roadwarrior

Chris rocks! Is there anywhere else you could get an idea like that, but here at BassResource.com.? Where in the world did you come up with that? Too cool.

Welcome aboard! Air temperature and sunlight effect very shallow water over a short period of time but has no measurable effect on a body of water in the short run. There is no formula or basis for estimating water temperature on a given day based solely to the air temperature. If you really want to know you are going to have to measure it mechanically.

RoLo, Rating of your last post: ***** (That's suppose to look like five stars). This is a new perspective for me anyhow, I have never thought of it that way.

I don't know, but Guntersville's still one of them! We will all want to hear a detailed report of your adventure. Guntersville in the Spring? Hmm...It can't get too much better than that.

Well, we're getting a little technical and that 's fine. The structure I refer to is in what most people might consider deep water, but "adjacent to" or "next to" even deeper water. My thinking is that the big bass live deep and use the structure as hunting grounds to ambush their prey, staying close and patrolling their territory. This allows a lot of latitude in moving from one depth to another in the water column. So in order to escape, hide from cold fronts and avoid trouble, they are very near their deep water home and they don't have to expend a great deal of energy to get back. As far as leaving their base to hunt, well, I don't think they leave their "territory" but the amount area they roam I suppose would be a function of the concentration of prey. If bass were really smart, they would take up residence next to the ramp where the stocker trout are released!

Wow! Cephkiller, you are certainly paying attention to my posts. Thank you, that is quite a compliment and I will answer you specifically. This is why I am so interested in this deep water/ shallow water discussion. First of all, I have caught several 10+ bass and all but three were caught on Senkos. I fish weightless soft plastics in <12" of water, but in my ponds that might be "deep"". The three I have caught on other lures (Gitzit, Norman Fat Boy and Micro Munch Jig) were caught on structure next to the very deepest water in the pond or lake. Most of my biggest fish, aside from 10+, have been caught on deep, sharply sloping points adjacent to VERY deep water. The rest, with few exceptions were caught either on major drops and ledges or what might appear to be the middle of the lake where an old creek feeds into the old river which is now the lake. Now I'm only addressing largemouth bass in this post, and bigger bass. I have caught lots of four and five pound bass in shallow water on a variey of lures, but I believe they were visiting a feeding area, not spending their lives there. Even when bass are shallow, I think they are aware of an escape to deep water. To the extent that natural lakes in Florida and other areas do not have deep water, then it becomes relative or perhaps when bass do not have an option, these observations do not apply. For the past eighteen months or so, I have caught the majority of my 5+ bass on the Fat Ika in relatively shallow water but again, very near deep water. I fish structure, not cover. I fish deep or at least relatively deep for the water I am fishing. I only fish for big fish and I think that's where they live. Finally, Cephkiller, I do not use Senkos or Fat Ika weighted or on C-rigs. For "deep" presentations I prefer tubes, Kreatures and Kut-Tail, T-rigged. I occasionally use Gitzits on C-rigs, but for the most part I fish GYCB Laminated Lizards. This winter I am fishing jigs almost exclusively and hope to develop a level of confidence in jigs that will make this lure my main deep water presentation. Over the past two months I have only caught six bass on my ponds, but five have been 5+ lbs.

Yea! Getting out there was the right thing to do. Congrats!

Well, I don't think that has ever been questioned, we all know that big bass are caught in shallow water. As a matter of fact, I suspect most big bass are caught in shallow water mainly because that's where most guys fish. Also, after catching bass in shallow water under low light conditions, one might draw the conclusion that they live there all the time. I understand, that is a logical conclusion based on repeated observations. But is it in fact, true?

Raul, What do you think about shallow vs. deep water discussion?

Matt_Fly, That's a home run! All those references makes for quite an interesting reading list. I have a couple of the books and a have read another, but I plan to persue the rest. Thank you. RoLo, It might be interesting for us to find out the specific reference to Johnke's piece on "Deep Water". It may just be another opinion, but depending on whose opinion it is and how they developed this theory, it might be enlightening. This is NOT an "I told you so comment", I had read all that deep water theory somewhere, it is certainly not an original thought on my part. Anyhow, we'll look into it and see how much merit there really is to these statements. I tend to fish deep water and would like to think I'm fishing in the right spots. The fact that big bass are caught in shallow water, as you have experienced, doesn't necessarily negate the deep water hypothesis. The short section on migration is particularly interesting, too. Maybe we'll all learn more as other members comment on articles they have read. I would especially like to see references to specific authors and publications so that I can try to follow up. Ain't this fun?

Duh...

Spring has sprung in Germantown, TN. My daffodils bloomed today! That's about two or three weeks early. It's suppose to be sixty degrees today and warmer tomorrow. I need to win the lottery and go fishing instead of wasting all this time at work!

I don't think I have ever posted in this section of the forum. I don't make any tackle and only visit the site as a moderator. Wow! I guess I've been missing something. Man, I just love this story!

I can answer this as a fact, not just another opinion: Bass have no options on a pond but to search the entire body of water for prey. Until you have fished a pond extensively and determined that there are certain areas that are never productive, every inch has potential. The biggest bass I have ever seen in person, alive or mounted, was caught on what might apear to be the least potentialy productive part of a pond, the Secret Pond. That is rarely the case on a lake. I wholeheartedly concur with the 90/10 rule on lakes, but not on ponds.

Rolo, Point me in the right direction. I would like to read a couple of the telemetry studies you mentioned. I am particulary interested in those that disprove the deep water theory. Also, I would like to know more about daily migration. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Back on topic...If big bass spend all their time in shallow water (when they have another option), then the answer to the question must be that they are not very smart at all.

Let's see if have this right: 1. You built your own rod from scratch and went fishing with it for the first time and caught a 7 lb 7 oz. bass? 2. So, you catch a big momma and take a picture that captures you, the fish and the new rod? 3. It's the end of January, technically about the middle of winter, and you are fishing in shorts and shades on a beautiful day? What are you thinking, flechero? You don't need to go to church anymore...You're already in Heaven!

BassNut, WOW! That's a beauty...Congrats!

Thank you avid...I'm done...

Yeah, I know. I lived in Denver for 17 years and was a season ticket holder for the Nuggets for 5. We drafted Motumbo, the least talented player ever to play in the NBA, but he was BIG. Like a giant redwood tree in the middle of the court. The guy averaged less than 50% on dunk shots! 10% from the field and 20% from the free throw line. When we traded the slug to Atlanta he made the All Star squad, go figure. So, B.A.S.S. fishing and tournaments in general are the same story: Mostly show and a tiny bit of go. Heck, if all fisherman fished like I do, BPS and Cabelas would still be selling lures in the back of a hardware store.

No. It's just to find out who can catch five little bass in a short period of time. It excites the average fisherman to think they can catch little bitty bass in shallow water on BPS lures. Anybody can do it when they are just "out fishing". Those that don't fish tournaments think, "Well, I can do that." NOT! Fishing for little bank runneres and getting lucky with a monster 3 lb bass is about all it takes to win. Sometimes it's four 12 oz bass and a 2 lber. WOW! Sorry guys, it's a whole different mind set.

GobbleDog, Actually you have a smallmouth unique to Florida and southern Georgia. It is a suwannee and is only native to the Suwannee River. Micro Munch Tackle uses this very special species of smallmouth for their logo.

Matt_Fly, Exactly... I was at a seminar at BPS a couple of years ago and Mike Whitten, Inside Line magazine's Mid-South staff writer was the speaker. We probably had fifty or sixty guys in the audience and Mike posed the question, "How many of you fish deep water, fifteen feet or more?" I was the only guy that raised his hand.

Bass barely have a brain, they don't need one. They don't think, they react. They don't "learn", they become conditioned. Big bass are a combination of (1) Genetics, which we don't have in the Midsouth; (2) Food supply, which we do have but not as significant as the protein "popsicles" of California; (3) Environment, which we have 365 days of feeding for some species but largemouth are temperature sensitive, i.e. FL, TX, CA & Mexico. Big bass live in deep water, near or on structure, even though they are sometimes caught in shallow water and cover. If they are feeding they might be caught shallow, but if there is an option they will be deeper. If a lure/bait comes near them in deep water they may strike. Bass are opportunistic, the only reason most bass fishermen don't catch more big bass is because (1) they are the rarest in the pyramid; (2) your're fishing in the wrong place!

Well Mattlures, you may not lose the argument, but you won't win if you're talking about the "show". Little bitty fish caught over some artificially designated time period, usually in the worst part of the day for average bankbeaters...The Classic, fish you and I wouldn't even tell anybody we caught... Going nuts over a 12 pound bag, NO! somebody went 14.7! KVD catches his all time PB, second on the tour, all time...Well, way above average, but 11-3...Come on... Unfortunately I still shovel coal all week. When it's MY TIME, I don't need the Thrill of Victory and The Agony of Defeat...All I want to do is catch BIG fish. Your guys don't count anyhow, all they catch are GIANT BASS, they spend all their time REALLY fishing for the next World Record...How boring.

Yep, that's it. The technique was developed at Dale Hollow. With the float n'fly you are basically fishing for suspended bass. Your jig needs to be close to their depth, but they will come up some for the lure. My understanding is that they usually won't go down to strike. Once you locate smallmouth you can usually catch a bunch since they tend to school. Dale Hollow is a very deep, clearwater reservior and that may be an important consideration.