Everything posted by primetime
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Punching emergent timber
I doubt you will need to go as heavy as 3/4 oz unless it is really deep or the fish are super aggressive which is rare....When I fish timber or flooded brush, I tend to start with 1/4-3/16 and make sure you pitch to areas that nobody else is getting too. I used to worry about getting the fish out before getting the strike, and over the years I have realized that even if you have to bomb your bait over 2 tree limbs, sometimes when you swing hard, the fish will come out and come flying at you especially if it is deeper water and the bait is falling fast... I have used 1/2-3/4 in 18 feet of water punching Weed mats which is rare since most water is under 10 feet in Florida where I fish, but in this lake the water was clear, and they often prefer a Rage Bug or Rage Craw with a heavier weight as they are aggressive, competitive, and in the clear water the faster fall can help, but normally I always try to go the lightest I can but also enough weight so I am not missing targets or having to giggle it etc... You may find a weightless worm works best, or a 1/8 oz, but either way try small baits to big worms or whatever you have confidence in and like Catt Mentioned, Hit multiple angles from the trunk (Try not to hit the trunk for noise reasons) and be patient and really pay attention as to when and where your bites are coming...Bottom when still, shaking, the lift off, suspended etc....I like picking cover apart and sometimes it just takes alot of shots for bigger fish, but you may want to use heavy fluoro leader for abrasions as braid can be rough around some wood and loud.... Hope that helps...Don't forget your Jigs either....1/4 arkie jig or whatever Jig you like....But plan on losing baits, I leave my Tunsten at home if I am throwing into wood since line frays easy....Just my take...And you can always go in and get a fish....The best strikes usually come when you put the bait in areas that seem impossible for many reasons, but you will catch fish...Bass Love some Wood.
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Color ?
I am always loaded up with Motor Oil Red Power Worms, Trick Worms, Charlies high floater swimming worms in Motor Oil/Chart tails, and It's funny that you mention that as your favorite color...I think most people call it watermelon Red now, but It does have that added chart/change over flash, which I think makes it one of the better colors in stained water due to flash and also works well in clear water as it matches forage...I stocked up on Grubs about a year ago and have packs of the 2 colors you have plus the Kalins avacado is good as well...I was lucky to come across a huge lot of Kalin's baits a few years ago and stocked up on all colors and I have cases full of grubs and swimbaits I need to go through one of these days...My biggest bass To Date came on a Motor Oil Chart changeover (It get's rejected at the Factory and they call it "Flashing???) but I had a bunch of big Ribbon Tails in the color and they look olive in one light, and then gold or Green in the water and I wish companies would sell the color instead of rejecting it....You can have guys who hand pour do a Change Over or Oil change and I still have yet to see it on the market, I guess Flashing is bad, Charlies has a great Motor Oil color, old school companies still make some good ones... I just went down memory lane...I do have a bunch of Trick Worms that were rejects that I told the local supplier to grab on his trip, and sure enough he came back with the standard finesse worms in the Motor oil green/chart flashing color which they don't sell, but it is better than any colors they do sell....Pumpkinseed was a mistake, and that was the top seller for a few years...I know grape was the #1 10 years ago, and I think he told me Electric Grape, then it went to Green pumpkin the last few years and now Junebug and Black and blue are catching up but this Blue Magic color is getting a huge following down here as it looks like green pumpkin but as it swims it gives off blue flashes and watermelon blue is "A secret Florida Color"....So is Black, Blue and chartruese....Fry Chaser or something like that...
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What color Silicone would you use to make this a swim Jig?
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing...I notice they have a few new mixes of Road kill but I figure I will grab some Road Kill, Also some gold neon for highlights, chartruese gold and I need to get some highlight colors anyhow so I may try a Whiskey Gold, I have some that looks really gold, and for some reason I am not a fan of the shiner scale patterns.... I like the mix...Wired, Dalmation, and looks like the standard as well....I have a hard time spending less than $150 whenever I buy skirts and hubs, jig heads, so I want to keep this batch to just a simple plan...6 colors, and I am not letting myself get carried away as it get's addicting for me....I am in love with that Lighting Bug Color that they have, it works great here in Florida, also the Cali 420 mixes for punching is really a good color...I have been using Black Red flake, Green Pumpkin big Red flake, and then some brown Red and it is really good.. In reality, I need to just buy Black, Brown, GP, Watermelon, White, Chart, and then a few packs of HL colors, but Seeing that Roadkill which was out of stock the last time I ordered in the type I wanted has me ready to order.... Thanks for the help...That color will go great with any color, Hopefully this color works as well as the Floating Rip baits....Was happy to find that color, I only had 1 left, so why not a jig???
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What is your favorite floating worm or stick bait?
Trick Worm without Salt, Z-Man has a bunch of nice finesse worms, I also like the Lunker City Sluggo SS which is a nice thin Sluggo that has a really good action when fished quickly, or on a shaky rig etc... I agree with the above post, you can get any bait to stand vertical on the bottom with a stand up style jighead, so sometimes I like a simple curly tail worm, nothing fancy, but I also like ringed baits since rings keep the bait as more of a "Floater" so a simple ringed worm is always in my bag and so is a few packs of Roboworms but at the end of the day...Zoom Trick worms get most of the work for me for a finesse worm or floating worm, and I have a few other brands I have purchased due to color etc. which all work the same for me... The Pro Senko is a really good bait as a change up from the regular senko, or add bulk with the Fat Ace or Wave Worm fat sticks which when on sale are a great deal...I have done well with some of those swirls they make....
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What color Silicone would you use to make this a swim Jig?
I have been buying skirts from Skirts Unlimited and making some colors to match my favorite lures, and I want to match this Rebel Color up as close as possible but I am not sure what some colors look like.... For any expert jig makers...Would you use whiskey Gold Flake or Neon Gold as a body, chart as highlights, and really it is just a standard Chart with Gold? I am planning on buying some jig heads from Siebert and I wasn't sure if anyone knew what the River Rock looked like? I don't want the color to be all flash or have alot of scaling unless they make a gold/chart mix I am not aware of. The Red on the top of the lures is just a red sharpie that washes off but I use so I can see the bait..I don't want a bleeding bait, I think 2 of these lures have red on the back and because I actually swim these I don't want to make it permanent.... I know gold and chart seems simple but I don't want it to be overbearing, maybe mix it with a River Rock color? Any help appreciated, This color is one of my favorites in stained water & want to make some swiim jigs to match for shiners... Thanks in advance.
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Color ?
I will have to check it out...I have not been to the Kalin's website in a while, I forget they make a ton of colors and baits...I will have to try it, I always like to use colors slightly different than everyone else...Junebug Red Flake instead of Junebug....Just figure maybe it is a new look, I like Kalin's baits so thanks.
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Rage Rig!
I fish the Menace flat/also sideways on a weighted hook, 3/0-4/0, 1/8-3/16 bullet since I fish shallow most of the time, and I also fish it sideways with an open hook on a jighead like a swimbait since it gives off a side to side action. I think you should be able to find some videos on the bait,I know it is fished by tons of guys and to be honest, I don't think you can fish it wrong... I use alot of weighted hooks, I also will pitch or punch with the Menace up to an ounce into heavy cover, my favorite swim jig or pitching jig (Arkie style jig) as a trailer, I leave the tail attached if I want a gliding fall, and I seperate the tail if fish are active or if I want it to mimic a craw etc... If you rig up the Menace on say a 1/8 bullet weight and your favorite style hook, you can rig it flat and fish it on the surface like a buzzbait, just under like a wake bait, or like the Rage rig or bottom bugging which is slowly creeping it along...I use the Rage Craw, Rage Bug, and Menace as my 3 main soft baits and I always feel confident that one will get bit, or all 3...Black and blue Rage Craws are a good start to most days...They seem to catch bigger fish and as a general rule, if I can get away without pegging I will, but if lots of weeds, I simply peg and leave a few inches of play or use a screw in weight....The good thing about creature baits is you can fish them on any rig that you could think of and they will 100% work....Need to punch with 1.5 ounces? You can use a Rage Craw, Same weightless, and they still work if you lose an arm...Sometimes better... I am sure a ton of guys will offer good advice since the Rage baits are probably the most popular soft baits these days for good reason....Havoc makes some good baits as well for the rage rig if you are in a jam and can't find any Rage baits before going to the water.... Hope that helps...
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SwimJig
I like to cast out a swim Jig, and try to bang it into weeds, timber or whatever, similar to a square bill, I rarely fish it slowly on the bottom, I use it like a spinnerbait/Rattle trap, Seibert Bullet swim jigs are awesome as you can let them fall into pockets of weeds, but the key is a good soft weedguard and good hook... If you can't order from Siebert, Strike King makes a few good ones...plus you can swim an Arkie Jig as well, I find I only use 1/4-3/8, I like to swim a Rage bug or Menace on a weighted hook near the bottom, but you can't go wrong with all the above suggestions.... The Strike King Hack Attack Swim Jig is a really good over the counter Jig in all colors, they only carry 3-4 in the colors mentioned and I find White, Bluegill, black and blue, and Blue Magic all I really need....Just have a baitfish trailer and a craw style trailer ready to go...
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Senko
If you like the Gander Trick Stick..Check out Locket Lures....100 packs to the Public at low prices....I have no affiliation but my buddy buys a few hundred from them every year and the same with the swimming minnow..They make the Gander sticks and other brand soft baits...They are an arm of the OEM Tackle Tour profiled.... I find them a bit stiff personally, but He does great with them...I like the BPS brand when they go on sale and stock up, or buy them in bulk from a local supplier, usually Yum Dingers and a mix of Chompers, Wave, and few other brands....All work well. An O Ring that you use for lures can also be used for weight on a wacky rig as well as flash.
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Color ?
When in doubt...Throw Green Pumpkin....Or Black...Clear water....Watermelon or smoke will work usually....That is a good base...Then match the flake to match forrage, flash, or maybe because it looks good to you? I have been crushed by a Pink Worm, Pink Swirls, and a banana colored trick worm....Not sure why but sometimes they want a bright color, I have had a few days in my life where Metholianate in the summer kills em like nothing else, but usually in Florida Tanic Water I stick with Blacks, Purples, and flash colors....GP/Amber flake is one of my favorites in all water colors...GP/Gold...Hard to beat...Hot sunny day...Saphire blue is often very good, even on dark days...Something about that silver flake in the blue, makes a great color not sure why... Always carry Chart dip or a marker....It helps...I truly believe a black worm with a chart marker could get you through most days....same with a Junebug worm or creature.... If a secret color existed....That worked all the time....I wish I knew what it was....I could eliminate about 3/4 of my tackle.... I think I buy lots of colors because I like to buy fishing tackle? and the "Just in case" excuse seems to allow me to execute purchases without guilt.
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Rage Rig!
Awesome, yes, the Rage rig with any Rage Craw, Menace etc. will flat out catch fish...It also works good as a toad on top if you happen to see a fish break water nearby even if you have a weighted hook on...... I use alot of Black and blue baits and skirts,and I did them or use the Marker to add some chart,and sometimes you can't see it until it hits the water but I seem to think it helps at times...I like to dip most plastics in chartruese in stained water and during/Post Spawn, but I just think the Rage Craws, Bugs etc. work so well because they glide so naturally, move water, and the legs really kick if you put more weight on the Rage Craws....They can get expensive but then again, that is a good problem to have, torn up baits or a boat full of ripped baits = a good day.... Only other bait I would highly Suggest if the Rage Menace...One of my favorite all around baits for any soft plastic technique....It is the Rage craw of Grubs...Good post. It always feels great to change something up and have it work out... You really can't fish a Rage Craw or Menace, Rage Bug the wrong way...Any weight, even topwater, Jig Trailer...They catch fish, and you can rig them on any rig on the market....
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Frogs
I love fishing Frogs and I love trying all the new models etc... Their are so many good frogs on the market today, but if I had to pick the best (Pound for Pound considering Price etc...here are a few good one's, and I am sure I am leaving out a ton....I like more frogs than I don't like... 1-Pad Crusher, Jr. And Poppin pad Crusher by Booyah...They go on sale Buy 1 get one 50% often, so for $10 you get 2 really good frogs. Soft, easy to use, not the best heavy cover frogs but you can add weight. 2- Live Target is great in all sizes, 45 T for small, really good hooks, 55T is best all around size in the line up imo, and 65 T is really good. 3- Spro Frogs, Scum Frog Trophy and Old School, Snag Proof Poppin Frog is a beast around cover, it is a poppin frog that can handle the heavy stuff, and it is nice and solid with good hooks, legs set up to not get in the way....Or Bobby's Perfect Frog, Ish Phat Phrog...River2sea Bully Wa...and I like the Strike King KVD frogs...I know some don't but I like the rattle and they are a good frog... I would always carry a rat with me as well...The Scum Frog rats are awesome and I am starting to think that Rat baits are better on many days since you can fish them faster (Rats do panic when in water) Frog fishing generally works better when done slow....Just make sure with the Live Target Rats or Mouse you bend up the hooks and make sure they do not go into the body when setting the hook... There is a blog done by a guy who tests out every frog and I tend to like many of his picks, his top 5 frogs, and Toads are hard to argue with, I would just add the new Rattling Scum Frog with 4/0 owner hooks and external rattles....Plus super flat body make it a skipping dream... I just love to find a reason to buy new frogs....These are some of my favorites I pulled out of one of my boxes for a trip...The Spro Bronze Eye shad on the upper left are really good and come through pads excellent and some complain about frogs taking on water, but you can fix that easy, or squeeze em...
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Fathers Day Sale
I have been eyeballing your 5 pack discounts on Swim Jig Heads and new Bullet Jig heads and now is the time...I should have some extra money in my Pay Pal account but I need to take advantage of the prices...Plus I need some Tungsten weights and it is getting hard to find good quality 1/4 oz Arkie Jigs and you have a few types that are good...Plus I need a Pack of Space Monkeys. Did they stop making the Space Monkey? I like that bait. Guess you like Arkie jigs? Very Nice..Now the fun part....Dressing them up...
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PADDLE TAILS TECHNIQUES??????
I agree with the above...I have been reeling them steady at times when fishing is slow when I look down and see a Bass trailing it....I have noticed that when I play around with speed, like killing it every so often or letting it drop a foot in the water column, add extra weight and speed it up to get more kick or vise versa... I agree, often they want it slow rolled and killed, hopped, but You really can't fish them wrong..I like to wake them near the surface on a weighted swimbait hook and I swim them pretty fast, if I see a wake burst out from somewhere, I kill it and then speed it up making it look like it is wounded and making one last burst....Sometimes it works, sometimes they want it really slow...Sometimes the little things matter, but I always like to add a "hitch" at least once or 2x during a retrieve to make it look like it is dis oriented. Think of a swimbait like a Square bill crankbait or a swim Jig...Most good strikes seem to come when ripping it out of weeds or after it deflects etc...Usually in the Summer I prefer slow since big bass usually will not chase a bait that is moving fast unless it comes right in front of them.... Heavier Jig Head or weight = more thump...Lighter weight to me = more finesse....Weight is not only for depth....Hope that helps.
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Spinner ID
It has a good quality ball bearing swivel so I would agree, it is probably a Strike King although Strike King usually stamps the blades? It could be a BPS brand Lazer eye, or another but either way, It looks like a Strike King you find at Dicks...
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How to Rig 4.8" Keitech Swing Impact Fat?
I nose hook them at times with a Weedless wacky hook when I want to fish them weightless....But you can also use any jighead or weighted swimbait hook, or a screw lock hook...I like the screw locks only because I feel I can keep the bait straighter but they are also good on a weighted hook with a blade underneath...
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Smaller flipping hooks for compact punching
The VMC Flipping hooks come as small as #2. I rarely go smaller than 1/0 and they tear up baits since most of the hook is tubing to keep the bait in place, but they are good if you are not going super heavy with line.... BPS makes good hooks for flipping in the Magna Lock or super locks and they come in smaller sizes, I usually use 3/0-4/0 on most baits, 5/0 is heavy duty, Just make sure you match the hook to line. I know with VMC they make 2 types of flipping hooks...One is a thinner guage, one is much thicker, I would visit the VMC website and I am sure they give line ratings..The one's I have in #1-1/0 are very small and I never go heavier than 14lb test but that is just me....Smaller gap is less likely to bend anyhow....
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Storm Chug Bug: Snap. Yes or no?
I only use a snap if I remove the split ring that comes with the lure...I don't like a snap to split ring.... I used to be anti snap and preferred to simply tie directly to the split ring, but sometimes lures come with cheap rings and if you are not careful you can tie your knot on the weak point of the ring causing it to come loose. It is important to tie the knot on the ring over the spot without the groove. If I use a snap, I only use quality snaps, I like the smaller saltwater grade snaps since the one's rated 30lbs are tiny, I like Spro, KVD, and the Tsunami tiny snaps and swivels... There is no right or wrong answer. Snaps are good for changing lures quickly, but they can alter the action of a lure like a minnow style lure, but for a chug bug I say either way is fine, whatever you feel is easier. Sometimes removing the split ring and tying the Rapala loop knot can help you get better action out of a lure like a chug bug and makes it easier to fish over weeds. If the snap is big, it pulls the head down creating a louder pop, but makes it harder to walk etc...Hope that helps...I am sure responses will be 50/50.
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Yum Dingers
I think the line, hook, size, color is more important than brand at this point in the game....Every company has a stick worm and it is not like the GYB recipe can't be copied so the salt content is identical etc.... I think the reason many people think GYB Senkos are the best is because they truly believe they are the best, and therefore have more confidence when fishing them..I use many brands and I do use some GYB worms because I feel they offer colors that are slightly different, GYB does a great job of really focusing on small details that I feel can help when facing pressured Bass that see the same standard colors all day long.... I love the Strike King Ocho since it reminds me of fishing a flat sided crankbait, it has more flash than any other stick worm and I like to work a stick worm more than most people, I start out fishing it like a Fluke, and the Ocho imo is the best if you want to work it like a fluke. I have messed around with stick worms in the pool with different size hooks etc. and the difference in action is pretty dramatic with just a different hook or lighter/heavier line. Too Many variables to say one is better than the other, but if you fish with colors and sizes you have confidence in, you will do fine.... I prefer the Yum Dinger for Pitching with a weight since it has the hook slot and I like to use heavy weights up to 3/4 to punch mats, you can get a 6" Dinger through a mat with 3/4 when you need over an ounce to get a creature...The hook slot also allows you to get better hook sets and less sliding imo...But this is a topic that could go on for years with no right or wrong answer. Yum has dropped prices to compete with Havoc and Zoom which is good to see...They are also thinner than a senko but lately it seems lots of guys are using the Gambler worms, specifically the Fat Ace....
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Time of day/conditions to throw a frog?
One trick that works for me in ponds and also saves money is to use a spinning rod, MH, short like 6'-6'6 to avoid trees etc. when land fishing, and use the original Scum Frogs which only cost 2.99. The better Trophy Series are in the $5 range but come with Owner hooks and are super soft so you can get away with using spinning gear, 20lb braid, and I feel I can skip much better with a spinning rod especially from shore with odd angles. Scum Frog makes a tiny little frog that weighs 3/16, and a popping frog that is the same size. Also a mouse (My Favorite) and they are so soft and again, only $3 so if you lose one and you will, it won't hurt as badly as losing a $10 frog, or even a nice Pad Crusher. Scum Frogs in the smaller size seem to work awesome in ponds, and they catch big fish, you don't have to swing so hard to drive home 2 hooks with barbs as they are thinner guage and designed to catch anything that takes it under.....They skip awesome as well, that is why they still sell so well....I have some nice frogs and a molix Beetle hanging from the trees on the opposite shoreline where I fish, I knew it was risky but I had to try to make the perfect bank shot, and every time I fish at night I am reminded when I see the glowing Spro Frog in the tree about 20 feet off my target....But you often need to get that frog way in the back, places you normally avoid to get bit, I worry about getting them out if I hook one. Sometimes swinging hard causes the fish to follow your line out.....If lucky...But Scum Frogs work, I think it is the tiny frog that is really good and comes with a trailer hook in package.
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Tungsten vs Lead
The Ponds/lakes near my home have some tungsten weights on the bottom or in a fishes belly because I used to buy the BPS tungsten and fish it on braid just the way it was, and I always thought it was bad braid, my fault for not checking etc.... Then I started using inserts, a buddy coated my weights for me, and I have not had a problem since. I have hunted for Tungsten deals for years, tried to buy in bulk etc...Vike had the best quality imo of any company overseas but when you add in shipping etc...I would rather buy from Siebert for more options, plus I don't know how you beat his bulk Jig head prices, and bulk meaning 5 packs of Jigs that are top quality. Strike King weights are the only brands you can usually buy at retail stores other than BPS, and they seem to be fine as well. I wish I stumbled upon one of the Walmart sales I hear about where packs of weights are $5....That would make me happy. For some reason, losing a $10+ weight bothers me more than losing a $10 lure, and since this is Florida, you actually need the big weights some days, and 1.5 oz. weights are something I treasure in my box more than anything else since they are necessary at times. I do my best to make sure I don't lose them anymore, and I have found that buying them unpainted works fine, if you want to color them sharpies work fine, after all, they are falling through water with limited visibility, Silver = flash so I think it helps at times.
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Last Trip
If I hear bluegills popping, I try to get the Rebel Pop'r out there....Or a Popping frog.... Also a plastic worm of your choosing, 6" in size like a Zoom U tail will get bit weightless or with a split shot or light weight in front of it... Don't forget to carry a few Floating Minnow baits. On my last trip, I was killing smaller fish on a Tiny Torpedo and small bomber Square A, but I put on a Gold/Black F-9 Rapala on light spinning gear, 8lb test, and it seemed like I had a hit every cast for about an hour in the middle of the day....Nothing big, but lots of action..I would keep it simple...If you are fishing the right area, I sometimes think any lure presented properly will work, a Senko is hard to beat, it seems to always catch fish,same with a Culprit.....Jigs take a bit of practice to get used to and can be frustrating when a texas rig willl often get just as much attention, maybe not as big, but big fish will eat a texas rigged creature any day of the week....
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Time of day/conditions to throw a frog?
I love to throw frogs, So I always try that approach first before grabbing a Jig or any other bait or lure when weeds are around. I am not a huge fan of throwing them in open water even though I know they work, but I have had days where they will hit a frog mid day, mid summer, so I always try it.....I have been using the smaller frogs this year, the 45 T Live Target size, and fish on the edges and in lighter cover seem to slam that thing better at least so far this year....I used to only use bigger frogs, and yes they get bigger bites, but I am starting to think smaller frogs equate to better hook ups, more strikes, and are easier to place and skip in tight areas...River2sea makes a tiny frog that is 3/16 and actually casts really good and Sometimes a popping frog will work better and vise versa...I love to throw topwater, and frogs to me are the best choice most days since I prefer weedy areas almost all the time..... If you make a good half dozen casts, you should know if the topwater bite is on, For some reason mid day often yields less bites, but bigger ones...I only use a rattle in a frog when fishing on top of mats, I find a rattle is too much many days...Just my take...
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Casting crankbaits
I would practice with your reel in the yard with a casting plug that is 3/8 until you get the hang of it..I find whenever I am having issues with distance my tenion spool is too tight and I am using to much muscle... It also makes a difference on the rod, a crankbait rod should have a good amount of bend in it at the tip for 2 reasons...Treble hooks to absorb the shock, and to cast lures further. I have never used that rod, so every company makes a different rating than other companies so until you hold it is hard to tell... I have been working on getting better at cranking since it is one of my weak areas, and recently I have been trying to throw nothing else...I have been having most of my success on a small Bomber Square A which I would guess weighs 1/8 on 12lb test Mono, Med heavy Rod with what most would consider too stiff, and I can chuck it as far as I can any other lure, I just have to keep my thumb on the reel to avoid over runs at the end, but often smaller lures cast further than heavy larger lures due to aerodynamics... The best example I can think of is a Spro Popping Frog which I think weighs 1/2 ounce, and I feel I can cast that frog longer than any other frog in my box, including the 1 oz king Daddy which catches wind most days....I also never throw it when it is calm but little lures cast best when you know your reel, have it broken in, and can cast without the tension knob even on, brakes on maybe 2....I only use my wrist, and never try to cast far, it just happens....Hope that helps, you will get it....Coated braids are a nightmare, make sure you are not using a superline for distance, make sure it is a weaved braid or stick with a Nylon Mono like Trilene etc....Just my take. I find I can cast big cranks llke the Strike Kings and Rapala Dt 20's, Norman DD 22's fine if I have the right rod, and just lob them, and get the real engaged as soon as it hits the water...it is tough to get them in the strike zone without long lining, I like deep diving cranks with a bearing system that rolls inside on the cast, Yo-zuri does a great job of making lures that cast a mile, Long cast bearings make a huge difference and usually they are almost always in surf casting lures but some cranks have them....It helps.
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Jig fishing line
I have used Trilene Big Game for heavy jigs and worms many times and pound for pound I find it hard to beat...I really like that they offer it in green and clear. I also love the Price for 600 yards, but I use it in area's with heavy cover since it is abrasion resistant, designed for saltwater (that is a good thing for me) and 20lb casts very well without much memory on casting reels. I also like to use Triple Fish Camo line since I am a line watcher. They make it in 16,18, 20, and 25....You can also by a spool of 440 yards for around $10 and it has perlon added to it so it stretches back to its original shape, blends in under water but glows above the water. I know Hi Seas Recently Purchased Triple Fish lines so I expect to start seeing them in stores soon, if looking for an Armor tough line that is very affordable I find that line to be some of the best on the market for flipping/pitching and punching. I don't think I have ever had the 18lb test break on me unless it was my fault. 20lb can be a bit light in some instances but I find using anything heavier in a Mono or copoly, Fluoro to mess up my presentations.....I use Big Game in 15 and 20 for fresh and salt and it is always on at least one of my rods and has been for years, so yes, it is a great choice. I trust Berkley and Stren to make a good line since they have been doing it for son long...