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I'm getting a late start, heading out on yak soon. Any tips this late and cold, I've never fished past Nov 1 before pretty much. I got a small red black crank tied on, umbrella rig for the first time, Ned rig, and a jig, and a jerkbait.

Also it means they make more money as people will purchase things not on sale with things that are on sale... and then a week later they put those things on sale so people who buy those things will then buy other things not on sale. It's a marketing ploy not in favor of the customer. This is why people steal stuff from Walmart

I've got a pretty light yak, looking at getting into swimbaits to try to break 7 pounds (those fish don't exist around me but at least I won't be catching anything). Can one get enough of a Hooksett from a light yak to actually stick a fish with a beefy hook? Have to use braid to make up for the extra give? 8 inch savage gear line through, 8 inch savage gear pulse tail rtf, 6 inch line through savge gear, 6inch magdraft(regular and freestyle), s-waver 200 and the littler one. Don't bother with them and just catch fish instead? Risk throwing them from shore? Do they work at night? Any advice on any of the lures listed? Any swimbait advice at all? Have the Dobyns Fury 795 and Lews Super Duty 300 - line recommendations (considering yak, lots of vegetation in my waters)?

I realized I have a savage gear pulse tail trout RTF, it's an 8 inch slow sink, but I haven't even used it yet. Not sure I wanna now get a huff68 I also won't use. Maybe I'd actually use it since it feels more dialed back. Maybe I'll grab a magdraft instead?

I'm considering getting a Hudd 68, I fish more weedy ponds than big lakes, but have one lake I fish a few times a year pretty clean bottom that has produced half of my 5#+ bass. Which color and rod? Anybody try the perch color? Looks nice

Think I might hate you just a little bit... nice fish man 😉 I'm still so torn... if it's the trailer hook movement that helps (along with the distance behind the head and blade obviously) What about a set up so the hook is free swinging well behind the blade and the skirt is just short of the hook? (Like a trailer hook would be)

Here's a wrench for this system- All of your preferred trailer hook sizes? Different between spinner buzz and chatter?

The scientific method is reliable, more people should apply it I agree.

I've seen videos of rod sensitivity being measured by calculations of vibrations through the blank. The other perspective, that sensitivity is "feeling a fish bite" (in regards to a longer rod creating more opposing force) couldn't measure those minute pulls. A 4ft rod or an 8ft rod if the opposing force doesn't have enough strength to alter the position of the rod tip then that theory won't measure sensitivity. Now send minute irregular pulses through those rods (dragging over a boulder or stump or gravel or sand) and the crisper lighter carbon fiber blank will transmit that information more readily. Think conductor vs insulator, a longer fiberglass rod will insulate those pulses while a carbon fiber rod would better let them pass through. Because I'm pretty sure we could all save some loot if the opposite were true. I'll try one of those 8'x salt water rods at Walmart to check myself, I'll drag it on the floor there and see what I feel.

No apologies needed homie, sometimes the natural discourse of a thread lends itself to parallel conversation. It All still relates somehow, otherwise it wouldn't have come up. I'm happy to hear what you all have to say about anything fishing. Jig+blade(above jighead)= spinnerbait Jig+blade(on head)= chatterbait Jig+blade(blade on water surface)=buzzbait Jig+blade(beneath head)=underpin Jig+swimbait trailer=swimjig Jig-skirt+straight tail worm=shakyhead Jig+creaturebait=jig (explain that paradox) Jig-skirt+creaturebait=pegged t rig Jig+a few shots=me lettin my Irish side out The jig really might be the most versatile lure there is. Doesn't that apply to every technique? I mean some days a spinnerbait slays, some it's just lame, one day they're hitting the crankbait next they must have voted it off the island. @LrgmouthShad mine are already dark brown and water levels are up, I'll hit you back in the summer, but that's definitely gnarly bro. It's extra fun when the lilies matt up right against the milfoil and there's a chunk of the two all blended and extra nasty.

Dude I'll post a pic, I yak in a place where each swipe of the paddle lifts and swirls pounds of the stuff. I don't usually get nervous on the water, but the thought has crossed my mind if I ever tip into that pond I might get so wrapped up so quick it might weigh my vest down and I'll be nappin with the fishes

@LrgmouthShad this wasn't about my Kistler, that was just an example. This was to get a feel for the community's take on sensitivity given those 2 definitions and 2 rod choices. I wasn't trying to learn what sensitivity is, I was trying to learn what sensitivity is to you. I do appreciate all the votes and the posts, feels like we're all pretty much on the same page. Seems like nobody believes a longer fiberglass rod is more sensitive than a shorter carbon fiber rod, the angling community can unite on some things Now straight braid or leader in the other hand 😉

Sure, I agree, your all right about the wrong question. If the question is "what's more important regarding fishing and understanding what you feel while fishing, the rod or the angler's experience and ability to interpret what they feel" then yeah you're 100% correct. But let's say the question is which is a more efficient more affective tool to the angler that is trying to feel things: a fat heavy long fiberglass rod or a crisp shorter high modulus latest carbon fiber rod? Imagine a person has hearing loss, which device would be more helpful in providing access to sound: holding a metal cone to their ear or the newest most technologically advanced hearing aid. The answer isn't "he doesn't understand the language" it's either "metal cone" or "hearing aid" So which is the better listening device "heavy long fiberglass rod" or "short crisp Carbon fiber rod" NFC manufactures a blank they call the "xray" because "it's like you can see what's happening under the water" I get the feeling they mean it's sensitive regardless of who's using it. The first nice rod I ever got was a Kistler, I had to relearn what I was feeling on the other end because I was setting the hook into blades of grass. Could never feel the grass like that before, that was a whole new level of sensitivity for me. Since I switched to that high modulus carbon fiber I had greater access to what was happening on the other end of the line, I grew in understanding and improved in interpreting what I was feeling. There's another thread here about spinnerbaits, it mentions how important it is to "feel when something is different "which is a sentiment we've all heard in fishing. Being able to feel is just behind the ability to understand what you feel in terms of importance, because if you're the most perceptive angler who can interpret everything perfectly but you can only fish with an elastic tied to a sponge you're not going to get the chance to interpret and use those skills because you won't feel a thing. Anyway, I was just wondering what was more sensitive between those two options in the poll, that's all.

@12poundbass @Jigfishn10 fireball and cream soda is like a liquid cinnamon bun... A quick shot of fireball and Rum Chata is like a hot cinnamon bun. You and your wives have been warned... It's freakin delicious

Edited to make explicit, if more explicit content is need please ask - I can add links etc.

I'll add details I suppose haha

@Tennessee Boy just to clarify, you think the only difference between a $600 carbon fiber rod from Loomis/Shimano and a $35 fiberglass carbon composite Ugly Stik is nil, it's all just in our heads? Maybe I'll edit to add clarity, what details would be helpful for you to decide? The fact of it being bottom contact? What is ambiguous for you? And the question is which *better* defines... so if it's both great, now which one is 51% of the equation?

Please pick between the two and cast your vote if you comment. Feel free to vote and then clarify/elaborate/add your own definition of the sensitivity you mean when referencing rod sensitivity. Appreciate all your input! Edit to add ... If your buying a rod to feel a subtle take whether finesse Ned rig bite or a quick inhale and spit of a t rig is a $600 high modulus carbon fiber 7 foot rod more or less sensitive than a $35 Conposite Ugly Stik?

Doing what? Depth? Hate being on the north shore!

I respect both your opinions, but drag a jig outside on the pavement with any rod at all. You'll feel vibrations, not the rod loading under resistance. It will be very fine cyclic impulses. The definition being "to feel a bite" is just shy of circular reasoning, most anglers mean the ability to feel a bite when talking about sensitivity. You're right about the way a rod acts as a lever, advantage for the fish no question. A longer rod is more sensitive to an opposing force (in the action of the lever), but not to oscillating blank feel. We feel like the fish is pulling harder, but we don't feel a fish "not pull" as in just bump or swipe a lure. If we polled a million anglers, a very small percentage would define sensitivity as "a fish pulling against you" (maybe none, I've only heard that in that other site and now you two) but the vibration which helps you determine bottom composition, is this a log or a fish take, feel a spinnerbait blade. Or to "feel a bite." Sometimes a bite is literally a fish just ever so slightly lifting a lure and chucking it. That would potentially create a one cycle of disturbance in the rod without creating enough force to feel the resistance or cause deflection regardless of the length of the rod. That is the average anglers take on sensitivity, not feeling resistance, but feeling one or more cycles of vibration. So when defining sensitivity let's stick to the most common definition and not give into the the fallacy of ambiguity or equivocation. Maybe this sentiment hasn't been shared on the other site, or at least not with the proponent of this "new definition of sensitivity." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sensitive Most anglers, when referencing sensitivity, mean something along the lines of the shared understanding of the term. Not some other definition. I'd say more specifically definition 1, 2, 3, and 3.d. I particularly like the example given for 3.d ie: sensitive scales. A rod is like a scale that can measure vibration, or its at least the device used to transfer the vibration and we measure it with our 🧠 He's only right when you follow a definition that nobody else means.

@Catt I'm not sure I understand what you mean, what would be changing if the bass hasn't actually hit it yet? For all of you who use a trailer hook, do you ever fish a swim jig? Just seems like a concern about short strikes would carry over to swim jigs where I've never heard of a trailer hook being used.

I'll give it a try and let you know haha, I'm doubly using the devcon 2t as a jig head top coat so figured I'd try it for marbling. I got a cheap rod I'm going to test it on. I'll post results when I get the chance

I'm not the type to name names my man, but if you're in *you're in* Thanks for clarifying spoon. @Delaware Valley Tackle I apologize for recalling incorrectly, I stand corrected it wasn't epoxy. This is why I love when @spoonplugger1 posts, dude just always drops knowledge. Don't ever leave us spoon, the game needs you! I feel you bro, just knowing Gary Loomis is involved draws me in. I wonder if the guy who used to own the site ever worked with Gary, definitely one of the inspirations for me why I started building. The old owner sounds like he's worked with just about everyone, he's gotta be like 100 years old lol. As for the other guy who owns it now, I don't know enough about him, but from his posts I can see what you're saying. I've been thinking of creating an account over there to get in on the action, but I've seen how some of the new comers have been treated. Makes me leary of posting, I'm still pretty new to building. Even though I have some years under my belt I don't have many builds yet because of time and life. But even the old owner can be a way sometimes, seen him be pretty curt with people. On a third forum some people said he was a jerk, mentioned there was some builder beef over the decades. Some other builder group forum thing and I guess it was pretty nasty. Made it sound like he went out of his way to really make things hard for that forum and the Clemens clan. I'm sure he's contributed greatly to the building community, like I said I'm pretty sure he's a dinosaur and been there since just about the beginning. And I have seen some good things from him, but sometimes he's just way off and won't listen to reason. He has a theory about rod sensitivity that is just utterly ridiculous. Says that no matter what a longer rod is more sensitive than a shorter rod. He says that vibration and feel have nothing to do with a rod's sensitivity, a fiberglass rod that is longer than a high modulus carbon fiber rod will be more sensitive. For all he's done for building this is just a ridiculous thought and flies in the face of Gary's and many others' contributions to carbon fiber and blank improvement. Take two different lengths of a metal poles and clank them with a hammer or something. You'll feel the vibrations more strongly on the end of the shorter one. No way an 8 foot fiberglass rod is even comparable in sensitivity to a high modulus carbon fiber rod that's 5'6. Throw a 3/8 spinnerbait bait on both of those and tell me what you feel in each. Guaranteed to feel nothing in that longer "more sensitive rod." I'll keep stalking that forum for now, sometimes he says something that makes sense. But lots of other guys on there have some good stuff to say so I might end up joining. But also there's a lot of rod builder groups on Facebook with a combined thousands of active members - that other forum has like 10-20 at any given time it seems. Plus the group here is solid, never seen that mob mentality here. All the dudes who have posted in this thread have are awesome!

Now you're gettin it 🤑 @Chris Catignani the internet can do that, turn nice people ugly, and some of the nice people just don't jump in the mud puddle. I've had some very pleasant exchanges with builders since joining this little community about a year ago, and connected with some pretty good dudes, yourself and mick included. I couple others from the tar pit... I mean other forum, were good dudes too - surprisingly kind and generous. I'd love to go to a convention, considered trying to find a way to make one happen up here in MA since they're usually down south, Midwest, or west coast. The best rod builder in the world holds an international rod building expo every year, maybe this is where he gets to share his brilliant ideas that have become the rods of the new world order. He has single handedly contributed more to the fishing rod industry than anyone else ya know. I sure hope I can grow up to be like him one day

@Chris Catignani I hear you my dude, I'm not knockin his idea to do double feet if its desired for appearance- just want him to be aware of all that comes along with it. I'm sure you expiremented and learned through different building projects. But if someone had told you what the results would be you would have more opportunity to make an informed decision. You're right, the best answer to "why do that" is "because I wanted to." Like I quoted you on before, I can dig it. And I agree about the feedback some people give, generally unhelpful and sometimes hurtful. Either way unnecessary. There's another forum that's run by the most impactful and best rodbuilder that ever lived. He says it's the best place for rod builders of all levels to join. But I've seen people join, post a few times, and essentially get chased away by pitchforks and torches. There's a few really solid dudes over there, but also some real jerks. It's the internet, so that's a little expected, but in such a niche interest you'd think there'd be less politics... NOPE. It's weirdly a microcosm of our typical political and general American culture. And to answer your question - I think Shimano did some testing. Maybe you don't, but the Shimano Poison Adrena is 140% more sensitive 😉 I get the feeling Mick is gonna hit you wit the TNF. IDK if you put any credence into that, but something is being measured. What the implications are we could question, but he's measuring some affect of the added weight with different components etc.