Paul Roberts

I too have caught bass very similar to this that were not genetic oddballs, but due to the bass adjusting coloration to the immediate surroundings. Pale fish with no markings I've seen in roiled waters (usually greenish fish), or from deep or open water with little cover greenish or bluish fish. But, this particular bass caught by SpeedWorm could very well represent a genetic mutation for coloration. What is odd is the uniformity of color, a blue, like a loss of yellow/green pigment as he suggests. If that bass came mixed in with other bass, and in shallow cover, my guess is it is indeed a genetic oddball. I've discovered two color variants in ponds I fish. These are not mutants but due I think to a separate life history pattern within the same water body. Most bass in these ponds are the usual yellow/green, and relate to milfoil. But I discovered some fish that appear to live away from the dense cover. I discovered them trolling over open water while heading to favorite milfoil beds. These bass are a yellowish rusty-copper coloration and are caught over the beds of Chara that form a low blanket over most of the bottom of these ponds. My guess is these bass specialize on crayfish that likely live in these Chara beds. But that's just a guess; I haven't killed any to examine stomachs. Copper Bass

Interesting!

That's fishin'. That's why they call it fishin', not catchin'. Someday's are just like that. Shoulda' been here last week. ... OK.. $%%)@!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm...I've heard people talk of fall spawning bass but I've never seen it nor have I heard of any "official" documenting of it. I've seen 3" fingerlings, too early in the spring to be spring hatched and always wondered about them. Some spring spawning species have had fall spawning individuals documented -rainbow trout, chain pickeral, and green sunfish. How sure are you that they were beds, and not just fish resting on clear bottom patches? The fry could be sunfishes as many do spawn late in the year. I commonly find very small 1+" sunfish in early spring. It's a wonder they survive the winter, but obviously some do.

I haven't tried all the stickworms out there, by any means, but none so far do what the Yamamoto/Kinami do. The salt content of the GY baits gives them such density that they sink like rocks which gives that flutter to the ends. This salt content is also what makes them so fragile. Because of cost and bait loss I tend to use them sparingly -tough bites in deeper water (>6ft). I use other stick worms too though, and more often than GY baits. That fat shape is just really attractive to bass. I choose the other brands for the slow rate of fall they offer, which is great in shallower water, and to keep a bait falling a bit longer, or twitching in place longer (wacky'd). To gain more action from them I soften them by boiling. These baits are a lot less expensive than GY baits, and more durable. In shallow water they work really well. I've not tried weighting them with a nail weight, which along with boiling might help them compete with the GY baits where they shine -deeper water.

It takes a lot to turn a lake over. Basically surface waters cool enough to nearly match deeper waters in temp, then a good wind usually ruptures the weakened density barrier. You'll notice a color change to the water -dingier with suspended material, sometimes bubbling gases, sometimes an odor. No, it won't re-stratify -That takes some time too. The sun is now too weak and days to short to allow it.

Before you get too excited about non-native bass for your pond, especially F1 florida/northern, check out these articles: http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/research/page/2/ Scroll down to: It's All in the Genes http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/research/page/4/ Scroll down to: Texas Lunker Bass: Genetics Part 2

Should be a neat project. Find the food. Find out what the forage is, and then where it hangs out. Shoot your Fisheries people an email. I chase weeds around bc that's where everything hides.

Fall is just a label; It's not suddenly fall one day. Instead, it's a set of developing conditions actually of eroding solar energy. The transition is rapid because daylength change accelerates in late summer. By the time Sept 22nd rolls around we're sliding into it fast the weather just lags some, trailing behind. This is MUCH more pronounced the further north you go. Hence, Raul's, Huh! What's fall! Here's how it sets up in my area: I fish shallow vegetated waters in northern Colorado and southern NY. I see the first major change following the first really cold cold fronts (40-50F nights). (BTW: My waters are too shallow to stratify, so I don't have to deal with turnover). I've seen years when something akin to summer hangs on well into September. But most years we get hit by serious cold fronts by then. In some waters (the shallowest that really heat up in summer and reach inefficient temps for bass) I see daytime action increasing just from gradual erosion of temps. I call that late summer but it's not the spectacular feeding binges we associate with fall. I wonder if this gradual erosion period is as much fall as far southern waters get. Those first cold nights knock temps down from summer highs, and then those Indian summer days re-heat the shallows. I look for shallow bass to turn on. Following chilling (water temps down into the 60s overnight), good warming days that bring surface temps back up strongly can bring on very aggressive fish and intense midday fishing. I call this early fall when the sun is still high enough and days just long enough to re-heat chilled shallows. On all but the brightest flat calm days I also call it buzzbait time! These cold nights also kill off shallow vegetation, exposing prey fishes. A feeding binge results and my bass start showing bulging bellies. As fall wears on, the sun gets too low in the sky and the days too short to effectively re-heat the shallows. I then look for bass away from shore on remaining live weed beds. It's not that all the bass come shallow in early fall, then all go deep. There are deep bass all summer and fall. But aggressive shallow bass can be pretty easy. As fall progresses, shallower weeds die back and not only expose prey fish but also expose bass, and they begin collecting where the remaining cover is kind of a reverse of pre-summer. By late fall, the mature bass in that water body are exposed and collecting up on deeper weed beds. This is trophy time. You probably know that most big bass are caught in the spring. It's not just because of the spawn. It's also because they are exposed. Big bass are most susceptible from late fall through spring. In the fall, they begin to collect up on remaining cover, and then head to the best available winter quarters. Fall is not a period, but a transition, that brings on really good fishing when bass noticeably fatten up. The above is how it seems to pan out in the waters I fish. Weed free reservoirs, those that stratify (and turn over), and those with a pelagic food base (shad) respond differently.

Ridiculous. Agree with Raul 100%. I do pay attention to weather forecasts, and try to plan my fishing days for the best (fishing) weather. But sometimes I plan them for the worst weather, just to see what might happen: Usually I get my butt kicked. Tomorrow is just such a day -brilliant blue. Bass will be active, but it'll be a bear not spooking them, and then convincing them I'm offering real food. Interesting challenge though.

Man...the simple answer? lb for lb, rod for rod: Smallmouth. Largemouths in most places we catch them do not have the speed, quickness, or stamina. Nor do they leap as willingly, high, or often. But... I've found largemouth's that could almost compare to smallmouths, and they were caught in cover-free water in the mid to upper 70s water temps. Such fish, (out of several different water bodies) have shocked me with there near-smallmouth stamina, and their ability/willingness to jump up to 4 times. The cover-free part is important: LMs head for cover when in danger. They are notorious to fisheries workers using seines -LMs being nearly unseine-able. I've had LM's swim into not only weeds and wood, but muskrat holes too! If want one in the boat, keep it's head up. But notice I said "almost compare" and "near-smallmouth". A smallie in prime conditions is a bear to get a thumb on. They can wear you down. Ask Rick Clunn! I think smallies can throw a bait as easily as a largemouth, but are often less apt to because, I believe, they often bite down on a bait when they leap. Their leaps are more a flip or catapult into the air, rather than the slow, wide-gaped head thrashing of LM. Not sure if they are really comparable. Pickeral are spectacular fighters and are near the top of my list. But, being so narrow in body depth, they need to be caught on light tackle (soft rod/light line) to experience what they can do. They are mighty fast! Small northern pike can be almost as spectacular on appropriate tackle. Hybrid pike/musky ("norlunge") can be spectacular. I've had some jump high, wildly, and repeatedly like a smallmouth. But most do not. Not counting SW fish, I'd easily put bright fresh-run steelhead in the top spot. They are simply ungodly fast, jump higher and with more abandon than anything I've tied into. Bright fresh coho salmon are next. Chinooks are down on my list -they are big and fast, but rarely spectacular. In fact, they all do pretty much the same thing. Big striped bass are similar I've found.

X2. Watch those fronts. Here, it's usually a good snowstorm that finally puts the nail in the coffin. By then the days are too short and sun too low to make it back up. It's "winter". Very well put. Science is about isolating variables. In fishing, we simply have to juggle way too many variables to qualify what we do on the water as science. Some things are more important than others; Sounds like you are on the right tack.

Curious: Is this the same water, the dead horse, you were having trouble with this summer?

I've spent a lot of time exploring little streams. My Dad and I fished every little crick in our area; He was a creek runner too. I've lost streams too, to development. No one even notices them. So sad. Nice to know others out there notice too. Dave, Very nice post.

My guess is: 14-3/4" and 1-3/4lbs. But, I doubt you actually weighed it.

I don't weigh most of my fish. I used to, with a calibrated scale, and still carry one. but it is something of a hassle,and I only do it for extraordinary fish now. After I'd done this enough I can pretty much tell. I do measure a lot of fish, against marks on my fishing rod. Knowing length, and judging body condition, you can be pretty close. I think this is really good info. Many people really don't know what ballpark an 18" bass weighs. They catch a nice bass and later wonder, "How big was that one?" Good charts can get you in the ballpark. Thanks, RW.

Those numbers look pretty good.

Fourbizz, What do you make of the red tail on that fish? Did it have red tooth pads too? Just curious.

One of my regular fishing buddies from back east wore a set of Jamaican dread-locks, and as we traveled around to fish, every once in a while he'd have some sort of racist encounter. And sometimes it really got to him. He'd put up his hood, and get real quiet. He'd look like he just walked in off a gangsta' movie set -such a contrast to his normally affable self. He was someone who moved in both worlds really well. He could hang with the brutha's, and talk trout stream entomology with the experts with equal ease. Those racist encounters were reminders of how separate he could be from parts of society. He was young at the time, 16, and just wanted to fit it. Some times, like when others got seated at a restaurant before us, even though we arrived first, we were just left to wonder, Was it an oversight? Or...something else. Not knowing where you stood was difficult. In new turf, the feeling seemed almost relentless. He handled himself really well. Sure opened my eyes though. So, I can't suggest you just forget about it. I have no suggestions. It just sucks.

Dinosaur. His kind are going extinct. Must've been some of his last dying throes. Sorry you had to be there to hear 'em. Hey! Welcome to BassResource. Pop in another thread to introduce yourself, if you like: Where you fish, how you like to fish, ...

I've tried it but my machine just won't run it.

Make your rod into a tape measure. Heck your half done before you even start! Put dots every inch with phosphorescent vinyl fabric paint (cheap at every craft store). Coat with rod epoxy, 5min epoxy, or clear nail polish (which requires touch-up every now and then). I suggest the glow color bc you can "fire it up" when night fishing. See dots along lower side of rod. BTW: I know of no real problem with laying a fish next to a rod.

VERY interesting topic. Catt: I've read about this daily shad movement, on the Yamamoto site. It reminded me of a similar, and quite spectacular, inshore movement of spottail shiners at dusk on Oneida Lake in NY. If you were fishing close to shore, the evening and morning bites could be great. But offshore fish would have to wait for brunch. However, I've read that, in many if not most waters, shad are known to move away from shore at night, supposedly to avoid predation. An internet friend who fishes offshore in a spotted bass/threadfin fishery has mentioned his records show his best fishing is midday as well. He says he isn't sure if it simply takes him that much time to locate active fish, or whether they "turn on" at that time. He hasn't commented on where his shad spend the night. fishIzzle: X2 on both points. FishChris, I have to ask...But WHY????? Why do you think you catch more large bass at midday?

I only know of one bit of info regarding this. Doug Hannon tried releasing large bass (>10#) he caught and tagged into other water bodies, and found that they were caught and killed pretty quickly. He attributed this to the fact that he feels exceptionally large bass are large because they are aggressive feeders, and less vulnerable to angling where they grew up. When released into new water, they were still aggressive, and being displaced, became vulnerable to angling. Hannon says he stopped relocating bass because of this. Hmmm...I seem to remember research on relocated bass..tournaments I think...where some bass became roamers, never settling down into any location. Whether this was their habit before capture is an obvious question. A number of telemetry studies have shown that some bass (not relocated ones) are roamers.

If it is a "pond" (small water) than most certainly they know their water and will head back home. If it's a larger more complex water body (a euphemistic "pond") then check this site for recent research on the subject. Go through the "research" section pages. There are several good pieces on bass movements following relocation (in tournaments). http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/research/