can find a similar key structural element that has good but more isolated cover, you'll have less to work through. Key parts of a structure (for your water at that time) and adequate but more isolated cover, and you could find lots of needles in a small haystack. If you can't discern anything unique, you may just have to hope you run into the bunch. My guess is those late fall bass will not be spread all through the cover. They'll be bunched up. You'll have to find them. Use maps sonar and your eyes and knowledge of that water to find something that offers the best draw.

I'd be looking for warming water on the smaller waters. Keep tabs on S facing shorelines (NE to NW). Those bass should respond. It might not happen until mid-morning to mid-afternoon. Hopefully there is good habitat somewhere along that N shore. Watch for small prey fishes showing up. But, it may depend on the temp trend -the previous weather. If you walk into a big water temp drop (6deg or more), things may be tough. You may be better off targeting deeper fish, and/or the larger water body, which holds more heat and won't be affected so drastically. Let us know what you find.

I'm fishing small waters entirely. Water temps were low 50s 2 weeks ago, dropped to around 50 last week following a front, and this week we've pretty much slipped into winter. Another cold front took us down another notch, and nights are staying cold. On a pond today the very surface at the north shoreline was 49F, but the rest was 46F from 2 thru 10 feet. The sun just can't penetrate. Days are darn short too Fished the pond from shore, for 2-1/2hrs, and blanked. I chose the warmest day of the week (air high 55F today, and temps will erode through this week) with overcast. I should have chosen a different pond -a smaller one so location is less of a question. I believe I was near fish today as this bank has held fish spring through fall in the past. But I can't be certain -not so much as a nip. The only active things I saw were muskrats, waterfowl, and bicyclists -all endotherms LOL. I did see carp, rolling gently. A couple weeks back (at 55F ST) carp were actively rolling and chasing each other. A few even breached! (Is this that autumn pre-spawn thing again??) Today, it looked like they were gulping air -like giant shad. The latest I've fished this pond was Nov 10th last year with water temps 48 to 51. I wrote in my journal that there were some bass on the north shoreline (gets sun) but the most I could accomplish were a couple wakes and nips at my Rap -sound familiar? I would have blanked but found a pod of bass behind a notable dense (and dead) weed clump -a piece of isolated cover. Four bass took a 4" creature bait fished with short pauses, and slight accelerations. All four bass took on the accelerations. One leapt four times, despite the cold water. Today, as there were no visible clumps to target I fan-casted with a small slow-rolled SB, a Rogue (5-15sec pauses), and a drop-shotted soft jerk. That Rogue sure has a nice action. The wide lip makes it roll and flash with the slightest tug. I liked it, but the fish could care less. I think it would might have been a good idea to add a few small brushpiles along this shoreline that might draw a few bass. If I had had to find those bass I'd found last year by fan-casting, I might easily have missed them -they didn't move for the jig, and were particular about the retrieve. 32251, that was a nice bass. Congrats! A number of people have mentioned that hopping retrieve for cold water, for jigs, chatters, SBs, and bladebaits. I fished my SB today that way, as well as just straight extra slow retrieve. I think I just missed whatever fish might have been nearby. Also, this particular pond has lots of dead filamentous algae that make touch down messy. I tried to fish just above bottom, but not let the lures touch down. Maybe going T-rigged in some fashion, so I can let it rest some, might have helped. Again, lots a variables. Tougher I think, when you can't roar off to other water. You fish what you've got in front of you. Such is pond fishing. I like to try to "figure 'em out" in the water in front of me, but, the downside of this particular pond was apparent today. I'm going to get some fishing in right to ice-up. I'll mostly stick to the very smallest waters so I can concentrate on presentation. And I'm going to pop in a few brush piles too.