Plenty of info available on tuning but lipless crankbaits seem to never be mentioned. Is the trajectory of lipless crankbaits determined by other factors vs line tie or does the line tie affect how it runs? 

 

When I was out this morning i noticed that some tend to want to go sideways (red eye shad) while others prefer to run upright (rattl trap) which made me wonder if lipless lures get tuned. 

I think the line tie's probably going to be the largest factor in how true a lipless tracks by simple virtue of the fact that there's not much else about it that can be changed or bent/twisted out of alignment.

 

I am curious, though, as you mentioned two brands specifically. In your experience, does a red eye shad always track to the side? Does it always favor the same side? Does that become more pronounced with use/wear?

4 minutes ago, galyonj said:

I am curious, though, as you mentioned two brands specifically. In your experience, does a red eye shad always track to the side? Does it always favor the same side? Does that become more pronounced with use/wear?

I actually spent more time than I should have this morning checking this and it was interesting to see that certain Red Eye Shads would track to a specific side. When fished straight, they would always go either left or right but if the rod was moved to the opposite direction, the lure would also shift sides. 

 

I tested with 5 Red Eyes total. Some that began very far off to one side I was able to get more centered but not by adjusting the line tie but the hook hanger instead. I don't believe wear makes a difference as they varied from 3yrs old to brand new.

 

Of the Red Eyes I tested all ran tilted to one side. The rest of the lipless: Rat l Trap, Xcalibur, Rapala all seemed to have a more upright movement.

Back when I was fishing tournaments, I kept a box of "tournament only" Rattle Traps.  These Traps out fished all others by a mile.  Even when the finish was completely worn off and there was nothing left but plastic, they continued to produce.  They looked like they had been dragged behind a truck.  I attributed this to the vibrations these lures gave off.   Some lipless crankbaits have more or different vibrations which make them more appealing to fish. The sound chamber could be thicker, the number of loose beads could be more or less or the lure itself would run differently.  How do you tell a good one from the others?  Fish them all and keep the good ones.  

 

It is possible to change the retrieve angle of a lure by bending the line tie slightly to the left or the right.

I just have to ask this question. What was the reel speed or ipt of your equipment? Most people like to "burn" them in or they have a yo-yo pattern retrieve. I have learned to pay attention to my lure speed to make the presentation more effective with crankbaits but I am still learning. Any thoughts?

Great topic.  There are many ways you can fish a lipless crankbait. Burning works well when fish are inactive and you wish to attract a reaction strike.  In Florida, this is normally in the winter months. It also takes a toll on your body.  The arthritis in my hands is a testament to years of burning a Rattle Trap.  It helps if you jerk the lure every 6 feet or so.  This causes the lure to momentarily deflect and is similar to bouncing the lure off cover.  I have seen days when slowly dragging a Trap was the only way to get a strike.  In deep water, you can YoYo a lipless crankbait like a jigging spoon.  Keep experimenting to see what the fish want.

 

The biggest problem I have with lipless crankbaits is keeping the fish hooked.  The weight of the lure is easy for a bass to throw.  I have lost some huge bass this way. I change all my hooks. Never let a fighting bass get slack line on a lipless crankbait.  Ask me how I know?

1 hour ago, Captain Phil said:

Great topic.  There are many ways you can fish a lipless crankbait. Burning works well when fish are inactive and you wish to attract a reaction strike.  In Florida, this is normally in the winter months. It also takes a toll on your body.  The arthritis in my hands is a testament to years of burning a Rattle Trap.  It helps if you jerk the lure every 6 feet or so.  This causes the lure to momentarily deflect and is similar to bouncing the lure off cover.  I have seen days when slowly dragging a Trap was the only way to get a strike.  In deep water, you can YoYo a lipless crankbait like a jigging spoon.  Keep experimenting to see what the fish want.

 

The biggest problem I have with lipless crankbaits is keeping the fish hooked.  The weight of the lure is easy for a bass to throw.  I have lost some huge bass this way. I change all my hooks. Never let a fighting bass get slack line on a lipless crankbait.  Ask me how I know?

Swap out the trebles for inline hooks and you'll be pleased with the results. 

 

33 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Never let a fighting bass get slack line on a lipless crankbait.  Ask me how I know?

Yeah, I don't gotta ask. Everything that bites any plug I throw gets to ski back.

30 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Great topic.  There are many ways you can fish a lipless crankbait. Burning works well when fish are inactive and you wish to attract a reaction strike.  In Florida, this is normally in the winter months. It also takes a toll on your body.  The arthritis in my hands is a testament to years of burning a Rattle Trap.  It helps if you jerk the lure every 6 feet or so.  This causes the lure to momentarily deflect and is similar to bouncing the lure off cover.  I have seen days when slowly dragging a Trap was the only way to get a strike.  In deep water, you can YoYo a lipless crankbait like a jigging spoon.  Keep experimenting to see what the fish want.

 

The biggest problem I have with lipless crankbaits is keeping the fish hooked.  The weight of the lure is easy for a bass to throw.  I have lost some huge bass this way. I change all my hooks. Never let a fighting bass get slack line on a lipless crankbait.  Ask me how I know?

That's great information there. So bigger hooks or heavier hooks. And do you think that you  can retrieve that lure too fast and make it ride on its side. 

1 minute ago, rgasr63 said:

That's great information there. So bigger hooks or heavier hooks. And do you think that you  can retrieve that lure too fast and make it ride on its side. 

Not to speak for @Captain Phil, but I don't change my hooks because I want to change something in the lure's behavior on the retrieve. I change the hooks because a whole lot of crankbaits have garbage hooks out of the box.

 

You can change the hooks to get a lure to do things like suspend deeper and stuff like that, but that's not my goal.

1 hour ago, rgasr63 said:

I just have to ask this question. What was the reel speed or ipt of your equipment? Most people like to "burn" them in or they have a yo-yo pattern retrieve. I have learned to pay attention to my lure speed to make the presentation more effective with crankbaits but I am still learning. Any thoughts?

Good question

 

So when tuning i usually run them as fast as I can crank on a 7:1 reel. All lipless crankbaits would run on the side at that speed but at a regular reel speed, only the Red Eyes would. Even at a slow speed, the Red Eyes seemed favor a side even if only by a little.

 

As far as hooks are concerned, I change them on all except those that will be yo yo'd over rock as I'd rather bend a hook out than lose a lure. This retrieve is where I have found the Red Eyes to be much better than others for me. 

12 minutes ago, galyonj said:

Not to speak for @Captain Phil, but I don't change my hooks because I want to change something in the lure's behavior on the retrieve. I change the hooks because a whole lot of crankbaits have garbage hooks out of the box.

 

You can change the hooks to get a lure to do things like suspend deeper and stuff like that, but that's not my goal.

That's sounds good too. So it is a stronger hook. I have some of these lipless baits I just don't catch as much as I think I should. So on a lipless can you burn it too fast?

Just now, rgasr63 said:

That's sounds good too. So it is a stronger hook. I have some of these lipless baits I just don't catch as much as I think I should. So on a lipless can you burn it too fast?

Maybe stronger, but what I change them for is to change the shape of the hook. I switch to short-shank EWG treble hooks like these. I've never had a fish come off once I get them stuck, and the shorter shank keeps the plug from getting tangled up in itself -- especially because I use snaps on my cranking rig. Throwing crankbaits triggers my ADHD, because if I'm not getting bit, I'll throw the whole box in about 15 minutes.

^ fronts get upgraded to one size larger - short shank EWG reds on lipless for me and to short shank EWG black on squarebills (the color is a personal thing) 

29 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Good question

 

So when tuning i usually run them as fast as I can crank on a 7:1 reel. All lipless crankbaits would run on the side at that speed but at a regular reel speed, only the Red Eyes would. Even at a slow speed, the Red Eyes seemed favor a side even if only by a little.

 

As far as hooks are concerned, I change them on all except those that will be yo yo'd over rock as I'd rather bend a hook out than lose a lure. This retrieve is where I have found the Red Eyes to be much better than others for me. 

Thanks for the explanation. I'm gonna check the ones I got out for that maybe that is why I don't catch much on lipless 

48 minutes ago, galyonj said:

I change the hooks because a whole lot of crankbaits have garbage hooks out of the box.

Exactly.  I use Gamakatsu trebles. Lipless crankbaits are some of the most effective bass lures ever made.  Some of the best Florida anglers I ever fished with threw them almost exclusively.  Specific colors get hot once in a while.  There was a time on the Harris Chain when a chrome green back Rattle Trap would catch more fish than any other color.  On dark days a dark colored lure works better.  These days, I seem to do better with more natural colors.   I fished a Rattle Trap with braid for a few years believing I would get a better hook set.  When a big bass hits on braid, it's a jolt.  I went back to 20 pound mono because I lost too many big fish.   

6 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

When a big bass hits, it's a jolt.  I went back to mono because I lost too many big fish.  

I don't know what it is, but something about lipless cranks just makes bass...angry. And they hit it like they are. I fish them on 12lb McCoy copolymer.

 

My most productive color, far and away, is one I can't find anymore. Academy's house brand had a color called Green Terror, and now I'm out and it makes me very sad. I caught my PB on that color.

If I had only one lure and I had to catch a bass, it would be a Rattle Trap.  Like any lure, you have to stick with it.  Winning anglers are exceptional at a few things and that's what they do.  

10 minutes ago, galyonj said:

I don't know what it is, but something about lipless cranks just makes bass...angry. And they hit it like they are. I fish them on 12lb McCoy copolymer.

 

My most productive color, far and away, is one I can't find anymore. Academy's house brand had a color called Green Terror, and now I'm out and it makes me very sad. I caught my PB on that color.

Do you fish all sizes on 12lb? 

 

I tried fishing 1/2 oz'ers but was losing too many so i stepped up to 15lb for 1/2 and above.

1 hour ago, garroyo130 said:

Do you fish all sizes on 12lb? 

 

I tried fishing 1/2 oz'ers but was losing too many so i stepped up to 15lb for 1/2 and above.

Yessir, I do. Everything that's ≤ ⅝ oz goes on the same setup. 5.6:1 reel with 12lb McCoy copoly through a 7' medium/moderate rod. Next year I wanna get another rod with just a hair more backbone, but I still want a pretty slow tip.

 

The reel speed is pretty slow for this, but it works for me because I'm unable to slow myself down.

i was disappointed every 6th sense i bought i had to try to tune. most went unsuccessful. all of them went one way or the other on their side.  even reeling slow or yoyo.

Great information in this thread. Thanks all for sharing.

So I'm not the only one that has Red Eye Shads that run to the side when retreived fast.

There was mention made of tuning the hook holder instead of the line tie, thanks for that. I'll have to try it.

2 hours ago, Bazoo said:

Great information in this thread. Thanks all for sharing.

So I'm not the only one that has Red Eye Shads that run to the side when retreived fast.

There was mention made of tuning the hook holder instead of the line tie, thanks for that. I'll have to try it.

Red Eyes don’t like a burner retrieve, they’re best at a slow or yo yo retrieve. The Cordell Spot is money when burning it, but lays on its side and plays dead when you try to yo yo it. 
 

The best middle of the road retrieve I ever found (which they heard that I liked them and immediately discontinued production) was the SK Diamond Shad.

Every lipless design has it’s own quirks, you just have to experiment to find their retrieve speed and abilities. 

26 minutes ago, ElGuapo928 said:

Red Eyes don’t like a burner retrieve, they’re best at a slow or yo yo retrieve. The Cordell Spot is money when burning it, but lays on its side and plays dead when you try to yo yo it. 
 

The best middle of the road retrieve I ever found (which they heard that I liked them and immediately discontinued production) was the SK Diamond Shad.

Every lipless design has it’s own quirks, you just have to experiment to find their retrieve speed and abilities. 

Thanks, I'm figuring that out.

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

Thanks, I'm figuring that out.

Some others I really like that you may find worth a look are: 

 

6th Sense Quake Suspending - great for when the fish aren’t really chasing. 
 

Spro Aruku Shad - noses down more than most, probably the best of them all in heavy weeds/brush

Ima suspending Vibe 70 - suspends a couple inches below the surface, burn it over a grass bed then pause and hold on. 
 

Heddon/Whopper Stopper Bayou Boogie: Old, but common enough to find for a couple bucks. Really tight wiggle, gives them something different to look at. Stock hooks suck, put some newer EWG trebles on it.

 

Cordell Spot Minnow - long and skinny, erratic and wide wiggle. Long discontinued but still easy to find for a couple bucks. These were a monster to throw when chasing shad boils.