Troutfisher

Well, just you, Muddy... ;D ;D ;D Speedbead, I see where you are coming from...however, I think some honest open air debate is alright. When it comes down to name calling and insulting a particular person, however, that's where I draw the line, and I'm sure other people do as well. Just remember when having a debate with someone, feel free to place informative responses, but don't resort to name calling and other immature acts. Threads like that hurt everyone.

Congrats, and nice signature! 8-)

Mr. Sense's death was a tragic loss to everyone.

And you, my friend, are a liberal-media follower. You get the facts straight off the biased prime time, and don't dare back America, as I can see, because you put down our troops directly when you say that our military is too weak to fight North Koreans. If the Iraqi people are so weak, why don't you suit up and head over, and see how weak they are? We were in Afghanistan. We took control of Kabul, and then whilst Saddam was laughing, mocking, and threatening us, we decided to take control of his country as well. -Saddam has murdered over a million people, if not more, in his time -Saddam possessed WMDs before and during the Gulf War -Saddam held more weapons that were unaccounted for after the Gulf War -Saddam used poison gas in violation of the Geneva Convention -Saddam paid 25,000 bucks to suicide bombers families who blew themselves up in Israel

Me too...nothing like hooking onto a good crappie and feeling the surge of those slab panfish Camo, you always seem to land some when I head over to this section. Good job!

Agreed...Cart, saying that we're "Bush Cheerleaders" is funny, but not true.

The U.N. is a joke within itself. They are a group of anti-American leaders who sit around, drink coffee, pass faulty resolutions, and never carry them out. The U.N. Weapon Inspectors were booted out of Iraq in 1998 by Saddam and his croonies. They had made six inspections, and Saddam got increasingly worst each time, and as just mentioned, booted them out in 1998. The U.N. had plenty of time to act: twelve years. Saddam repeatedly violated 16 U.N. Security Resolutions. He continued to seek and develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, as well as "brutalizing the Iraqi people, including committing acts such as gross human rights violations and crimes against humanity, supporting international terrorism, and refusing to release or account for prisoners of war and other missing individuals from the Gulf War." Quotes taken from "The White House: A Decade of Deception and Defiance." Only when the United States came marching on his doorstep did the dictator destroy a variety of illegal missles, which he previously denied having to the inspectors. Then, illegal drone planes were discovered that were capable of distributing poisonous gas or biological agents.

Well said, C312.

I believe that was about the time Clinton was slashing supplies for our troops and funds for the troops, right? Speaking of Clinton, listen to what he said in '98. "We gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction; we will also have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination of the region." Taken from William Jefferson Clinton, Address to the Nation on the Bombing of Iraq, December 16, 1998.

What a site! I did a project for school about how PETA funds terroristic groups like the Animal Liberation Front (ALF). The project made it all the way to the state. I really uncovered some dirt on PETA and the dirty acts they carry out. For more information like the website you posted, go to www.petakillsanimals.com

If we wanted oil so bad, why would we ship our troops halfway across the world when we could go to Mexico and get theirs, or Venezuala? Not the reason we're at war. Well, since he was no immediate danger to us, we should have let him build up more weapons, kill his own people with the snap of his fingers, and become a bully to non-terroristic states, right? Meanwhile, this fact finding committee can sit back aimlessly and observe the way he murders his own people? No. If a mad dictator is hell bent on killing his own people and us if he had the chance, then he needs to be taken out. Tell me of another madman dictator who has killed millions, and I'll bet that the U.S. will go after them as well. Saddam, Osama Bin Laden, and other madmen hate America. Peace talks and letting them do what they will is ridiculous and will never work. Blunt force are the only things these terrorists understand.

heyuguys dont kno ican spl realy good puncuation duznt mat ter does it.

I see your point and agree.

Thanks Avid. I enjoy having constructive debates with you on political issues, but always respectfully, and if I ever really tick you off, just slap me. ;D I too enjoy the site, I come here every day (yes, I need a life). I always look forward to posting fishing results here and responding to others. People like you (Avid) who I can have an honest debate with just shows our character. We can have a debate, but still come away as friends. Here, surrounded by honest guys and gals, I feel at "home" as well.

This information did not come from the Bush offices, it came from Fox News. Did you not just read my post? WMD's were found. By the way, even if no WMD's were found (which they were), going to war for the wrong reasons is not necessarily bad. Abraham Lincoln went to war not to free the slaves, but that was what happened. By the way, WMD's were not the main reason we went to war. A murderous dictator who killed 1,000,000 of his own people might just be a valid reason. Gas is $2.09 around here.

Agreed...they deserve the worst! Can't stand them. >

Agreed GMAN!

I suppose Avid, that we should have waited until Saddam had killed people in the United States before we attacked him, right? We should have waited until he came over here and slaughtered some of our people first. It had now been proven that Saddam was creating and had in possession WMD's such as Mustard Gas and other chemical weapons. A senior Bush administration official told Fox News that the sarin gas shell is the second chemical weapon discovered recently. Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group (search) a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective." They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account when he made his weapons declaration shortly before Operation Iraqi Freedom began last year. Iraq also failed to then account for 450 aerial bombs with mustard gas. That, combined with the shells, totaled about 80 tons of unaccounted for mustard gas. It also appears some top Pentagon officials were surprised by the sarin news; they thought the matter was classified, administration officials told Fox News. An official at the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) headquarters in New York said the commission is surprised to hear news of the mustard gas. "If that's the case, why didn't they announce it earlier?" the official asked. The UNMOVIC official said the group needs to know more from the Bush administration before it's possible to determine if this is "old or new stuff. It is known that Iraq used sarin during the Iraq-Iran war, however. Kimmitt said the shell belonged to a class of ordnance that Saddam's government said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war (search). Experts believe both the sarin and mustard gas weapons date back to that time. "It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said. The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he added. The discovery reportedly occurred near Baghdad International Airport. Washington officials say the significance of the find is that some chemical shells do still exist in Iraq, and it's thought that fighters there may be upping their attacks on U.S. forces by using such weapons. The round was an old "binary-type" shell in which two chemicals held in separate sections are mixed after firing to produce sarin, Kimmitt said. He said he believed that insurgents who rigged the artillery shell as a bomb didn't know it contained the nerve agent, and that the dispersal of the nerve agent from such a rigged device was very limited. The shell had no markings. It appears the binary sarin agents didn't mix, which is why there weren't serious injuries from the initial explosion, a U.S. official told Fox News. "Everybody knew Saddam had chemical weapons, the question was, where did they go. Unfortunately, everybody jumped on the offramp and said 'well, because we didn't find them, he didn't have them,'" said Fox News military analyst Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney. "I doubt if it's the tip of the iceberg but it does confirm what we've known ... that he [saddam] had weapons of mass destruction that he used on his own people," Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News. "This does show that the fear we had is very real. Now whether there is much more of this we don't know, Iraq is the size of the state of California." But there were more reasons than weapons to get rid of Saddam, he added. "We considered Saddam Hussein a threat not just because of weapons of mass destruction," Grassley said. Iraqi Scientist: You Will Find More Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border. George said the finding likely will be the first in a series of discoveries of such weapons. "Saddam is the type who will not store those materials in a military warehouse. He's gonna store them either underground, or, as I said, lots of them have gone west to Syria and are being brought back with the insurgencies," George told Fox News. "It is difficult to look in areas that are not obvious to the military's eyes. "I'm sure they're going to find more once time passes," he continued, saying one year is not enough for the survey group or the military to find the weapons. Saddam, when he was in power, had declared that he did in fact possess mustard-gas filled artilleries but none that included sarin. "I think what we found today, the sarin in some ways, although it's a nerve gas, it's a lucky situation sarin detonated in the way it did ... it's not as dangerous as the cocktails Saddam used to make, mixing blister" agents with other gases and substances, George said. Officials: Discovery Is 'Significant' U.S. officials told Fox News that the shell discovery is a "significant" event. Artillery shells of the 155-mm size are as big as it gets when it comes to the ordnance lobbed by infantry-based artillery units. The 155 howitzer can launch high capacity shells over several miles; current models used by the United States can fire shells as far as 14 miles. One official told Fox News that a conventional 155-mm shell could hold as much as "two to five" liters of sarin, which is capable of killing thousands of people under the right conditions in highly populated areas. The Iraqis were very capable of producing such shells in the 1980s but it's not as clear that they continued after the first Gulf War. In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo (search) cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed. Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas. Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly. Not sure quite when this discovery was made (I believe it broke in late 2005 or early 2006), but it certainly proves that this murderous dictator possessed these types of weapons. Also, if you haven't seen it, check this out. http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/sandplanes.asp

It's not necessarily wrong from a legal standpoint, but as a person, it's just plain rude and disrespectful to dishonor the troops who are fighting for you and me alike.

Well said. I agree. You may not agree with the War on Terror, but you should certainly stay behind our President and figures of authority in Government, and most especially the brave men and women serving overseas for our freedom.

Finally, some Bears predictions! [move]GO BEARS![/move]

Congratulations! Nice fish! Wish I could get out on there on the water, but the weather has been too uncooperative.

Man, the Bears defense rocks! How can you say it is too weak? I am calling a close game, but I'm saying that the Bears come up with it.

I'm going with the Bears, 28-24. I just don't see the Colts winning after the way the Bears smashed the Saints.

So Muddy Man has an avatar! Ha ;D